No, it would be a size 1 city with no way of growing (until you actually start sending people there in the late TH/early Galactic Era). It could build 'workers', which can make mines and collect Helium 3 (which should be a resource.)
C2C - Transhuman Era
- Thread starter rightfuture
- Start date
No, it would be a size 1 city with no way of growing (until you actually start sending people there in the late TH/early Galactic Era). It could build 'workers', which can make mines and collect Helium 3 (which should be a resource.)
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
But hows the stuff get back off the moon without a spaceport?
I was thinking that the Lunar technologies would be the very END of the Transhuman Era. Asteroid mining and lunar colonies don't seem that far out of line for the Transhuman Era, and then the Galactic Era begins as you break out of the Sol system.
I'll do a proposal shortly.
Okay, here is my idea for what do with the Lunar technologies. There are four technologies that I am concentrating on:
Lunar Colonization is the easiest. Its only prerequisite is Advanced Environmental Systems, which is already a Transhuman Era technology. I propose:
Lunar Manufacturing requires Lunar Colonization (which would be Transhuman Era) and Powered Exoskeleton (which is also Transhuman Era). This would be easy to move to the Transhuman Era as well. I propose:
Likewise, Lunar Tourism requires only Lunar Colonization (which would be Transhuman Era) and Space Tourism (which is a late Modern Era tech). I think that Space Tourism should be added to the prerequisites for Commercial Spaceflight and Commercial Spaceflight should be added to the prerequisites for Orbital Flight, then delete Space Tourism from the prerequisites for Lunar Tourism (Space Tourism - Commercial Spaceflight - Orbital Flight - Advanced Environmental Systems - Lunar Colonization - Lunar Tourism).
Lunar Trade is the difficult one, because it requires three Galactic Era technologies: Mass Driver, Planetary Economics, and Solar Propulsion. Mass Driver requires Asteroid Extraction (Galactic Era) and Railgun (Transhuman Era). Planetary Economics requires Androids (Transhuman Era), Environmental Economics (Transhuman Era), Fusion (Transhuman Era), Megacorporations (Transhuman Era), and Nanobotics (Galactic Era). Solar Propulsion requires Lunar Tourism (moved to Transhuman Era in this scheme) and Asteroid Extraction (Galactic Era).
For Planetary Economics, I would propose deleting Nanobotics and moving the technology backwards to X95 Y11. It will still have four Transhuman Era prerequisites.
I would delete the Solar Propulsion requirement from Lunar Trade and replace it with Lunar Colonization. I don't think Solar Propulsion would be that useful for Earth-Luna trade. On the interplanetary scale, Solar Propulsion would be more important.
Mass Driver is a little bit more complicated. Asteroid Extraction requires Nanobotics and Orbital Megastructures. To me, that suggests a technology of capturing asteroids and bringing them to an orbital facility for rendering the asteroids down to component elements. I think a simpler technology would represent sending spaceships to nearby asteroids and mining them for easily accessible materials. I would rename Asteroid Extraction to Asteroid Mining, change its requirement to Asteroid Belt Probes, and moving it to X85 Y5. Then, move Mass Driver back to X88 Y5. Lunar Trade would fit in X96 Y11 with prerequisites of Lunar Colonization + Mass Driver + Planetary Economics.
To sum up:
What do you think? Columns X95 and X96 would look like this:
|X95|X96
Y1|
Y3|Lunar Colonization|Lunar Manufacturing
Y5||Lunar Tourism
Y7|
Y9|
Y11|Planetary Economics|Lunar Trade
Y13|
Y15|
Y17|
Y19|
- Lunar Colonization
- Lunar Manufacturing
- Lunar Tourism
- Lunar Trade
Lunar Colonization is the easiest. Its only prerequisite is Advanced Environmental Systems, which is already a Transhuman Era technology. I propose:
- Move Lunar Colonization to X95 Y3.
- Move Lunar Colonization to ERA_TRANSHUMAN.
Lunar Manufacturing requires Lunar Colonization (which would be Transhuman Era) and Powered Exoskeleton (which is also Transhuman Era). This would be easy to move to the Transhuman Era as well. I propose:
- Move Lunar Manufacturing to X96 Y3.
- Move Lunar Manufacturing to ERA_TRANSHUMAN.
Likewise, Lunar Tourism requires only Lunar Colonization (which would be Transhuman Era) and Space Tourism (which is a late Modern Era tech). I think that Space Tourism should be added to the prerequisites for Commercial Spaceflight and Commercial Spaceflight should be added to the prerequisites for Orbital Flight, then delete Space Tourism from the prerequisites for Lunar Tourism (Space Tourism - Commercial Spaceflight - Orbital Flight - Advanced Environmental Systems - Lunar Colonization - Lunar Tourism).
- Add Space Tourism as an AND prerequisite for Commercial Spaceflight.
- Add Commercial Spaceflight as an AND prerequisite for Orbital Flight.
- Delete Space Tourism as a prerequisite for Lunar Tourism.
- Move Lunar Tourism to X96 Y5.
- Move Lunar Tourism to ERA_TRANSHUMAN.
Lunar Trade is the difficult one, because it requires three Galactic Era technologies: Mass Driver, Planetary Economics, and Solar Propulsion. Mass Driver requires Asteroid Extraction (Galactic Era) and Railgun (Transhuman Era). Planetary Economics requires Androids (Transhuman Era), Environmental Economics (Transhuman Era), Fusion (Transhuman Era), Megacorporations (Transhuman Era), and Nanobotics (Galactic Era). Solar Propulsion requires Lunar Tourism (moved to Transhuman Era in this scheme) and Asteroid Extraction (Galactic Era).
For Planetary Economics, I would propose deleting Nanobotics and moving the technology backwards to X95 Y11. It will still have four Transhuman Era prerequisites.
I would delete the Solar Propulsion requirement from Lunar Trade and replace it with Lunar Colonization. I don't think Solar Propulsion would be that useful for Earth-Luna trade. On the interplanetary scale, Solar Propulsion would be more important.
Mass Driver is a little bit more complicated. Asteroid Extraction requires Nanobotics and Orbital Megastructures. To me, that suggests a technology of capturing asteroids and bringing them to an orbital facility for rendering the asteroids down to component elements. I think a simpler technology would represent sending spaceships to nearby asteroids and mining them for easily accessible materials. I would rename Asteroid Extraction to Asteroid Mining, change its requirement to Asteroid Belt Probes, and moving it to X85 Y5. Then, move Mass Driver back to X88 Y5. Lunar Trade would fit in X96 Y11 with prerequisites of Lunar Colonization + Mass Driver + Planetary Economics.
To sum up:
- Rename Asteroid Extraction to Asteroid Mining.
- Change the prerequisites of Asteroid Mining to Asteroid Belt Probes.
- Move Asteroid Mining to X85 Y5.
- Move Asteroid Mining to ERA_TRANSHUMAN.
- Move Mass Driver to X88 Y5.
- Move Mass Driver to ERA_TRANSHUMAN.
- Delete the Nanobotics prerequisite of Planetary Economics.
- Move Planetary Economics to X95 Y11.
- Move Planetary Economics to ERA_TRANSHUMAN.
- Change the Solar Propulsion prerequisite of Lunar Trade to Lunar Colonization.
- Move Lunar Trade to X96 Y11.
- Move Lunar Trade to ERA_TRANSHUMAN.
What do you think? Columns X95 and X96 would look like this:
Y1|
Y3|Lunar Colonization|Lunar Manufacturing
Y5||Lunar Tourism
Y7|
Y9|
Y11|Planetary Economics|Lunar Trade
Y13|
Y15|
Y17|
Y19|
That's what the Mass Driver technology is for. You can use the mass driver to propel the material out of Luna's gravity well and into Earth's. The trick is getting it down to Earth safely, although since this is late Transhuman Era, technology should be capable of that.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
@Vokarya
1. That's fine since I already wanted it at X95, however I still don't know why we can;t just have the start of the Galactic Era at X95. You would not have to change the eras of techs if you did. And the locations will be moved anyways.
The old AToM stuff was like this (see attachment). Note this is the original document that Civ_Fuhrer sent me. So there was a lot of changes since then. I have a similar organization on the online tech tree.
2. Ok for Lunar Manufacturing I suppose its location doesn't matter as long as it comes after Lunar Colonization. In the old AToM files it had the requirements of Lunar Colonization AND Astrogeology. However that's long down the tree now and redundant.
3. Ah I see its the Commercial Space Flight which is the new tech and putting a wrench in things between Space Tourism and Commercial Space Flight. BTW what is the difference between the 2 techs? At any rate your corrections make sense.
4. So yeah the Mass Driver, Asteroid Mining and Lunar Tourism is confusing. I think what we need is a new tech "Lunar Mining" or "Lunar Extraction" this would go like ...
Lunar Colonization -> Lunar Extraction -> Lunar Manufacturing
The Mass Driver would be like ...
Mass Driver
Req Tech: Rail Gun AND Asteroid Extraction
Note if we want to be all simplistic we can just chnage all the words "Extraction" to "Mining" the only reason its not "Mining" is that Civ_Fuhrer thought "extraction" sounded more futuristic.
Thus Lunar techs become ...
Lunar Colonization
Req Techs: Advanced Environmental Systems
Orbital Megastructures
Req Techs: Advanced Environmental Systems AND Megastructures
Asteroid Mining
Req Techs: Asteroid Belt Probes
Mass Driver
Req Tech: Rail Gun AND Asteroid Mining
Asteroid Extraction
Req Techs: Mass Driver AND Nanomining AND Orbital Megastructures
Lunar Mining
Req Techs: Lunar Colonization AND Mass Driver AND Nanomining
Lunar Manufacturing
Req Techs: Lunar Mining AND Powered Exoskeletons
Lunar Tourism
Req Techs: Lunar Colonization
Solar Propulsion
Req Techs: Lunar Tourism AND Asteroid Extraction
Lunar Trade
Req Techs: Lunar Manufacturing AND Planetary Economics AND Solar Propulsion
Lunar Megastructures
Req Techs: Lunar Tourism AND Lunar Manufacturing
Sory my head is spinning now but I think this works. Please double check.
1. That's fine since I already wanted it at X95, however I still don't know why we can;t just have the start of the Galactic Era at X95. You would not have to change the eras of techs if you did. And the locations will be moved anyways.
The old AToM stuff was like this (see attachment). Note this is the original document that Civ_Fuhrer sent me. So there was a lot of changes since then. I have a similar organization on the online tech tree.
2. Ok for Lunar Manufacturing I suppose its location doesn't matter as long as it comes after Lunar Colonization. In the old AToM files it had the requirements of Lunar Colonization AND Astrogeology. However that's long down the tree now and redundant.
3. Ah I see its the Commercial Space Flight which is the new tech and putting a wrench in things between Space Tourism and Commercial Space Flight. BTW what is the difference between the 2 techs? At any rate your corrections make sense.
4. So yeah the Mass Driver, Asteroid Mining and Lunar Tourism is confusing. I think what we need is a new tech "Lunar Mining" or "Lunar Extraction" this would go like ...
Lunar Colonization -> Lunar Extraction -> Lunar Manufacturing
The Mass Driver would be like ...
Mass Driver
Req Tech: Rail Gun AND Asteroid Extraction
Note if we want to be all simplistic we can just chnage all the words "Extraction" to "Mining" the only reason its not "Mining" is that Civ_Fuhrer thought "extraction" sounded more futuristic.
Thus Lunar techs become ...
Lunar Colonization
Req Techs: Advanced Environmental Systems
Orbital Megastructures
Req Techs: Advanced Environmental Systems AND Megastructures
Asteroid Mining
Req Techs: Asteroid Belt Probes
Mass Driver
Req Tech: Rail Gun AND Asteroid Mining
Asteroid Extraction
Req Techs: Mass Driver AND Nanomining AND Orbital Megastructures
Lunar Mining
Req Techs: Lunar Colonization AND Mass Driver AND Nanomining
Lunar Manufacturing
Req Techs: Lunar Mining AND Powered Exoskeletons
Lunar Tourism
Req Techs: Lunar Colonization
Solar Propulsion
Req Techs: Lunar Tourism AND Asteroid Extraction
Lunar Trade
Req Techs: Lunar Manufacturing AND Planetary Economics AND Solar Propulsion
Lunar Megastructures
Req Techs: Lunar Tourism AND Lunar Manufacturing
Sory my head is spinning now but I think this works. Please double check.
I think we should draw the line between Transhuman and Galactic Eras at interplanetary/interstellar travel, or at least travel within the asteroid belt. Moon and Mars should be Transhuman, outer planet exploration can go either way, and anything that leaves the Sol system behind should stay Galactic.
One thing that I don't quite get is what is Orbital Flight supposed to represent? Right now, there are three steps beyond Astronautics:
I understand the difference between Space Tourism and Commercial Spaceflight as the former is someone paying for space on a government spaceflight and the latter is spaceflight with no government needed.
- Space Tourism, which is very late in the Modern Era. I see Space Tourism as one-shot, hideously expensive tourism. Only the very rich get to do this, and only once in a lifetime.
- Commercial Spaceflight, which is in the middle of the Transhuman Era. I see this as the point at which spaceflight stops being just a government/military area and other organizations (mostly corporations) are launching their own rockets into space.
- Orbital Flight, which is late in the Transhuman Era. I'm not completely sure what this is supposed to be. Maybe this is where personal space travel becomes practical.
I understand the difference between Space Tourism and Commercial Spaceflight as the former is someone paying for space on a government spaceflight and the latter is spaceflight with no government needed.
If you want to split Asteroid Extraction into two techs, I'm fine with that. As I said, Asteroid Extraction feels like bringing the asteroid to a facility and dismantling it there, while Asteroid Mining is sending a ship to an asteroid, mining it for what can be easily taken, and then the ship returns home with material.
The difference between the two would be:
The difference between the two would be:
- Asteroid Mining would give a unit. The unit has a mission with the outcomes of "lost in space", "returns with nothing" (couldn't find an appropriate asteroid), or "returns with material" -- giving you a new unit (Asteroid Material) that can provide a massive hammer bonus.
- Asteroid Extraction would give a building, with a name like "Orbital Extraction Facility". This would give you a permanent hammer bonus, like a really large-scale version of the Factory.
I have another list to post while the inflation problem is being worked on (so I don't want to actually play). These are the current dead-end techs in the Transhuman Era (except for Biopunk and Cyberpunk, which are supposed to be dead-end). Some of these may be used for Galactic Era techs, but I'm just posting the list here so we can figure out what to do about it.
- Antigrav
- Artificial Photosynthesis
- Augmented Reality
- Cyberimmunology
- Digital Warfare
- Disaster Robots
- Jovian Exploration
- Marine Architecture
- Virtual Society
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
There are basically 3 steps in the original AToM plans, colonizing Moons, Colonizing Planets and Colonizing Stars. The Lunar stuff is the learn the first space colonization stuff, then Mars is for everything elese when your on a planet. Which is why its called Planetary Colonization instead of Martian Colonization. Once you have the skills to colonize the Moon and Mars you should have the skills to colonize any other body in the solar system (except for additional extremes like Venus). Likewise once you leave the solar system you will be at the level to colonize entire solar systems and it will work just like the Final Frontier based mods.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Orbital Flight has Aircraft that can leave the atmosphere. Thus unlocking things like Orbital Bombers and Orbital Fighters. This tech has been in sicne the RoM/AND days.
Well the Orbital Hotel is at Space Tourism. Do you think it should be moved to Commercial Spaceflight then?
Okay, so Orbital Flight is making aircraft space-capable. I can work with that.
I think the Orbital Hotel should be moved. It would give Commercial Spaceflight some content.
Orbital Hotel seems like it is a long ways off at this point. We do not yet have a space launching facility building, do we? That building would get commerce bonuses from Space Tourism, and maybe other bonuses with the right civic choices.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Ok here are some ways to work them in ...
Orbital Megastructures
Req Techs: Advanced Environmental Systems AND Megastructure Engeering AND Antigrav
Artificial Life
Req Techs: DNA Computing AND Artificial Photosynthesis AND (Artificial Evolution OR Homo Superior)
Ubiquitous Computing
Req Techs: Microgenerators AND Powered Exoskeleton AND Augmented Reality
Cybernetics
Req Techs: Bionics AND Cyberimmuniology
Virtual Society
Req Techs: Direct Mechandising AND Digital Warfare
Ontological Engineering
Req Techs: Mesh Networks AND Thought Scanning AND Virtual Society
Deep Space Exploration (NEW!)
Req Techs: Nuclear Pulse Propulsion AND Jovian Exploration
Launch Arcology
Req Techs: Planetary Manufacturing AND Colony Arcology AND Advanced Shielding AND Deep Space Exploration
Marine Colonization (NEW!)
Req Techs: Advanced Environmental Systems AND Superstrong Alloys AND Marine Architecture
Colony Arcology
Req Techs: Extraterrestrial Agriculture AND Shielding AND Organic Cities AND Planetary Megastructures AND Marine Colonization
------
Also where is Disaster Robots and what are the requirements? I don't have it on my online tree.
Okay on these.
Do you want Marine Colonization this far back? It's practically going to be at the end of the Transhuman Era.
Digital Warfare is one of the starter techs of the Transhuman Era, and Virtual Society is much later. Maybe it should be a prerequisite for Military Robotics instead, or in addition?
You have it as Civilian Robots. It's at X84 Y11 and requires Fire Suppression + Military Robotics. I was thinking of making it a prerequisite for Automated Services and/or Ubiquitous Computing.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
1. Yay!
2. Yeah, Marine Colonization is either late Trans-Human or Early Galactic. Note that the Submerged Town Platforms would be under Marine Architecture while Marine Colonization would be for allowing for cities to be founded in the Ocean. How we achieve this is still being worked on since graphically cities are at the wrong height on the map but I am sure we can eventually get it working. Even if we have to invent a new type of "Marine City".
3. I thought of Military Robotics but I thought it might have too many tech requirements already. Its up to you. As long as its no longer a dead end tech.
4. Ah ok I will change the name. I think it would work well as an Automated Services pre-req as for Ubiquitous Computing, eh I don't know.
2. Yeah, Marine Colonization is either late Trans-Human or Early Galactic. Note that the Submerged Town Platforms would be under Marine Architecture while Marine Colonization would be for allowing for cities to be founded in the Ocean. How we achieve this is still being worked on since graphically cities are at the wrong height on the map but I am sure we can eventually get it working. Even if we have to invent a new type of "Marine City".
3. I thought of Military Robotics but I thought it might have too many tech requirements already. Its up to you. As long as its no longer a dead end tech.
4. Ah ok I will change the name. I think it would work well as an Automated Services pre-req as for Ubiquitous Computing, eh I don't know.
GiuseppeIII
The Third Giuseppe
For marine cities how about we just use multi maps once you get marine colonization you could make a building that would allow you to make a scuba settler once placed in the water you would have the option to make a multi map right there. And then you could make a city in the water. This would need a bunch of new trains but I think it's possible you would also need this specific multi map to somehow use the borders of civs and the land borders of the other map
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Its been talked about before that we could have an underwater/underground map. However since multi-maps are not done we cannot really test if that could be done.
OK, then I am fine with these. I will attach Disaster Robotics to Automated Services. Eventually, I think I would like to see each tech require at least two prerequisites and (except for religion and punk techs) lead to two others. I think we should wait on adding any new techs until we
come to a consensus on the current Transhuman Era. I also still really want the Lunar techs (and only the Lunar techs) to be in the Transhuman Era so they serve as the stepping-stone to the Galactic Era when you are actually out in the Galaxy. If X95 and X96 are Transhuman Era, they represent a sort of mini-Lunar Era that leads out into the Galactic.
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