C3C PBEM : "Cortez" - Age of Discovery scenario-based PBEM

[Justus II]

I think the problem is, if you both play natives, that leave more European openings, unless I missed a signup. Here's the listing from Loulong's original post:

Civs

- Dutch : Loulong
- England : Ironduck
- France :
- Portugal : Random Fan
- Spain : Justus II
-----------
- Aztecs : AI
- Incas : AI
- Iroquois : AI

And Detlef has said he'd play France. So if you both play native civs, we have 2 European openings. I'm fine either way, and I'd agree a Eurpean AI isn't ideal, just a suggestion. It would definitely make the other European powers garrison their towns.

My 'preferred' play time is GMT0100 to GMT0500, (8pm to midnight @ GMT-5). But I'm usually able to get a turn in before work or at lunch if needed.

 

[ironduck]

You are right, but RJ agreed to take over one European country and I'm sure we can find one more reliable player for the last slot

 

[Sega Fanatic]

Well, if you have a spot open.....

 

[Detlef Richter]

What about all europeans by human and 1 native by human the others by AI?

My favorit playtime is GMT 9.00 to 17.00.

 

[ironduck]

I don't think it's a good idea to just have one human controlled native, then everyone will just do their best to avoid going to that area since the AI is so much easier to take on. With two humans as natives it's a very different situation since they will take up much more space and will be able to cooperate against the invaders if they so choose.

Sega Fanatic just asked for a spot, so if he/she can commit to playing quickly all the spots should be filled. RJ and Sega take the two open European slots and Random and I take two natives (Random suggested he would be controlling several natives, which I don't mind, but I will only control the Aztecs or I will be too confused).

I guess it's LouLong's call

 

[Random fan]

Yeah Lou give it a chance, we have all people we need. Just let me control both Incas and Iroquis and this is going to be fun!

 

[Justus II]

Based on the special rules, the Aztecs in effect get both the Aztec and Mayan starts, so I don't think it'd be that big of a problem. The biggest thing I see is making sure that the Iroquois and Incas are consecutive in turn order (to speed play along), but making sure they do not result in getting back-to-back attacks on someone without a chance to react.

 

[ironduck]

I can just picture this.. I'll be sandwiched between two nations played by the same human.. better not piss him off!

 

[ironduck]

The biggest thing I see is making sure that the Iroquois and Incas are consecutive in turn order (to speed play along), but making sure they do not result in getting back-to-back attacks on someone without a chance to react.

They are located so far apart that they won't be able to attack anyone like that, at least not until very late in the game..

And yes, since the Aztec will be positioned right next to the Mayans it will essentially be 3 and not 4 natives since they will be swallowed within a reasonable time by me (I hope!)

 

[Justus II]

They are located so far apart that they won't be able to attack anyone like that, at least not until very late in the game..

Actually, it's you who would be caught in the middle... But I'm sure you trust your fellow Native neighbors...

And yes, since the Aztec will be positioned right next to the Mayans it will essentially be 3 and not 4 natives since they will be swallowed within a reasonable time by me (I hope!)

Well, the other AoD scenario Loulong referenced actually gave the Mayan city to the Aztecs at start, he modded it so they started owning both cities, and there was no Mayan player.

 

[ironduck]

Actually, it's you who would be caught in the middle... But I'm sure you trust your fellow Native neighbors...

Gulp!

Well, the other AoD scenario Loulong referenced actually gave the Mayan city to the Aztecs at start, he modded it so they started owning both cities, and there was no Mayan player.

Ah, that would be really nice.. but it's more important for me that we get our civs beefed up, I just tried a couple of turns in single player to have a look, and the tech research is insanely expensive, that kind of thing needs to be remedied.

 

[Justus II]

Ah, that would be really nice.. but it's more important for me that we get our civs beefed up, I just tried a couple of turns in single player to have a look, and the tech research is insanely expensive, that kind of thing needs to be remedied.

From a couple of Loulong's posts describing the earlier game,

Modifs : Iroquois replace Mayas, the Aztecs have a second city where the Maya capital is. All natives civs will be beefed up (settlers, troops, level) and more agressive.
...
So we will limit tech-trade with natives so that they cannot go higher than ancient age. Besides they should not get the horse-related techs. But they will be beefed up (3 more units + 1 extra settler) and all three will be played by humans which should make things more challenging.

As for the tech costs, it depends on what techs you were looking at. Non-Flavor techs (those that aren't 'traditionally' Native techs) are set so a minimal research is the only viable option. Your normal Native techs (Ball Game, etc) are normal cost, but will seem expensive with one city. Starting with 2 cities, and settling a third, should bring them in reach, I would think. Maybe we could get some feedback from RJ if he played the natives in the other AoD game?

 

[ironduck]

Not sure about the tech.. I tried researching blood cults and at 50% it was 96 turns or so, and I seem to remember the max is always 32 turns (or sometimes 40 I think). So it appears that even the native techs are 3 times as expensive, but I could be mistaken.

Also, I don't see why the natives shouldn't be able to go past the ancient age, it will still take quite a while to get there.. not completely unrealistic that we should be able to research 'european' techs after we have met you all.

Either way, as long as we're beefed up, I'm game

 

[ironduck]

Just for when LouLong checks this thread again, here is the proposition I believe everyone agrees on(?)

- Dutch : Loulong
- England : --------------> Sega Fanatic or RubberJello
- France : Detlef Richter
- Portugal : -------------> Sega Fanatic or RubberJello
- Spain : Justus II
-----------
- Aztecs : IronDuck (two starting cities?)
- Incas : Random Fan
- Iroquois : Random Fan

If this is ok with LouLong we just need a play order and beefing up the native civs.

 

[Justus II]

Not sure about the tech.. I tried researching blood cults and at 50% it was 96 turns or so, and I seem to remember the max is always 32 turns (or sometimes 40 I think). So it appears that even the native techs are 3 times as expensive, but I could be mistaken.

Also, I don't see why the natives shouldn't be able to go past the ancient age, it will still take quite a while to get there.. not completely unrealistic that we should be able to research 'european' techs after we have met you all.

Either way, as long as we're beefed up, I'm game

The max number of turns to research a tech in C3C 'Normal' games is 50 turns, but I think it's adjusted for map size, so 40 for a small map, 32 for tiny, or something like that. For the specific Conquests (like Rise of Rome, Age of Discovery) it's different for each one, this one I believe is set to 100 turns. Note again, though, that you are (in effect) researching a 3rd level tech, with only one city, so you're only generating a limited number of beakers. Once you have 2-3 cities, it should seem more reasonable. Even as Spain, I'll be lucky to research one of the first-tier techs for our age in less than 20-25 turns at the start.

The Ancient Age tech restriction was only on trading by the european powers, not on your own research. Once you get out of the Ancient age, you can research Middle Age techs normally. (At least, as I understand the rules).

 

[Rubberjello]

Yes. The tech pace is about right. Once you get 3-4 cities, you can reasearch the native techs yourself over a lengthy time period, but don't go minimum! You can get cheap techs from the Europeans just for the money you make dispersing Barb Camps. Once the European cutoff is hit, you can start researching the next age. I've already done a couple, traded a third and fourth from the AI native civ, and stand to get two more soon when my Temple of the Sun(moon?) completes. I am going to revolt to Catholic Monarchy as soon as my Golden Age ends. My personal goal is to get into the Third Age.... win or lose the game! Those Europeans are in for a rude surprise if they attack and then find Pikes/M.I. instead of Jag Warriors!

Again...no Civ preference here.

 

[ironduck]

I'm not sure I understand the tech thing.. 'European cutoff'? Not liking the sound of 'lengthy time period either', but guess I'll take what I can get

Now.. if LouLong would come around so we could start this thing..

 

[Sega Fanatic]

I don't have a civ preference either.

 

[LouLong]

OK I am here. Man I start to think I am needed. All these mails !!!!
Sorry as you might now I am a bit busy with a scenario right now.

So now I am ready to launch it but I don't get anything anymore. There are too many people I believe ! I am not in favor of human played Indians as it would make the game run slowly but if all want hman-controlled Indians... I will bow.

But at least tell me what civs you wnat/have as I am getting lost here.

 

[Justus II]

I am still ready to play, and I would still like to play as Spain. I would be happy either way (with AI Natives, or human-played Natives), although I understand it could slow the game down. If we want to keep this one (Cortez) faster/down to 5 players, maybe we could keep this one as all AI Natives, and start up a new game with Human Native players (and AI European civs, or some AI and some Human civs). Just a suggestion.