Can we have an option that eliminates turns of Anarchy?

[Snofru1]

Theoretically, you should be able to find the civics you've put at -1 (from here 0 should be sufficient as well unless another global value I saw but didn't track down the value of increases all civics by +1) should have no anarchy time at all after my next commit. You'll have to let me know for sure though.

It works as follows now in my game. I´m not exactly sure if it is what you have intended:

iAnarchyLength = -1: 0 turns of Anarchy (thank you!)
iAnarchyLength = 0: 26 turns of Anarchy
iAnarchyLength = 1: 30 turns of Anarchy
iAnarchyLength = 2: 35 turns of Anarchy

I have observed that changing religions also take 26 turns. Do you have an idea where I could change this in the XML?

 

[Pef]

the heroic 2 promotion actually gives few golden age turns 5% of battles , so having 1-2 units constantly farming barbs/chieftans should allow decent civic change

 

[Thunderbrd]

It works as follows now in my game. I´m not exactly sure if it is what you have intended:

iAnarchyLength = -1: 0 turns of Anarchy (thank you!)
iAnarchyLength = 0: 26 turns of Anarchy
iAnarchyLength = 1: 30 turns of Anarchy
iAnarchyLength = 2: 35 turns of Anarchy

I have observed that changing religions also take 26 turns. Do you have an idea where I could change this in the XML?

I can live with the way Anarchy is as you show it though, perhaps if I cut the anarchy time modifiers from education in half... mind... when you say you have 'highly' educated cities, just how educated do you mean? The design goal was to make it best to have a fair education but potentially severely problematic if it went too high. If your cities are at 8-10 education buildings each then we're about on target (and the problem is probably more that education is too easily increased and not hard enough to keep up.)


Oh... as for religion:

	<Define>
		<DefineName>BASE_RELIGION_ANARCHY_LENGTH</DefineName>
		<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
	</Define>

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think we currently only have things that add education. I thought we were going to have housing use the education based on population.

 

[Snofru1]

I can live with the way Anarchy is as you show it though, perhaps if I cut the anarchy time modifiers from education in half... mind... when you say you have 'highly' educated cities, just how educated do you mean?

Let´s see (I´m in early Industrial Age now):
1st city: Education: 1339 means 7 Education buildings at tag "Special"
2nd city: Education: 1109 means 7 Education buildings
3rd city: Education: 1000 means 7 Education buildings
4th city: Education: 1106 means 7 Education buildings
5th city: Education: 1197 means 7 Education buildings
6th city: Education: 1094 means 7 Education buildings
and so on.

In total I have 27 cities with Education above 900 and and more than 30 cities with less (standard size map, yes, I dominate the world ).

Each Education building says "+1% Anarchy Length". Is this cumulative for all my cities? That would explain a lot...

So this means I need to make my people more stupid so that I can easily introduce a new and improved way of life?

Oh... as for religion:

Thank you !

 

[Snofru1]

Oh... as for religion:

Originally Posted by in Assets/XML/GlobalDefines.xml
Code:
<Define>
<DefineName>BASE_RELIGION_ANARCHY_LENGTH</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
</Define>

I changed the value to 0 and -1 but still have turns of Anarchy (18 when I use -1). Sorry for being such a nuisance...

 

[Faustmouse]

have you tried values below -1? Or maybe very big numbers that could possibly cause an overflow?

 

[Snofru1]

have you tried values below -1? Or maybe very big numbers that could possibly cause an overflow?

Not a bad idea! Changing the value to -5 (didn´t check the other ones) did result in 0 turns of Anarchy.

 

[Thunderbrd]

People are always suspicious of change and the more educated they are the more they'll want to get in and debate it to death. Even if its an improvement, it may not be welcomed as one as any change will always disadvantage one group or another and the more educated those disadvantaged groups, the more they'll resist the change and with greater ability. This is the reason for the modifier.

You can see why I'd prefer to work it on a National level rather than a city level though. 5% modifier for each level... maybe best to have a second autobuilding for this that only emerges when the city is the capital? hmm... That'd probably strike the chord I'm looking for better.

And yeah, it's cumulative for all of those buildings everywhere which does add up to too much despite only being 1%. And again, it might be arguable that education may be too easily held at a high level... all of those at 7... might be a little too easy but it should be possible so if you've really made it a value for you then it shouldn't be out of reach to achieve that but if you've just been going along without trying to enhance education then perhaps its overall too easy to get to that point.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is currently not possible to get negative education.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Even if you build no education buildings? Aren't population points still draining education levels at all?

 

[Faustmouse]

Aren't population points still draining education levels at all?

I also thought so. Otherwise his Education in Renaissance should be much higher than 1000.
We need Education linked to much more stuff then it is right now. It's really unpolished.

 

[Snofru1]

Anarchy times are back to reasonable levels with the newest SVN (4 turns minimum in my game) !

 

[Thunderbrd]

I went extremely light... only 5% modifier each building stage... I'm thinking of doubling it since it only now affects one city, making a -100% to 100% modifier scale for the National education buildings. Do you think I may have enough room for this?

 

[Snofru1]

Do you think I may have enough room for this?

Maybe I am the wrong person to ask - I prefer to have no Anarchy at all. But when I compare to what we had before I´d say that doubling the maximum should be ok.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Just to be awkward - I suppose you could have a general anarchy whose length is determined by the city which would have the least anarchy affected by education and then have each city be in individual anarchy for their remaining turns from the education etc. This would be able to be shortened by the use of Story Tellers.

naturally what you have now would be the default and this would be an option Advanced Anarchy perhaps.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Maybe I am the wrong person to ask - I prefer to have no Anarchy at all. But when I compare to what we had before I´d say that doubling the maximum should be ok.

lol... I thought about that after I posted it. Then again if YOU say it should be fine then it's probably more accurate comin' from you. Btw, are you turning it off on everything? I'd love to turn it off on civics that wouldn't represent a major governmental structure or regime change. Bit too much work for me at the moment though.

Just to be awkward - I suppose you could have a general anarchy whose length is determined by the city which would have the least anarchy affected by education and then have each city be in individual anarchy for their remaining turns from the education etc. This would be able to be shortened by the use of Story Tellers.

naturally what you have now would be the default and this would be an option Advanced Anarchy perhaps.

I've thought of that before... interesting concept indeed. Perhaps later in development of the mod I might wish to explore this further.

 

[Snofru1]

Btw, are you turning it off on everything? I'd love to turn it off on civics that wouldn't represent a major governmental structure or regime change. Bit too much work for me at the moment though.

Yes, everything, out of simplicity reasons. But I do not exploit it - I don´t change around the civics all the time. If I have a small war to do (e.g. eliminating this pesky 2-city-neighbour that continues to send Rogues and Spys) I don´t switch to war civics and back shortly after that. So I do understand that having a mechanism in place to avoid the exploit makes sense.

 

[Faustmouse]

I think for now it would be good if most civic don't cause Anarchy and Goverment etc changes cause a little bit.

 

[Necratoid]

A bit of a warning... does anyone remember why spiritual leaders lost the 'no anarchy' trait in the first place? I do.

See in a 14k turn game spiritual leaders managed to form impossibly huge, infinitely stable empires. Crazy fast. Like by turn 900 a spiritual leader had 50+ cities and late medieval tech and wasn't a science boosted leader. For a few versions Spiritual leaders were like a zombie plague that needed to be cleansed from the earth before it became impossible to stop. Continent maps were unbeatable, if a spiritual leader spawned on any other continent.

Now this was 15 version releases ago and much has changed sense then. However, its worth remembering what when hideously wrong in the past.

A lesser issue is that as turns of anarchy decrease the likelihood of AI CIVs changing Civics randomly and repeatedly increases. Too many Civs in a game and every third turn includes meaningless random civics changes slowly filling the message bar for minor eternities.
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On a side note, are you remembering to include increases anarchy length modifiers for when a civic changes to something like slavery after a more liberal civic was used? Also, after something like police state or communism is invoked the education modifiers should be all warped as the 'grand purges' happen and all the intellectuals are put up against the wall.