C2C - Religions discussions and ideas

[Dancing Hoskuld]

This thread is for discussions on the implementation of religions in C2C.

Note I will not be changing food/hammer/gold production of any one religion unless you can come up with equivalent changes to all the other religions. Each religion (except a couple of the new ones) are equally OP and exploitable in their differing ways.

 

[BlueGenie]

Is there a way to possibly reduce the total benefits from religious temples/cathedrals/wonders for every other religious temple/cathedral/wonder from other religions?
Right now it's layer upon layer of goody stuff with every extra religion present in a city.

Cheers

 

[EldrinFal]

Is there a way to possibly reduce the total benefits from religious temples/cathedrals/wonders for every other religious temple/cathedral/wonder from other religions?
Right now it's layer upon layer of goody stuff with every extra religion present in a city.

Cheers

You mean other than how some benefits apply only when that religion is the state religion?

 

[BlueGenie]

Yes. Most benefits are still there even if not State Religion.

 

[EldrinFal]

Yes. Most benefits are still there even if not State Religion.

Offhand I can't recall if the game keeps track of each % of a population that follows a particular religion in each city. If so, I suppose that could be connected to the buildings, where the religious buildings provided bonuses according to the % of people in the city who follow that religion.

So if only 5% of the people were Hellenistic, the Hellenism buildings there would provide a much smaller bonus than say the Jewish buildings when 95% of the population is Jewish.

 

[Koshling]

Offhand I can't recall if the game keeps track of each % of a population that follows a particular religion in each city. If so, I suppose that could be connected to the buildings, where the religious buildings provided bonuses according to the % of people in the city who follow that religion.

So if only 5% of the people were Hellenistic, the Hellenism buildings there would provide a much smaller bonus than say the Jewish buildings when 95% of the population is Jewish.

This is an interesting idea, though its hard to control so we run the risk of adding detail and complexity that isn't really usefully influencable.

 

[BlueGenie]

I thought it was a simple division for how many are of a certain religion. So 2 religions would be 50% each, 3; 33%, 4; 25% each, and so on. If it's not and any changes to religion buildings are made then the question becomes "what can a leader do to influence this number?".

 

[EldrinFal]

I thought it was a simple division for how many are of a certain religion. So 2 religions would be 50% each, 3; 33%, 4; 25% each, and so on. If it's not and any changes to religion buildings are made then the question becomes "what can a leader do to influence this number?".

Actively in-game I would think certain Civics that affect religious spread and State Religion would be one, and of course, Inquisitions. It would add some strategy I think to religion, as Koshling said.

That also made me think that maybe a missionary should have a "Preach" command similar to what the Spy can do, basically having him camp in a city for a number of turns to improve chances of actually founding a religion there.

 

[Nevets_]

I know a number of people don't use Rev, but one idea could be to make non-state religious buildings add +local instability on top of what you get from just the non-state religions, (unless you have Secular). So two or three religions in a city is OK, but 10 and it will tear itself apart with riots, etc.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I know a number of people don't use Rev, but one idea could be to make non-state religious buildings add +local instability on top of what you get from just the non-state religions, (unless you have Secular). So two or three religions in a city is OK, but 10 and it will tear itself apart with riots, etc.

What about Free religion?

 

[Koshling]

I know a number of people don't use Rev, but one idea could be to make non-state religious buildings add +local instability on top of what you get from just the non-state religions, (unless you have Secular). So two or three religions in a city is OK, but 10 and it will tear itself apart with riots, etc.

How would you prevent the spread? Missionaries would become devastating weapons of war. If we did that we'd have to also add soe means to 'purge' religions from cities too.

 

[Nevets_]

I'm talking about adding +instability to temples/monasteries, not religions themselves. I'm pretty sure non-state religions already give you instability, I don't want to change that, just make it more dangerous to build all different kinds of temples to cash in on all the +. The exception would be if you have the Secular Civic, which would non have a penalty for non-state religion buildings, so Secular might see more use.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'm talking about adding +instability to temples/monasteries, not religions themselves. I'm pretty sure non-state religions already give you instability, I don't want to change that, just make it more dangerous to build all different kinds of temples to cash in on all the +. The exception would be if you have the Secular Civic, which would non have a penalty for non-state religion buildings, so Secular might see more use.

I thought we had removed the + from non state religion buildings. You can + on all monasteries from a civic. The point to the monastery is the science output at that period of time. Not sure why their going obsolete was moved back.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well... it was silly to suddenly lose a ton of research all in one hit like that... the way their obsoletion works now is much smoother.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well... it was silly to suddenly lose a ton of research all in one hit like that... the way their obsoletion works now is much smoother.

No thy all still go at the same time.

I also checked, most of the + you get from temples is state religion based. However some got missed.

The move from requiring 3 temples to 1 for some cathedrals does mean that they are probably giving too much. Should we go back to requiring 2or 3 temples. Or should we put a population requirement on them?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm a strong believer in a 1 to 1 ratio on cathedrals to temples but perhaps making them only accessable at higher populations (officially one of the definitions of a city in our real world is that it has a cathedral... lol)

I also rarely build them unless I'm struggling with happiness or on a cultural warfront because their benefits are meaningless to a city that doesn't need them and they aren't exactly a cheap build.

Ok, so maybe I haven't gotten far enough in the game or as clearly identified for myself where monasteries lose their umph but yeah its a big hit nationwide. Perhaps something should be an upgrade path replacement for them so you don't lose that research but you show how scientific dogma replaces them entirely (all of them upgrade into the one larger study building that has say a 50% research bonus where some cities will lose % from replacing all the monasteries and others will gain)

Another really frustrating thing about the loss of the monastery is that it hedges you into a particular civic unless you get them all built somewhere before they obsolete. Perhaps the replacement building could also allow for the production of any kind of missionary of any religion that exists in that city?

 

[EldrinFal]

How would you prevent the spread? Missionaries would become devastating weapons of war. If we did that we'd have to also add soe means to 'purge' religions from cities too.

Isn't that what the Inquisitions do?

Also, some Civics prevent non-State religion spread.

I'm a strong believer in a 1 to 1 ratio on cathedrals to temples but perhaps making them only accessable at higher populations (officially one of the definitions of a city in our real world is that it has a cathedral... lol)

I also rarely build them unless I'm struggling with happiness or on a cultural warfront because their benefits are meaningless to a city that doesn't need them and they aren't exactly a cheap build.

Ok, so maybe I haven't gotten far enough in the game or as clearly identified for myself where monasteries lose their umph but yeah its a big hit nationwide. Perhaps something should be an upgrade path replacement for them so you don't lose that research but you show how scientific dogma replaces them entirely (all of them upgrade into the one larger study building that has say a 50% research bonus where some cities will lose % from replacing all the monasteries and others will gain)

Another really frustrating thing about the loss of the monastery is that it hedges you into a particular civic unless you get them all built somewhere before they obsolete. Perhaps the replacement building could also allow for the production of any kind of missionary of any religion that exists in that city?

There is the possibility to connect Cathedrals to Cultural levels of a city. Or even... connect it to a certain religious % in a city. Probably BOTH. So at a certain cultural level and with enough of a people "needing" a Cathedral, it can be built. Some strategy and work would be required, but Cathedrals offer really nice bonuses.

And I actually don't think Monasteries should ever go obsolete. Though if there was an inquisition in a city to remove a religion, I would expect any building for that religion to be destroyed.

 

[strategyonly]

Only thing i dont like with the most recent version(s) is that NOW, the AI is strictly bee-lining for each and EVERY religion they can get their hands on, and forgetting about the other techs along the way?

Heck in my five most recent games i am over 12-15 techs BEHIND getting Christianity, which i used to get pretty easily before? Now its almost impossible to get ANY religions what so ever And the hording of religions is just terrible.

Then once they get a religion, they bee-line strictly for the most modern weapons available . Which means i haven't even gotten to gunpowder tech and they have Infantry already (Koshling)

 

[BlueGenie]

About Monasteries: What about not having them go obsolete but at certain tech reduce their +tech%? -5% on one tech and the rest on another tech? The +1health from a civic means that once one goes away from said civic most won't have that +health anyway (only the few that have it inherent will still give health bonus).

Cheers

 

[Hydromancerx]

*removed*