Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I say we do Masonry and Monotheism next, that is the best way to go under all circumstances.
Cavaleiros Embassy & Intelligence
- Thread starter Provolution
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Indiansmoke
Deity
Maybe we should communicate this plan to Cavaleiros and see what they think...lets not present it as definate but as a possibility we are thinking about?
They owe us some beackers, so this exchange should make up partly for the lost beackers.
They owe us some beackers, so this exchange should make up partly for the lost beackers.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Ok, Smokey, first thing I will contact Niklas on the matter. OR is clearly the best way to go, due to our massive religion spread. We should heavily consider S Paya, if we also get Judaism, so we get Free Religion, or other religious civics we need.
cav scout
The Continuum
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Masonry and Monotheism for Mathmatics would reduce the beaker gap with Cav from 120 to 45 (if we don't count hunting which we ended up not trading). At this point I think we can right off the remaining 45 
for the fuedalism gambit and call it even with Cav.
for the fuedalism gambit and call it even with Cav.
Here's the latest communique from Team Cav:
Greetings and salutations to our esteemed brothers in Kazakhstan,
We are very happy to hear of your impressive research progress! We
would be most happy to receive Masonry right away. We intend to use it
to build a large wall that keeps those pesky barbarians out, they have
cost us far too much already. We wish we could say like you that we
could handle them, but alas, it has come to the point where we feel a
wall is necessary.
We will have Mathematics available for transfer already on turn 77, we
will definitely pass it over as soon as we have it. We have no
immediate use for Code of Laws, other than possibly as a prerequisite,
but we will tell you when we could use it.
As for research, we must admit we are quite surprised to hear you
speak of Metal Casting at this point. We were so convinced that you
would be going for Civil Service next, since that is so obviously the
biggest prize available at this point. Knowing how to properly file
forms will make our respective capitals quite astonishing, immediately
on discovery a +50% increase of both hammer and commerce output. Metal
Casting on the other hand would give access to Forges, giving +25%
hammers only, and +1 happiness (for you with Gold), but at a very
hefty price of 120 hammers each, with a very long return of interest
time. Even with the +25% bonus that OR brings, it's still 96 base
hammers recovered at a rate of 1 hammer per 4 base hammers invested.
And since both our nations are glorious kingdoms now, +1 happiness
could easily be gotten much cheaper than that.
So, we would like to urge you strongly to reconsider and go for Civil
Service as soon as you receive Mathematics from us. If you decide not
to, we would see ourselves forced to go down that route instead. But
clearly your research is still quite a lot faster than ours, thanks to
your magnificent combination of Financial, the Gold and your early
Academy, so it would make more sense for you to do it. However, we are
indeed the team with a GNP of 80+ (88 this turn), so we are not slow
in comparison to all, just to our great brothers in Kazakhstan.
(For the record, all graphs are 2 turns delayed.) We would
much rather go for Currency next, while you go for CS, to increase our
mutual trade benefits.
Mad Scientists report they will have Sailing in 3-4 turns. We have no
idea what is taking them so long, but we knew when we
signed them on that they would be the slowest team in research. Have
you sent a workboat our way yet, to get that coastal route? We have
not yet discussed with MS what they should go for next. Are you truly
in need of Archery? We would actually much rather skip that
completely. We might suggest to them the Aesthetics route, if you go
for CS and we go for Currency.
Another possibility that MS themselves have brought up in earlier
conversations is for them to go for Theology (after receiveing
Monotheism), to further deny religions from SANCTA/Saturn, and for the
interesting possibilities that come with the Apostolic Palace.
We've heard little from SANCTA of late, but we are still hoping they
will consider a trade of MC for Alphabet. It would definitely be a
larger gain for our alliance than it would for them. We will send them
another propos on the matter.
We hope to hear back from you soon - we do need to decide on these
research goals quite soon after all!
In eternal friendship,
Niklas dos Cavaleiros
donsig
Low level intermediary
Oh wow, they are going to try to build the Great Wall. (Sommers: 
)
Well, if we want the Great Library and forges it seems we'll have to get a trade with SANCTA after all - since it sure sounds like Team Cav will go for Civil Service if we tell them we are going to do aesthetics. Team cav might also do aesthetics but only if we do civil service. No room for metal casting here.
The Mad Ones might be talked into doing metal casting but that would probably take a tlong time for them to tech it. Theology would seem to take forever at their tech rate.
)Well, if we want the Great Library and forges it seems we'll have to get a trade with SANCTA after all - since it sure sounds like Team Cav will go for Civil Service if we tell them we are going to do aesthetics. Team cav might also do aesthetics but only if we do civil service. No room for metal casting here.
The Mad Ones might be talked into doing metal casting but that would probably take a tlong time for them to tech it. Theology would seem to take forever at their tech rate.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Good!!
lets forget metal casting for now. We can go aesthetics and I suggest they go currency...then after literature we can tech CS and they can tech metal casting.
I am also against giving Alpha to Sancta...let them tech it themselves.
lets forget metal casting for now. We can go aesthetics and I suggest they go currency...then after literature we can tech CS and they can tech metal casting.
I am also against giving Alpha to Sancta...let them tech it themselves.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
No alpha to Sancta. Yet, I think Metal Casting would be good, as we get a broader industry base that will kick in.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Another chat message coming in from Cav, Oyzar this time. No need to burn me on a stake, you guys that criticize me all the time. I am just forwarding this one.
donsig
Low level intermediary
Thanks for the info Provo. If you come across any more tidbits please post them in a timely manner like you did this one.
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
Sometimes the slippery argument "IRL" strikes me to, and I am tired of reiterating that sometimes an incoming chatline may be left unattended too.
donsig
Low level intermediary
We've met Saturn and they have not met SANCTA. We need to confer with Team Cav about including Saturn with us to further isolate Sancta. I must work today so I can't prepare a note. If there's any chat contact please post it in the team forums. Thanks.
Yes Lord Parkin just made a comment in the UN page suggesting that their team is basically on auto pilot until some big decision comes up, they don't discuss much otherwise. L. Parkin also commented that they wished that they had some diplomatic messages to discuss... So maybe us initiating first contact is in order
Can we send a message to Cavalieros that we are unhappy about their "next tech" plans, or do we just accept that we have no tech leverage? If we have no tech leverage, then I reject any further attempts to increase commerce. Commerce is pointless if we have no tech leverage. If we can't force Cav to tech Aesthetics, then we should reduce tech to continue REX.
cav scout
The Continuum
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Commerce is pointless if we give away everything we get to CAV in unbalanced trades. But if we insist that there is fairness in trades then we can pull ahead tech wise. If we can pull ahead in tech while maintaining our military and expansion at a decent rate we can win the game. It would be nice to go after macemen with redcoats when the time is right after all 
Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I think we need to agree on a set of criteria to be met, objective criteria, that will trigger us to change our alliance structure.
I can see the following strategy with Cav work out:
We make sure we get Saturn to give us horsebackriding for iron working and Sancta Metal Casting for Alphabet and Polytheism, for example. -Within the premises of the alliance.
I think by the time we can build universities, red coats and stock exchanges, we should have left the Alliance long ago. the question is when.
Cav want us to research CS for them, they do not like much our industrialization focus, which I understand, that they dislike our expansion and industrialization should make a few here think about the internal debate on tech and expansion, as well as wonder strategy.
I think we should keep the following techs as indicators when our alliance should end:
Education
Economics
Nationalism
As we are financial, we would also be in the lead with espionage budgets, as well as research budgets. Philosophical allows us to build universities at double speed.
Team Cavs advantage is stunted by the fact that early navies have little say on Pangea. Feitora suggests that most of their activity has to be naval, they need a lot of ports, therefore, they will be a threat to us on our Western Border if we do not take caution, both in our city planning (the more water we cover culturally, the safer we are, in spotting early Carracks).
Imperalistic and expansive suggests they will have a bigger city base, hence their strong interest for civic-centric technologies we do for them. Courthouses and Bureaucracy, as well as Caste System plays into this.
Our comparative advantage also rests in religion. We got two religions, which enables us to concentrate forces at our rims, as Hereditary Rule is not that important. Forges and our gold bonus in happiness from that, also liberates our core cities , so we can send out more garrison.
I can see the following strategy with Cav work out:
We make sure we get Saturn to give us horsebackriding for iron working and Sancta Metal Casting for Alphabet and Polytheism, for example. -Within the premises of the alliance.
I think by the time we can build universities, red coats and stock exchanges, we should have left the Alliance long ago. the question is when.
Cav want us to research CS for them, they do not like much our industrialization focus, which I understand, that they dislike our expansion and industrialization should make a few here think about the internal debate on tech and expansion, as well as wonder strategy.
I think we should keep the following techs as indicators when our alliance should end:
Education
Economics
Nationalism
As we are financial, we would also be in the lead with espionage budgets, as well as research budgets. Philosophical allows us to build universities at double speed.
Team Cavs advantage is stunted by the fact that early navies have little say on Pangea. Feitora suggests that most of their activity has to be naval, they need a lot of ports, therefore, they will be a threat to us on our Western Border if we do not take caution, both in our city planning (the more water we cover culturally, the safer we are, in spotting early Carracks).
Imperalistic and expansive suggests they will have a bigger city base, hence their strong interest for civic-centric technologies we do for them. Courthouses and Bureaucracy, as well as Caste System plays into this.
Our comparative advantage also rests in religion. We got two religions, which enables us to concentrate forces at our rims, as Hereditary Rule is not that important. Forges and our gold bonus in happiness from that, also liberates our core cities , so we can send out more garrison.
We should get Cav (and MS and Saturn) onboard with attacking SANCTA BEFORE SANCTA gets Masonry (and walls). After SANCTA gets walls, an attack will be impossible for a long time... and we will be stuck with SANCTA. We should try to get rid of one rival as soon as we can.
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