[GS] Canada Discussion Thread

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: We're in the Canada discussion thread and we seem to have veered into an Eleanor discussion. Please let's head back to Canada. Thanks.

 

[shaglio]

The Hockey Rink looks to be a strong source of culture and tourism, even though it arrives late. This should synergize with Canada's additional diplomatic favor from tourism. Late game culture might be a bit more valuable now that there is an additional era at the end.

This got me thinking . . . sometimes I'll play a game with a specific Victory Condition in mind. But then things don't go according to plan and I have to switch tracks and try to pull off a Science Victory instead. With Canada, if things don't go according to plan, I'll have to option to switch to either a Science Victory or a Cultural Victory late in the game.

Also: Just because Canada has Tundra bonuses doesn't mean you have to build all your cities in Tundra. You can build some in the Tundra, some out of the Tundra, and still others on the border.

Also Also: Quite often I find myself lacking a specific strategic or luxury resource and the only unsettled place that it's available is a small Tundra-heavy island near the pole. I usually hesitate to settle there because I know the city will be crap for the rest of the game. But with Canada, that spot will be less crappy for me.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I suppose you'll get those free "tundra/snow city" era points.

 

[pgm123]

If so, they should have gone with Armenia, because Georgia's Eastern Orthodox, not Oriental Orthodox AKA non-Chalcedonian Christianity.

I doubt Firaxis knows the difference. It seems like a common issue too. Maps of world religions group Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and group Roman Catholic and the Church of the East (presumably because there are groups who broke from the Church of the East and are now in communion with the Roman church).

This got me thinking . . . sometimes I'll play a game with a specific Victory Condition in mind. But then things don't go according to plan and I have to switch tracks and try to pull off a Science Victory instead. With Canada, if things don't go according to plan, I'll have to option to switch to either a Science Victory or a Cultural Victory late in the game.

Also: Just because Canada has Tundra bonuses doesn't mean you have to build all your cities in Tundra. You can build some in the Tundra, some out of the Tundra, and still others on the border.

Also Also: Quite often I find myself lacking a specific strategic or luxury resource and the only unsettled place that it's available is a small Tundra-heavy island near the pole. I usually hesitate to settle there because I know the city will be crap for the rest of the game. But with Canada, that spot will be less crappy for me.

Don't forget that Canada will be strong in Diplomatic victory too. You might be able to collect diplomatic favor to use as a backup plan. And I think you've really nailed the ideal settlement strategy for Canada--you can go closer to tundra, but aren't required to do so, at least not early.

 

[shaglio]

I would encourage you to explain why this is not a valid reason, when we have roughly ten of them that would be better suited for the game in every manner except for a petty marketing boost, and at least one of them is getting cut even if a third expansion happens as a result of Canada.

Don't bury your head in the sand and pretend that opportunity cost doesn't exist. Argue why Canada has more merit than all of them, or it's a bad civ.

The complaint that a civ such as Canada is included at the expense of other civs such as the Maya or Babylon, is invalid because we have absolutely zero proof that the latter civs were ever being considered for inclusion in Civ 6. Just because some people are clamoring for a certain civ doesn't mean it was ever on Firaxis' radar in the first place. Some people seem to be acting as if the devs were all sitting around a table deciding on whether Canada or Byzantium should be the last civ to make the cut, and they took a vote and Canada came out in front.

EDIT: For all we know, it was Hungary or the Maori that took the last spots and caused those other civs to be excluded.

 

[Guandao]

The complaint that a civ such as Canada is included at the expense of other civs such as the Maya or Babylon, is invalid because we have absolutely zero proof that the latter civs were ever being considered for inclusion in Civ 6. Just because some people are clamoring for a certain civ doesn't mean it was ever on Firaxis' radar in the first place.

So? Maya and Babylon have been in the previous Civ games. Why wouldn't Firaxis consider them for inclusion in Civ6? They are definitely on Firaxis' radar given that they were made into City-States.

 

[shaglio]

So? Maya and Babylon have been in the previous Civ games. Why wouldn't Firaxis consider them for inclusion in Civ6? They are definitely on Firaxis' radar given that they were made into City-States.

Perhaps that fact that they are City-States indicates that they were never intended to be full civs all along. Or maybe they were - my point is that we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

Some people seem to be acting as if the devs were all sitting around a table deciding on whether Canada or Byzantium should be the last civ to make the cut, and they took a vote and Canada came out in front.

Dev team member with a green card that nobody realizes is Canadian: "Um, maybe Canada?"

Scots loving dev team member: "As long as we don't spend too much time on 'em, so there's time on the production schedule to nerf England again."

Everyone else: "Sure, okay. Does anyone want to try that new shawarma restaurant for lunch today?"

 

[Furycrab]

So? Maya and Babylon have been in the previous Civ games. Why wouldn't Firaxis consider them for inclusion in Civ6? They are definitely on Firaxis' radar given that they were made into City-States.

Having been in a previous title isn't exactly a plus, especially if it's civ 5. I think there's a reasonable expectation from players for them to do something different if possible.

They also try for themes and civs that can interact differently with the new mechanics. This expansion, it's a new Diplo victory, world Congress, and natural disasters...

I don't see anything with the Mayans or Babylon that would immediately make that shortlist. Except maybe 2012 .

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

https://twitter.com/GeoffKnorr/status/1072882172959358976?s=19

Canada First Listen

 

[Guandao]

Having been in a previous title isn't exactly a plus, especially if it's civ 5. I think there's a reasonable expectation from players for them to do something different if possible.

They also try for themes and civs that can interact differently with the new mechanics. This expansion, it's a new Diplo victory, world Congress, and natural disasters...

I don't see anything with the Mayans or Babylon that would immediately make that shortlist. Except maybe 2012 .

The absence of the Maya is a travesty. They were more important than the Aztecs in the grand scheme of things. They have viable female leaders.
I have a small hope they will be added after GS, but a really small hope.

https://twitter.com/GeoffKnorr/status/1072882172959358976?s=19

Canada First Listen

The Ancient and Medieval themes don't sound like O Canada. I like those versions.

 

[Saltcreek]

I think the music is fine. I am ok with O Canada being worked into some ages.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I think the music is fine. I am ok with O Canada being worked into some ages.

I like the early era music, but I'm going to have to play the second half of the game standing up.

 

[Saltcreek]

The early music is very Canadian. Hearing that music did make me smile a bit and think "yep, that is Canada" and it was nice to hear it since I have been gone from Canada for so long.

 

[Kataklysm]

The early music is very Canadian. Hearing that music did make me smile a bit and think "yep, that is Canada" and it was nice to hear it since I have been gone from Canada for so long.

Very québécois, if you ask me! I'm happy that the canadian musical theme is not recycled era after era in favor of some unique melodies. Sometimes the soundtrack gets so repetitive and annoying (looking at you Scarborough Fair) that it makes me switch to a personal playlist or even quit the game.

 

[blackcatatonic]

The complaint that a civ such as Canada is included at the expense of other civs such as the Maya or Babylon, is invalid because we have absolutely zero proof that the latter civs were ever being considered for inclusion in Civ 6. Just because some people are clamoring for a certain civ doesn't mean it was ever on Firaxis' radar in the first place. Some people seem to be acting as if the devs were all sitting around a table deciding on whether Canada or Byzantium should be the last civ to make the cut, and they took a vote and Canada came out in front.

EDIT: For all we know, it was Hungary or the Maori that took the last spots and caused those other civs to be excluded.

Agreed. Further to this, what bothers me about the "X Civ took the place of Y Civ" argument is that it assumes criteria for Civ selection that may not apply. What if they decided they were going to include a modern colonial Civ regardless and it was Canada in place of Mexico or South Africa?

I think assuming that the Devs are working off a prioritised list of Civs ranked by worthiness of inclusion is only going to result in disappointment. The one thing that's clear from their choices for Civ VI and its expansions is that they like to throw a few surprises in the mix alongside the fan-favourites. This means that not only will not every fan-favourite make it in at all, but there are bound to be a few head-scratchers in there.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

Very québécois, if you ask me! I'm happy that the canadian musical theme is not recycled era after era in favor of some unique melodies. Sometimes the soundtrack gets so repetitive and annoying (looking at you Scarborough Fair) that it makes me switch to a personal playlist or even quit the game.

Mine seems to always play "Waltzing Matilda" the rest of the game the second I meet Australia

 

[Zaarin]

I doubt Firaxis knows the difference. It seems like a common issue too. Maps of world religions group Eastern and Oriental Orthodox and group Roman Catholic and the Church of the East (presumably because there are groups who broke from the Church of the East and are now in communion with the Roman church).

Sadly true.

The complaint that a civ such as Canada is included at the expense of other civs such as the Maya or Babylon, is invalid because we have absolutely zero proof that the latter civs were ever being considered for inclusion in Civ 6.

You're taking the wording too literally. At the end of the day, there are a fixed number of civs, meaning that every civ included is another civ that is not included. It's a zero sum game. Therefore it's fair to say that Canada and Australia are "taking the place of" Maya and Babylon, not because they were literally chosen to replace those civs but because in the zero-sum game of civ inclusion these modern nations have been included and are therefore holding slots that could have been occupied by the Maya or Babylon.

Does anyone want to try that new shawarma restaurant for lunch today?

Yes, please.

They also try for themes and civs that can interact differently with the new mechanics. This expansion, it's a new Diplo victory, world Congress, and natural disasters...

I don't see anything with the Mayans or Babylon that would immediately make that shortlist. Except maybe 2012 .

I'd say Babylon, an empire unified out of an assortment of city-states, would be a reasonable civ to give diplomatic abilities. The Maya were ultimately destroyed by natural disasters, but in our civ alternate universe rooted more in pop culture than history they actually seem a fairly obvious choice to give abilities related to mitigating natural disasters.

https://twitter.com/GeoffKnorr/status/1072882172959358976?s=19

Canada First Listen

Love the Ancient version, and Medieval is nice too.

The early music is very Canadian. Hearing that music did make me smile a bit and think "yep, that is Canada" and it was nice to hear it since I have been gone from Canada for so long.

I'm going to have to hunt down some Canadian folk music, then, because to me it sounds very much like a cousin of bluegrass and Americana.

Mine seems to always play "Waltzing Matilda" the rest of the game the second I meet Australia

I've had the good fortune not to be haunted by those unnerving didgeridoos since I disabled Australia.

 

[Saltcreek]

Oh there is definitely some bluegrass to it but that sound is also the music you will hear in the prairies.

 

[Uberfrog]

I'm going to have to hunt down some Canadian folk music, then, because to me it sounds very much like a cousin of bluegrass and Americana

Since it all developed from the folk music of the English, Scottish and Irish settlers, it makes perfect sense. A little less African influence up in Canada (so not as much banjo as bluegrass), and a little more French, but many shared traditions nonetheless.