C2C - Tips and Tricks

[Yudishtira]

Thanks, it does appear so. I also noticed that there is an option now to add them back in, in the "Custom Game" options, so that seems to confirm it.

Ok - just to clarify now that I understand this. The game start option "No city limits from civics" is on by default. When it is on the in-game civics screen says nothing about the city limits and unhappiness penalties that we're used to seeing on several Government civics (Chiefdom, Despotism, Monarchy, Republic I think). However, they are still there (or possibly slightly worse), so if the above option is off, they show up as normal.

 

[raxo2222]

Map resources in SVN are revealed in following order:

All plants are revealed at Gathering (X2), land animals at Scavenging (X3) and water animals at Trap Fishing (X10).
Their enable tech sometimes is on or not very far off from reveal tech. and sometimes you need few eras - I think record belongs to Rubber with Enable at Alchemy.

For comparison reveal techs for minerals and others are spread out (not counting off Earth map resources):
Hard Hammer Percussion (X5) - Copper Ore, Fine Clay, Marble, Obsidian, Stone
Carving (X8) - Jade
Drying (X11) - Salt
Barter (X12) - Amber, Gold Ore, Silver Ore, Turquoise

Mining (X22) - Diamond, Lead Ore, Rubies, Sapphire, Sulphur
Masonry (X24) - Natron
Metal Casting (X25) - Iron Ore, Platinum Ore
Bronze Working (X29) - Tin Ore

Coal Mining (X48) - Coal
Scientific Method (X55) - Natural Gas, Oil
Geology (X57) - Fossil Beds, Geode, Manganese
Archeology (X58) - Ancient Relics

Industrialism (X72) - Bauxite Ore
Advanced Metallurgy (X73) - Titanium Ore
Quantum Physics (X74) - Uranium
Modern Seismology (X81) - Geothermal Energy, Methane Ice
Volcanology (X82) - Geothermal Sea Vent

This means by time you reach Tribalism you already see where all animals and plants are.
Also you will see resources revealed by Hard Hammer Percussion and Carving.
Drying and Barter doesn't have to be researched if you are going straight for tribalism.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Natron should probably be moved to the same place a Salt and Geothermal Energy should probably be renamed Geothermal Vent and moved Animism so we can use it for The Oracle and other religious buildings. Iron, Tin and Lead Ores probably should be moved to Barter as well. There are a group of wonders Hydro and I wanted to add in but were not able to at the time which would require these resources to be visible but not available for trade.

Drying and Barter doesn't have to be researched if you are going straight for tribalism.

FYI doesn't is singular, you should be using the plural form don't since you have two items in the list. Isn't English wonderful! Language theory suggest that doesn't will take a few generations before it disapears altogether.

 

[raxo2222]

Natron should probably be moved to the same place a Salt and Geothermal Energy should probably be renamed Geothermal Vent and moved Animism so we can use it for The Oracle and other religious buildings. Iron, Tin and Lead Ores probably should be moved to Barter as well. There are a group of wonders Hydro and I wanted to add in but were not able to at the time which would require these resources to be visible but not available for trade.

As for Iron/Platinum I moved their reveal from mining to metal casting recently.
What about Platinum? Can its reveal moved to Barter too? This way most of metals would be revealed at Barter.

Geothermal Energy is referred as Hot Spring on wiki in history section. By the way RawVicinity should be used here, since improvement is unlocked in Modern era.

Also Reveal (Visible, usable by (raw)vicinity buildings)/Enable (can be traded and utilized anywhere, appears in list of resources) resource techs were thing in vanilla - For example in vanilla Uranium was Revealed by Physics and Enabled by Fission.
I guess there were no RawVicinity, so you couldn't utilize Reveal (visibility) as early as you wanted, since you needed improvement.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Drying and Barter doesn't have to be researched if you are going straight for tribalism.

Barter is a Very important Tech and should be part of the chain to Tribalism because of the Civic it enables for Society.

 

[raxo2222]

Barter is a Very important Tech and should be part of the chain to Tribalism because of the Civic it enables for Society.

I can add requirement somewhere, so Barter would be selected, if you click on Tribalism.

But @KaTiON_PT is remodeling Prehistoric and Information era tech tree parts anyway, so they would be more consistent chronologically with current knowledge.

Spoiler :

Those are WIP tech tree.
Tribalism requires Barter as one of techs here.

He should check for required tech redundancies of tech/buildings, and check if buildings aren't unlocked before their prereqs (prereqs not being in earlier columns than building/unit itself).
All techs except punks/religions/two building requiring techs and mountaineering should lead to another tech (that leads to another one).

He did cool thing in beginning of WIP Prehistoric era: Nomadic Lifestyle is now always first tech, that you research.
Then you can have nice beelining choices.

 

[JosEPh_II]

He did cool thing in beginning of WIP Prehistoric era: Nomadic Lifestyle is now always first tech, that you research.

I always start with Language 1st, Then Nomadic Lifestyle 2nd.

Don't out think yourself guys!

 

[KaTiON_PT]

I always start with Language 1st, Then Nomadic Lifestyle 2nd.

Don't out think yourself guys!

I know...

This would make nomadic lifestyle follow suit like the rest of the gateway techs.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I know...

This would make nomadic lifestyle follow suit like the rest of the gateway techs.

I actually disagree with that choice because Nomadic Lifestyle is the secret 'better' first selection.

Why is it secret? Because it's rare for people to figure this out.

+5% modifier means +0 when there's not a 20 or more research base value. USUALLY, there isn't yet a base of 20 research to benefit from the +5% that the first civic change can offer. However, down Nomadic Lifestyle you get access to Wanderers and if you avoid popping the first goodie huts you find and wait for a Wanderer to do it, you are assured of those first huts NOT being negative results. By going for NL first, you can do this safely knowing that no other opponent will be able to field anything to steal those huts off of you. The huts may be able to get you technology faster than a +research% that you aren't immediately going to get any benefit out of for a while. (And even if it's been changed to +10% then it's still likely the huts will get you the tech faster than +1 per round.)

The Community Discussions is a good argument for going for Language first on the harder settings where you're going to avoid a little education problems right away if you go for that as quickly as possible, but not on the HARDEST 2 settings where even getting Community Discussions won't avoid the problem.

I've always liked the strategic variation in those first two choices and also don't think any tech tree should start off with only one predestined decision.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So basically you are telling everyone to use NL 1st over Languages.

 

[Thunderbrd]

So basically you are telling everyone to use NL 1st over Languages.

I'm saying there are arguments for doing so but it may depend on the game difficulty and your individual priorities as to which you would prefer. But take note of the hidden benefits before having your mind made up as to which is 'best' because it's not as clear cut as it may seem at first glance. The benefits of Language first may not even be applying when you reach it so may be squandering the first research rounds in comparison to the immediate tangible benefits you can derive from Nomadic.

Therefore, changing the tree so that only one of the two is your first option seems a design decision I would urge reconsidering.

 

[KaTiON_PT]

Therefore, changing the tree so that only one of the two is your first option seems a design decision I would urge reconsidering.

Yeah, I'm changing it so it includes this suggestion of yours that I like.

 

[raxo2222]

@strategyonly @Thunderbrd @Dancing Hoskuld @JosEPh_II and others:
Do you choose single city, where you build all buildings or at least all resource producers no matter what?

I think this is good strategy for any handicap:
You make sure, that you always have manufactured resources, and you prevent obsoletions from surprising you.
Rest of cities are just minding their business.

Pollution problems (resource producers most likely add pollution) in single city aren't that bad especially if that city builds all buildings, since properties are "diluted" by buildings.

I think you should buildings, that are required for other buildings in all cities too.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Do you choose single city, where you build all buildings or at least all resource producers no matter what?

This strategy is somewhat in flux based on the design of the buildings themselves. I might spread out resource producers if it's more advantageous to do so based on the penalties, but if there is enough of a benefit to placing the building in a 'super city', such as some production benefit, then it may well be worth it to suffer through more pollution and unhealth and counter that directly in that city if possible. It's hard to find much cause to show restraint when trying to reach maximum possible production in your primary city(s). Doing so lets you focus your military training benefits there and then plug out as many high quality units as you can.

Depending on options. Without unlimited wonders, it can often require a lot more spreading out of your military training efforts and if you do, the side benefit is that overall you can tend to train your military much faster since not only one or two cities are responsible for it (while also being responsible for soaking as many wonders as you can at the same time and having to build everything that is going to give a training and production - and likely economic benefits as well.)

So really, a lot of this depends on the options in use. And soon will also depend some on the traits adopted as well.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

@strategyonly @Thunderbrd @Dancing Hoskuld @JosEPh_II and others:
Do you choose single city, where you build all buildings or at least all resource producers no matter what?

I think this is good strategy for any handicap:
You make sure, that you always have manufactured resources, and you prevent obsoletions from surprising you.
Rest of cities are just minding their business.

Pollution problems (resource producers most likely add pollution) in single city aren't that bad especially if that city builds all buildings, since properties are "diluted" by buildings.

I think you should buildings, that are required for other buildings in all cities too.

Given that it is not possible due to the vicinity requirements for some buildings I would have to say no. Even if I could, I would still spread out the pollution producing buildings between my major cities.

This suggested method would have no effect on obsoletions surprising you. In fact it would make surprises more likely since the city would be the main production city and have a lot of conflicting priorities.

 

[raxo2222]

Given that it is not possible due to the vicinity requirements for some buildings I would have to say no. Even if I could, I would still spread out the pollution producing buildings between my major cities.

This suggested method would have no effect on obsoletions surprising you. In fact it would make surprises more likely since the city would be the main production city and have a lot of conflicting priorities.

Well smiths/smelters/factories for example doesn't need bonus in vicinity.
In Medieval and later most of new resource producers doesn't need resource in vicinity except for dye making buildings.

Also that one city could just keep building cheapest buildings.

 

[Thunderbrd]

What if the producing building actually doesn't give any benefit BUT the resource, (maybe a litle gold for the taxation on the transactions) and instead of giving production, actually costs production because it's a place where production is being put to work rather than one that's providing the community with more productivity? At that point you'd really want to spread things out right?

Then when the buildings for marketing or delivering the goods, like markets etc... to the community are constructed, those buildings have improved benefit with access to the goods.

 

[jiallombardo]

Hello,

I've an issue with the unit hover window. In my capital I have a large stack of units (mostly subdued animals and heroes -- I just stockpile them, I'm not really worrying about strategy and whatnot, just having fun with the game); whenever I hover over that large stack (or another city which has a large enough stack of subdued animals), the game lags really hard, becomes choppy etc, when I move the cursor away, everything's fine. It's not a huge problem, but there are times when I hover over that stack and that inadvertedly causes the game to slow down to a crawl.

Is there an option to perhaps somehow limit the info displayed in that window? Or perhaps some graphics option I should use to relieve this issue? I've linked a screenshot of the window in question:https://ibb.co/1Tk5JL3

Thank you!

 

[Toffer90]

@Thunderbrd, perhaps we should remove the unit promotion from showing in the hover window for unit stacks if there are more than lets say 10 units on the plot or something.
All those .dds icons takes a bit of time to display compared to just displaying regular text.

I'll look into the code for it to see if it's plausible to achieve my suggestion, I may guide Kation through making the change if you (TB) are busy, and he's not.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I may guide Kation through making the change if you (TB) are busy.

If that's something you guys want to address, that's fine with me. I am a little distant from that concern at the moment so yeah, go for it.