[GS] Canada Livestream Discussion

[CivLuvah]

Super excited to try out all these new features. I'm not thrilled about Rock Bands being purchased with Faith though. We already have Great Musicians, what if rock bands were formed by combining musicians the way you combine military units into Corps and Armies? You could combine Paul McCartney and John Lennon into the Beatles or mix it up and make a band with Hendrix. Elvis and Beethoven!

How I view this is that Great Musicians are for classical music while rock bands are for popular music.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

- It sounds as though the Congress will start right from the start of the game, which seems counterimmersive and also I wonder how it will work when civs aren't all in contact with each other. I can see it potentially becoming intrusive.

I might be wrong but I thought that it started once you reach about the modern era however you can accumulate diplomatic favor throughout the game.

- Rock bands are a silly idea, though the mechanic seems fun and entertainingly over the top. Thematically I wonder why they didn't just use Great Musicians generically to do that, much as they did with Civ V, so that they function a bit differently from other GPs. They could always use the names of rock musicians. Though I do now want a band called the Overpowered Wombats or Flaming Science. The Indie Rock promotion seems inappropriate - shouldn't that be Protest Songs, the sort designed to incite agitators?

I like this approach and I find it another way to make cultural victory more active by allowing other units to go outside the boundaries of your civs such as the archaeologist, where we already have many units doing that for domination, obviously, and religion.

- Bologna is a blue (Maritime?) CS, which is new. New type or just change of clothes for an existing type?

It's Science, they just made it a different color blue. They have the same suzerain bonus as Stockholm which we saw in the Maori livestream I believe.

 

[PhilBowles]

I might be wrong but I thought that it started once you reach about the modern era however you can accumulate diplomatic favor throughout the game.

The first save was in the Industrial era, and I think it was mentioned in an earlier stream that it may be active the whole game.

I like this approach and I find it another way to make cultural victory more active by allowing other units to go outside the boundaries of your civs such as the archaeologist, where we already have many units doing that for domination, obviously, and religion.

In terms of sheer tedious makework I can't imagine anything more obnoxious than making other victories similar to religion - the rock bands look fun but I'm guessing the novelty will wear off.

 

[tedhebert]

Wow... Really really loved that livestream... probably the best one ever !

Most of my comments and feeling have been written, so I'll just add a few things I haven't really read:

1) Pretty lame to not even build ONE single farm on tundra, on a livestream that is supposed to show the features of Canada
2) Even in Modern era, Hamilton still was a 1 pop city, so... no, with the current bonuses, Canada will NOT be a tundra civ

I just LOVE the idea of Rock Band... Just love the silliness of it !

I think the World Congress and Emergencies that it can create will be a lot of fun, and add a lot of flavor to a currently bland end game

Also:

What’s going on with the aqueduct symbol in this capture?

Very good question... Is it possible that it's an indication that one of the three features that will stop a flood has been built in that city ??? Visual reminder ?

***EDIT*** Also, I love the way that they passed that WC resolution to weaken loyalty for hungary, while it was in a dark age... For those that feel that the rock band promotion Indie flipped it with 1 charge and that is is totally OP, remember that the target city was already in loyalty warning mode... It's probably still OP, and Ed mentioned they know it, but it's not an instant 1 charge flip

 

[The googles do nothing]

So are those tourism yields from rock bands really large? That feels like it dwarfs the other methods, but that probably because I have not paid attention.

Are there going to be some new resource types that rock bands consume? (Somebody had to say it)

So, Russia will be the best civ to create rock bands, and religious rock is the most most powerful?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

I wasn't paying attention during the stream, but did the Rock bands trigger Canada's Four Faces of Peace ability giving them 1 Diplomatic Favor per every 100 tourism? If so that ability is a little stronger than we originally thought.

So Justin Beiber is improving our standing at the UN? I wouldn't have guessed …

***EDIT*** Also, I love the way that they passed that WC resolution to weaken loyalty for hungary, while it was in a dark age...

It seemed very random and chaotic. Think about it from the other perspective. There are 16 possible outcomes to that resolution (on standard settings: 8 possible targets x 2 options for each). If you're Hungary, do you get any clues that some AI leader is going to nominate you? If you do, how do you defend against that? Pick another AI leader, choose option A or B for them, and hope that you landed on the same choices as another civ or two so that your pick ended up with more votes than are cast against you?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

So are those tourism yields from rock bands really large?

It looks like a pretty wide range of outcomes. It could be pittance, it could be an avalanche.

Lots of players are going to be really happy when they start losing culture games because an AI leader gets lucky with a single Rock Band that keeps hitting it out of the park while they pump out a stream of bands that keep breaking up after their first concert.

 

[AriochIV]

1) Pretty lame to not even build ONE single farm on tundra, on a livestream that is supposed to show the features of Canada

That may just be an indication of how useless that particular feature is.

 

[Wingednosering]

Just want to say that while Canada unique are a bit disappointing, the World Congress stuff looks GREAT. That's exactly the sort of diplomatic intrigue I've been wanting in Civ forever and something Canada fits in really well with.

So what other civs are we expecting? I'm not in the loop thos time around. Seeing lots of Sweden talk, but any word of the Inca, Maya, Byzantines or Ottomans? At least three of those four are basically required at this point.

 

[PhilBowles]

It looks like a pretty wide range of outcomes. It could be pittance, it could be an avalanche.

Lots of players are going to be really happy when they start losing culture games because an AI leader gets lucky with a single Rock Band that keeps hitting it out of the park while they pump out a stream of bands that keep breaking up after their first concert.

Not altogether unrealistic - imagine the AI leader has The Beatles.

That may just be an indication of how useless that particular feature is.

I recall that some bonuses, like Korea's, were still being tweaked in Rise and Fall when the civ was previewed. Any chance that Canada may end up with a bigger bonus than they get at present?

Just want to say that while Canada unique are a bit disappointing, the World Congress stuff looks GREAT. That's exactly the sort of diplomatic intrigue I've been wanting in Civ forever and something Canada fits in really well with.

Having a diplomatic civ is welcome, but Sweden is in the same expansion so Canada still seems surplus to requirements.

So what other civs are we expecting? I'm not in the loop thos time around. Seeing lots of Sweden talk, but any word of the Inca, Maya, Byzantines or Ottomans? At least three of those four are basically required at this point.

The remaining civs (per an effectively confirmed leak) are all returning civs (Phoenicia just being Carthage with a new name):

Inca
Mali
Ottomans
Phoenicia
Sweden

The new leader for an existing civ is Eleanor of Aquitaine - it's been rumoured she'll be able to be selected as leader of both England and France.

 

[Sagax]

I recall that some bonuses, like Korea's, were still being tweaked in Rise and Fall when the civ was previewed. Any chance that Canada may end up with a bigger bonus than they get at present?

It could go either way. For every tweaked Hwarang there is an non-tweaked Tsikhe in the game.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

How I view this is that Great Musicians are for classical music while rock bands are for popular music.

In game, Great Musicians first appear in Industrial Era, and mostly in Modern and Atomic Era, and they are for classical music?

 

[CivLuvah]

In game, Great Musicians first appear in Industrial Era, and mostly in Modern and Atomic Era, and they are for classical music?

People still make classical music even during the 20th and 21st centuries. Schoenberg, John Cage, Philip Glass, Arvo Pärt, John Adams (whose compositions were featured in Civ4)... All composers whose work is considered as classical, and they all lived or were born during the modern and atomic eras.

 

[Arianrhod]

So what other civs are we expecting? I'm not in the loop thos time around. Seeing lots of Sweden talk, but any word of the Inca, Maya, Byzantines or Ottomans? At least three of those four are basically required at this point.

Inca and Ottomans are safe.

Unless we get a third expansion, and there is little historic basis for one, the Maya and Byzantium are just gone. Even if we get a third expansion it wouldn't surprise me if Byzantium is still gone just because there are so many other key players absent, they already sort of have the sentiment between Rome, Georgia, and the various Greeks, and this game's entire M.O. is adding new civilizations at the expense of old ones so it's doubtful they'll just add nine absentees and call it a day.

 

[CivLuvah]

As someone who loves pop music, I hope someone would make a mod soon in which they include "pop star" as well. Maybe even have a "world song contest" emergency event.

And no, I'm not going to make any apologies.

 

[sonicmyst]

I guess the best way to help improve Canada is to make its district and improvements resistant to blizzard. Russia has their units immune to damage by blizzard, so I think Canadian buildings and improvements is a good alternative bonus for a tundra civ.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

The Canadian theme should be "Blame Canada" .

 

[Steamboat Willem]

So are those tourism yields from rock bands really large? That feels like it dwarfs the other methods, but that probably because I have not paid attention.

Are there going to be some new resource types that rock bands consume? (Somebody had to say it)

So, Russia will be the best civ to create rock bands, and religious rock is the most most powerful?

Rock bands mostly only work against one Civ, other tourism works against all civs at the same time.

 

[Josephias]

I was thinking the same thing - it feels weird to have great musicians and they are not involved with the Rock Band. Already Great Musicians seem weird b/c there are so few slots -- giving them the extra ability to form a (high-experience?) band would seem to make sense --- and you could still maintain the fiction of using "faith" to buy them since you can use faith to buy great people.

I'm pretty sure we won't get enough great musicians to generate the potential number of Rock Bands we want to be used, but I agree it would be cool if great Musicians had an extra hability to super-power Rock Bands (sort how great generals/admirals work, either as aura, or as the retire ability providing an XP boost).

How I view this is that Great Musicians are for classical music while rock bands are for popular music.

But you know Symphonic Rock and performing with actual orchestras has been riding quite high for some time now… so ¿why not combine?

 

[JimGrumpypants]

1) Pretty lame to not even build ONE single farm on tundra, on a livestream that is supposed to show the features of Canada

That may just be an indication of how useless that particular feature is.

Or.... It would be building a farm. On tundra.
One of the most basic actions in the game, on slightly a different tile than usual.

I doubt any of us need the visual to imagine what that will be like.