C3C PBEM : "Cortez" - Age of Discovery scenario-based PBEM

[Detlef Richter]

I prefer France. I'am new to this Scenario, so i think without nativ humans it could be faster and perhaps easier.

 

[LouLong]

I like Justus II's idea.
Seems like we are heading towards 2 different games, this one without human-played natives and another one with them. RJ, what happened to that cooperative PBEM of yours ? Because maybe you could organize it now, seems like there are other people interested in playing the natives and going for Europe's jugular !

 

[ironduck]

I don't see why it couldn't be a fast (1 turn per day) game with 7 players if the players are right and the order is set up properly..

The fun of being native goes away if the opponents aren't humans.

 

[ironduck]

RJ and Sega: The game has started without us being natives so there aren't any slots free.. maybe Random and I can kick your hiney as natives in another AoD?

 

[Justus II]

OK, AoD-Cortez is underway! I've sent the first save game out. Just as a refresher, here are the special rules for this scenario (I've added some comments in Italics to clarify things they decided later in that discussion thread.)

*** Special Rules ***
Special rules : this PBEM will have the following rules so by choosing to be part of it, you promise to abide by them.

- Europe : no war can be raged on the European territory. This includes all starting cities, such as the island territories. If you are at war with another power, you must keep your fight in the colonies, no land battle allowed in Europe (naval battles are of course authorized around Europe, including Gibraltar).
- Religion : If a country research protestantism while another chooses the counter-reformation then these countries should declare war on one another (whether you actually fight is another issue but no trade, no agreement anyway). Bold added, so war isn't required until the listed techs are discovered.
- Modifs : Iroquois replace Mayas, the Aztecs have a second city where the Maya capital is. All natives civs will be beefed up (settlers, troops, level) and more agressive.
- Map Trading : disabling Map trading completely to give a stronger feeling of "discovery".
- Natives and Techs : forbid tech-trading with Natives: This was decided to allow trading of all Ancient era techs, but none beyond that point.
- Treasure (relics graphics) : add some trasure units (cities of Cebola for those who played Colonization) so that an efficient (and quick) exploration should be fruitful.

There are no special rules regarding AI diplomacy, since we don't have contact initially anyway, it shouldn't be a problem. First one to contact them, gets to exploit, I mean Enlighten them!

Game Settings
In starting the game, I've used the following game settings:
Difficulty: Monarch (Set in the scenario file)
Barbarians: Raging (Set in the scenario file)
World Size: Large*
*Due to the World Size bug (linked in my signature) custom maps revert to the world size (and barb setting) of the last 'random' game played. So I loaded a random game with these settings before starting, to ensure the settings would be carried over correctly.

Roster
- Spain : Justus II
- Portugal : Random Fan
- France : Detlef
- England : Ironduck
- Netherlands : Loulong

EDIT: One other reminder, as we discussed earlier, no moving the capital, it has to stay in Europe! Colonial capital helps a lot with corruption, and with the reduced corruption settings of this scenario (70%), it's not too bad even in your new colonies.

 

[ironduck]

I don't understand how this rule works:

- Religion : If a country research protestantism while another chooses the counter-reformation then these countries should declare war on one another

How do I know what others have researched? And what if you research both? It doesn't make sense to me.. if it was a government thing it would make more sense (as in one being protestand and another being catholic)..

Also this rule:

- Natives and Techs : forbid tech-trading with Natives: This was decided to allow trading of all Ancient era techs, but none beyond that point.

So tech trading is allowed with natives for ancient techs, just not outside that era?

 

[Justus II]

I don't understand how this rule works:

- Religion : If a country research protestantism while another chooses the counter-reformation then these countries should declare war on one another

How do I know what others have researched? And what if you research both? It doesn't make sense to me.. if it was a government thing it would make more sense (as in one being protestand and another being catholic)..

I'll let Loulong explain this, as it's his rule, and we have a while before we get to that point. I could see the point of only if you switch governments (after all, what if you're a Catholic Monarchy that trades for Protestantism). Also, you're right, unless a Human civ announces they've researched it, there's no way to tell, while the current government can always be identified by F3. Maybe once you research Counter-Reformation (if you do), you have to announce it, and declare on any Protestant Governments?

Also this rule:

- Natives and Techs : forbid tech-trading with Natives: This was decided to allow trading of all Ancient era techs, but none beyond that point.

So tech trading is allowed with natives for ancient techs, just not outside that era?

Yes, that was the final decision from the other AoD game where these rules were posted. Note that THEIR ancient techs (blood cult, etc) are non-tradeable, at least the entry ones are, they would have to be stolen in order to get access to their other techs. But we can sell them our ancient techs.

 

[ironduck]

Umm.. is the play order correct? The following prefered times were noted:

Justus: 1 AM - 5 AM GMT
Random Fan: 19-22 GMT

And yet Justus is supposed to send directly to Random Fan? That's almost a 24 hour delay just there, it looks like they should be at the opposite ends of the chain. Maybe we can all give up our times again and redo the list? This looks way weird..

 

[Justus II]

With the scenarios, the turn order is more or less dictated by the countries chosen, unless the turn order is edited in the scenario (i.e. Spain is set up to always go first, then Portugal, etc). It still may be worthwhile to review everyone's prefererred play times, but I'm not sure how much flexibility there is, it appears from the email addresses that I'm the only U.S. player? I am very flexible on play times, however, I can usually play on my lunch break (as today), or in the morning before work, if the save is available, as well as evenings. I was more concerned with the 'next' leg of the times, as I believe Detlef's preferred times were 9-17 GMT (daytime), so he will be 11 hours after Random Fan.

 

[ironduck]

I thought it was possible to edit the turn order completely which is why I assumed Lou asked about the play times from everyone.. If it is possible I strongly suggest we all list our available times again and set up the turn order optimally. Games are a lot more fun when they move smoothly so they maintain a certain intensity.

 

[Justus II]

Well, the game has already started making it around, I've recieved a GPS from Random Fan already.

I looked at the play times everyone had listed (except Loulong, I don't think he listed a time), and the only change might be swapping Random and Detlef, since the time he listed appears to be daytime (for GMT). If Detlef is capable of checking email and playing in the evenings, we should be OK.

I'd like everyone to post their Got/played/sent to the thread for the first round or two if we can, to help see how it's actually progressing, if we're going to restart, we probably need to do it soon, before people reach the New World? However, I think once it gets going, we should be able to maintain a good rotation as long as everyone checks their email regularly.

 

[ironduck]

Yeah, let's do the GPS on here for a bit, but I'd really like to see everyone's play times..

Haven't gotten mine yet btw

 

[Justus II]

OK, here's all the play times I copied from this thread:

Spain Justus II GMT 01-05* *(Flexible, I can usually play a turn at other times also)
Portugal Random Fan GMT 19-22
France Detlef GMT 09-17
England Ironduck GMT 15-24
Dutch Loulong GMT ??? (I haven't seen him post his preferred time)

To me, the easiest adjustment is moving Detlef in front of Random, so he would get the save from me in time to play during his daytime, then pass it to Random before 1900GMT, who could play it and get it to Ironduck by GMT2200, then on to Loulong (if his playtime is late). I'm trying to minimize changes to the order, as the order is an important part of each nation's start, especially regarding exploration and contacts, of who moves first. At least France and Portugal tend to go in different directions, so swapping them should have minimal impact.


I'd appreciate if we could get everyone to post and either confirm or adjust their listed times, and say whether it's worth starting again to get on a better rotation. It seems we've already hit the first snag, as Random will be sending it to Detlef after the work day completes, so it'll have to wait until morning (GMT) to get it. I don't see a way around that without changing the rotation, unless he can access the save in the evening.

 

[Random fan]

Damn, by my calculations Spain will beat me in the race to Aztecs unless Justus will make somekind of stupid mistake. I am closer, my ships are faster and yet I am loosing no matter what since they are the fist to make their turn Oh well at least I am sure I will be the first to exploit Incas for some time

 

[LouLong]

Sorry. Guess my mind is a bit busy with the Great Armada. I completely forgot about playing times....
We can arrange that but it means we need to modify the biq then restart.
AFAIC any playing time nearly.

 

[LouLong]

About the rules : yes, you have to annouce if you go for protestantism or counter-reformation (which is not before a while anyway !).

 

[Justus II]

Damn, by my calculations Spain will beat me in the race to Aztecs unless Justus will make somekind of stupid mistake. I am closer, my ships are faster and yet I am loosing no matter what since they are the fist to make their turn Oh well at least I am sure I will be the first to exploit Incas for some time

The Aztecs? Who are they? I don't know who you're talking about.... Spain is eager to meet any and all natives of this fabled New World, and spread the benefits of Western culture.

BTW, This is partly what I was referring to, regarding turn order. The scenario is set up, intentionally I believe, to create some of the historical sequences. Spain was the first to arrive, so they move first, but Portugal can quickly overtake their ships. Britain and France are also in a race in the north, France gets to move ahead of England, but England's ships are faster. So preserving the turn order, at least within each of those pairs, is IMHO important. The Dutch, well, the Dutch are behind everyone else regardless. (Sorry Loulong).

 

[Justus II]

Sorry. Guess my mind is a bit busy with the Great Armada. I completely forgot about playing times....
We can arrange that but it means we need to modify the biq then restart.
AFAIC any playing time nearly.

OK, I haven't heard from Detlef, so I'll assume he hasn't played yet. I will edit the turn order as I mentioned above (swapping France and Portugal), then retake my turn and send to Detlef, which he should still get during his preferred play time today. From there, he can forward it to Random before his play time, then Ironduck, then Loulong, and it should come back here to the US by my eveningtime.

 

[Detlef Richter]

I've just read the posts, so if i'am right, i can cancel my first turn and i wait for an second mail. I can also play behind 17 but not really save. It's my wife and doughters time. It's easier for me to finish bevor 17 o'clock (GMT).

 

[Justus II]

OK, Cortez2 has begun! I've sent the new save to Detlef.