Campbell attacks stop-and-search

[ComradeDavo]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6482263.stm

Campbell attacks stop-and-search

Sir Menzies said stop-and-search powers were overused
Police stop-and-search powers are overused and alienating ethnic minority communities, Lib Dem leader Sir Menzies Campbell has said.
The Lib Dems say nearly 167,000 people have been stopped under anti-terrorism laws, but only 40 have been convicted.

In a speech at a mosque in Birmingham, Sir Menzies said the powers were often used in an "indiscriminate" way.

Police chiefs have confirmed they are reviewing the practice, so it is based more on intelligence than appearance.

'Unrelenting'

Sir Menzies said: "It is intelligence-led policing, not indiscriminate stop-and-search, that will bring success in the fight against terrorism.

"The police and security services must be unrelenting in their determination to track down those who plot terror attacks.

"Indiscriminate stop-and-search is alienating minority groups who often feel unjustly targeted.

"Anti-terrorism powers are meant to be exceptional powers, used occasionally and only when circumstances demand it.

"The fact that so many people have been stopped, and so few arrested, suggests that the powers are being used as part of standard policing techniques."

In January, it was revealed the Association of Chief Police Officers was working with the Metropolitan Police to develop a more sensitive approach.

Commander Richard Gargini, the first full-time national coordinator for police community relations, said other forces in England and Wales were also rethinking tactics.

A raid in Forest Gate, east London, last year was criticised as too heavy-handed.

One man was shot, but both he and another man arrested at the time were not charged with any offence and were released a week later.

I agree fully, and am glad that he is raising the issue.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I agree fully, and am glad that he is raising the issue.

I'd prefer the powers to be limited to use against Chavs and Tool fans.

PS Thanks for the heads up about not taking your threads seriously

 

[ComradeDavo]

I'd prefer the powers to be limited to use against Chavs and Tool fans.

PS Thanks for the heads up about not taking your threads seriously

I was reffering to that particular thread. Got a serious comment for this thread? Or do you support the current policy, which seemingly is stop and search anyone who isn't white?

 

[Bugfatty300]

"Halt! Your papers, please!"

What is a stop-and-search exactly? Pat downs, full searches? Can police to it to anyone "suspicious" looking or is "probable cause" needed?

 

[woody60707]

What is stop-and-search?

 

[Lambert Simnel]

I was reffering to that particular thread. Got a serious comment for this thread? Or do you support the current policy, which seemingly is stop and search anyone who isn't white?

Dang. So this is a serious thread ? Looks like kicking a dead dog to me.

Ming says it's being misused / overused. Apparently the police have already come to the conclusion that it's being misused. Not sure he's saying very much here.

In general, I don't like stop and search type policies (though I was stopped and searched when I was a young 'un, and it never did me any harm ). If the numbers are right, then that is indeed overuse.

the current policy, which seemingly is stop and search anyone who isn't white?

Not sure if your article supports that - perhaps another link to back this one up ? I mean, both you and I will suspect the police of being (what was that phrase again ? ahh) "institutionally racist", but it'd be nice to have figures or facts to back it up, rather than just your gut feeling.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I may have been rather drunk when I posted the 'white' comment. I think I was just irked because I know you think i'm just trying to promote the lib Dems rather than talk about the issue

@those asking what 'stop and search' is - basically it's use of so called 'anti-terrorism' measures to stop and search people that the police may 'suspect' The point of me posting this thread was that I agree with Campell that it is being severly misused, and it's part of a wider assault on civil liberties by this government.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

You're pretty close on my thoughts as to why you started the thread. Actually, I do believe that you feel strongly about the issue, but starting the thread by posting a link to Ming's thoughts, putting his name first in the thread title... well, these sort of things make me think that you are at least trying to promote the Lib Dems on the back of how terrible things are, rather than really being focused on the issue.

Which, at the end of day, is probably fair enough - you seem to genuinely believe in the Lib Dems (in a way I don't), and I guess you feel they are part of the solution. You have to be prepared for people making digs at you for it though. Hell, someone once called me a champagne socialist, and we both know how far off the mark that is

As to whether this is part of a "wider assault on civil liberties by this government", well, Ming seems to suggest that this is actually a misuse of powers by the police ("Anti-terrorism powers are meant to be exceptional powers, used occasionally and only when circumstances demand it"). This would suggest he isn't criticising the policy per se, but rather the police's abuse of it. Maybe, again, he has more clearly criticised the policy itself elsewhere ?

 

[Lambert Simnel]

What is stop-and-search?

Basically it's a law which gives the polcie the right to stop you, question you and potentially search you if they have reasonable reason to do so. There are a number of intended safeguards built into the system (including attempts to measure the ethnicity of those stopped to try to detect any racist patterns in the application of the law).

The Home Office website on the subject is actually pretty decent Stop & Search.

On one hand, it's supposed to let the police prevent the sort of crimes (such as acts of terrorism) where it can be difficult to prove the person has done much wrong until they have actually blown themselves and 200 others up. On the other hand, it is a fundamental abrasion of civil liberties - the worry is whether it becomes meaningfully so if abused by the police.

 

[ComradeDavo]

I was mentioning Campbell because a)He was the one raising the issue and b)I've seen him get alot of flak for not being vocal enough, so I thought i'd post an example.

I think the Lib Dems are a better solution then any other options i've seen. My opnion could easily change if they deal with the Tories at all in case of hung parliment....depending on the deal struck and what is sacraficed.

Also note that at the same time as I posted this I made a thread on the Tories (which has been ignored )

 

[boarder]

I got stopped and searched the other day, was kind of annoying the way they dragged me out of the car because they thought I was a car thief lmao not my fault it takes them a long time to catch up to me in there old police vans.
But more OT its ok getting onto planes I have no problem with that but this whole terrorism thing is a bit over rated imo

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Well Sir Ming was talking in a Mosque so what else was he going to spin, sorry, say?

I am sure that, apart from trying to get Muslims to vote for him, one of the main reason for him saying it was to give a message to all his drug using supporters who would like to continue their illegal actions with no fear of being stopped and searched by the police…

@Lambert
Now do you understand why CD started the thread?

 

[ComradeDavo]

You have a problem with me using drugs? I bet you drink alcohol. So you are a Drug user.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

Think I missed the thread on the Tories. What a shame.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

You have a problem with me using drugs? I bet you drink alcohol. So you are a Drug user.

Just joking – how many smilies do I have to use?

But I was right, wasn’t I

 

[Mr. Do]

I'm amused that he's saying that the indiscriminate nature of the policy is being used to discriminate against ethnic minorities. Well done

 

[PrinceOfLeigh]

In January, it was revealed the Association of Chief Police Officers was working with the Metropolitan Police to develop a more sensitive approach

So Ming is saying something which has already been said? Where's the story?