C2C - Units

[ls612]

Do we start with a clubman when we're in the prehistoric start?

The brute is something I've been considering some ways to make balance better with the current implementation of the stone thrower. I've been thinking it would be cool to give it some VSBarbs. We could have an early line of pugilists that carry on from the brute that maintain this as their core ability. Why would pugilists be good against Barbarians? (non-animal ones btw...) Because they specifically fight as strategically as possible without weapons to aid them. Thus they use their minds as much as their arsenal, and they challenge leaders of the barbarian units to duels which are tough to ignore where they gain a rapid upper hand. In summary, they represent an early expression of 'civilization' and use this in every way they can against those less civilized.

Additionally, since they don't require the collection/fabrication of any weaponry, just training, I'd suggest to put their cost at half of what it currently is, making it also 'the cheap unit option'.

While they could then go on to become Clubmen as they do, another 'step' up the line or two could be envisioned.

Grunt, Strongman, Wrestler, Pugilist, Boxer, Martial Artist etc... All could be names used as part of a growing line that could then intersect and interweave with Entertainer, Criminal and Strike Force lines down the road.

Yes, we do start with a clubman. I don't really have an issue with that as it allows for reasonable short-range exploration (ditto with the Stone thrower you get to start) before getting Wanderers.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I didn't think you could start with a unit you didn't have the tech for though? Do we have a way around that then?

I've only been getting a Stone thrower and a band of homo yada yada at the start of my single player test games lately so is this REALLY recent that we started getting a warrior as well?

Regardless of what it allows, it's illogical. You're people don't have the know how to produce a clubman so why are we starting with one? Besides, Stone Throwers are really fun to explore with now... and surprisingly survivable.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Do we have these steam punk airships in game?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Do we have these steam punk airships in game?

Oh awesome! He finally got them to work! Woot! Those I shall go write up some stats for them.

 

[Dissonance]

A small aside that you guys might find interesting. Not really a unit comment or anything; it does, however, say that the Throwing unit type was a great idea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23061016

EDIT: Now that I think about it, this could be an excuse to rename the Stone Thrower into Homo Erectus - for flavour

 

[Hydromancerx]

A small aside that you guys might find interesting. Not really a unit comment or anything; it does, however, say that the Throwing unit type was a great idea.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23061016

EDIT: Now that I think about it, this could be an excuse to rename the Stone Thrower into Homo Erectus - for flavour

Well just because Homo erectus threw rocks doesn't mean Homo sapiens did not do the same thing. In fact isn't the article saying humans do (since humans evolved from Homo Erectus)? And if slings, altalts and boomerangs were not invented yet I would suspect rocks would be the main throwing item.

 

[Dissonance]

Well just because Homo erectus threw rocks doesn't mean Homo sapiens did not do the same thing. In fact isn't the article saying humans do (since humans evolved from Homo Erectus)? And if slings, altalts and boomerangs were not invented yet I would suspect rocks would be the main throwing item.

Oh most definitely. I wanted to mention it as an interesting possibility, as (if I read correctly) Homo Erectus were the first to really take advantage of that. And the game does start at the right time period. But Home Sapiens took that rock throwing science to a whole new level. And eventually squeezed out Home Erectus.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So I guess it would be better if a new Homo Erectus barbarian unit was around at the start of the game and it looked like the Stone Thrower (and possibly the Brute).

Spread of Homo Sapiens Map

Red = Humans
Yellow = Neanderthal
Green = Homo Erectus

 

[Dissonance]

So I guess it would be better if a new Homo Erectus barbarian unit was around at the start of the game and it looked like the Stone Thrower (and possibly the Brute).

Spread of Homo Sapiens Map

Red = Humans
Yellow = Neanderthal
Green = Homo Erectus

That would be quite awesome! Screw other species, we have rockets universities huts holes-in-the-ground to build!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Fire and maybe stone spears are also a Homo Erectus invention. The latter from one of the recent Archaeology magazines.

 

[Dissonance]

Fire and maybe stone spears are also a Homo Erectus invention. The latter from one of the recent Archaeology magazines.

Interesting. Is it possible to have "factions" of barbarians, so that there could be regular/neanderthal/erectus units/camps/cities? If so, I have an interesting concept brewing.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Cool concepts going around here

 

[strategyonly]

What is this "repel" all about??

 

[Yudishtira]

Fire and maybe stone spears are also a Homo Erectus invention. The latter from one of the recent Archaeology magazines.

At first glance I don't see much difference between Homo Erectus' shelter-building and Homo Sapiens' early ones either...

 

[Thunderbrd]

What is this "repel" all about??

Repel is from the combat mod and one of our next steps in implementing it will be to give some units and promos the ability to overcome it (as well as giving specific units this ability and not just derived from defensive buildings.)

What it does is give a chance, after the first round of combat in which the defender damages the attacker, to force the attacker to withdraw. After the first repel check, the battle proceeds entirely as normal.

Defensive buildings with this ability can really help to hold off attackers so that they suffer more damage from adjacent 'trap damage' and buys time for the defending nation to bring in re-enforcements and bolster its defenses yet further.

Again, the opposing ability, Unyielding, needs to be now developed out much further so as to keep things from becoming impossible to capture cities. City attack specialized units should be quite capable of ignoring the obvious threats and navigating their way through them intrepidly rather than giving up the fight and retreating due to the perception of overwhelming odds. In the long term, Repel and Unyielding will be, beyond a set of combat skills, used as a part of a dynamic that also represents the effects of unit morale.

Playing into this picture will also be Knockback, an attacker's ability to similarly enforce the defender to flee and equally overcome by the Unyielding quality of a unit. Units such as Flamethrowers that 'smoke out defenders from their defensive positions' will be those that are capable of developing 'Knockback'. It won't be as common in application as Repel.

 

[Nimek]

I think that aid promotions code from RI will help a lot to attackers.

Ex siege tower aid promotion - ignores noEntryLevel tag.
I will develop aid promotions ideas in realistic city siege thread.

 

[ls612]

Repel is from the combat mod and one of our next steps in implementing it will be to give some units and promos the ability to overcome it (as well as giving specific units this ability and not just derived from defensive buildings.)

What it does is give a chance, after the first round of combat in which the defender damages the attacker, to force the attacker to withdraw. After the first repel check, the battle proceeds entirely as normal.

Defensive buildings with this ability can really help to hold off attackers so that they suffer more damage from adjacent 'trap damage' and buys time for the defending nation to bring in re-enforcements and bolster its defenses yet further.

Again, the opposing ability, Unyielding, needs to be now developed out much further so as to keep things from becoming impossible to capture cities. City attack specialized units should be quite capable of ignoring the obvious threats and navigating their way through them intrepidly rather than giving up the fight and retreating due to the perception of overwhelming odds. In the long term, Repel and Unyielding will be, beyond a set of combat skills, used as a part of a dynamic that also represents the effects of unit morale.

Playing into this picture will also be Knockback, an attacker's ability to similarly enforce the defender to flee and equally overcome by the Unyielding quality of a unit. Units such as Flamethrowers that 'smoke out defenders from their defensive positions' will be those that are capable of developing 'Knockback'. It won't be as common in application as Repel.

How much of this Combat mod stuff is going to be in the core?

 

[Thunderbrd]

It's on a 'try it and see if y'all like it' basis at the moment. I've promised I'd be happy to optionalize whatever players object to. The discussion on defenses has led into this particular immediate application.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I've been thinking about the recon units. Currently the motorcycle is the last of the line and upgrades to the Humvee. Should it not upgrade to a spy drone then space probes and lunar rovers etc? The space probes would give you the terrain of the Moon and Mars but you would require the rover or better to find the resources and explore the goody hut equivalents.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I've been thinking about the recon units. Currently the motorcycle is the last of the line and upgrades to the Humvee. Should it not upgrade to a spy drone then space probes and lunar rovers etc? The space probes would give you the terrain of the Moon and Mars but you would require the rover or better to find the resources and explore the goody hut equivalents.

Yeah there is a big gap missing from Modern on. There is a lot I would like to have added. Note we do have a Lunar Rover unit made but its turned off.