JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
That is usually normal procedure. But to always be safe ask T-brd 1st.
Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
philipschall
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2009
- Messages
- 221
Welp, managed to bust pop and hit 150 before Atomic Age.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Pepper himself admitted his work would need some tweaking - he had everything done through a programmed interface mechanism on his end that would update his module and if we updated to it things would get thrown off on his side, but yeah since he's not currently modding and would admit the need for some adjusting I don't see what option we have at this point.
Kohnoshish
Chieftain
- Joined
- May 16, 2015
- Messages
- 17
Actually, I was going to ask about something that involved Pepper's work, as well.
I was going for a silly "low hurry cost" strat in which I tried to reduce gold hurrying costs - to 0, if possible - using things like the Dynamic, Financial, and Slob traits, as well as Fort Knox, Mercantilism/Regulated, and the Kremlin, and see just how low I could go, and do production with gold instead of hammers if possible. Right now in the Classical era with Complex+Developing traits I've got Financial and Dynamic, and I'm able to hurry things quite cheaply!
However I noticed that some of the hurry gold cost multiples are kind of inconsistent. Some will have a multiplier of 1.35, others 2.72, or 2.02, and so on, so I went diving into the XML. It looks like the biggest difference that stands out to me is that most of the Regular buildings have an iHurryCostModifier of 100. However, Pepper's buildings have no iHurryCostModifier.
I started a new game and tried looking at the hurry cost multipliers then, without investing any hammers (which adds 50% of the base hammers to the cost). C.L. European and Stone Thrower had a 4.5 multiplier. I enabled all technologies, and saw that Palm Islands had a 4.5 multiplier, while Pergammon Altar had a x9 multiplier. C.L. European and Palm Islands don't have an iHurryCostModifier (Palm Islands is a Pepper wonder). Pergammon Altar is a "base" wonder, and it does have an iHurryCostModifier of 100.
Anyway, I'm not sure what to make of this, but I wanted to report it and wasn't sure if this was intended behavior or not.
I was going for a silly "low hurry cost" strat in which I tried to reduce gold hurrying costs - to 0, if possible - using things like the Dynamic, Financial, and Slob traits, as well as Fort Knox, Mercantilism/Regulated, and the Kremlin, and see just how low I could go, and do production with gold instead of hammers if possible. Right now in the Classical era with Complex+Developing traits I've got Financial and Dynamic, and I'm able to hurry things quite cheaply!
However I noticed that some of the hurry gold cost multiples are kind of inconsistent. Some will have a multiplier of 1.35, others 2.72, or 2.02, and so on, so I went diving into the XML. It looks like the biggest difference that stands out to me is that most of the Regular buildings have an iHurryCostModifier of 100. However, Pepper's buildings have no iHurryCostModifier.
I started a new game and tried looking at the hurry cost multipliers then, without investing any hammers (which adds 50% of the base hammers to the cost). C.L. European and Stone Thrower had a 4.5 multiplier. I enabled all technologies, and saw that Palm Islands had a 4.5 multiplier, while Pergammon Altar had a x9 multiplier. C.L. European and Palm Islands don't have an iHurryCostModifier (Palm Islands is a Pepper wonder). Pergammon Altar is a "base" wonder, and it does have an iHurryCostModifier of 100.
Anyway, I'm not sure what to make of this, but I wanted to report it and wasn't sure if this was intended behavior or not.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You've found an area of great inconsistency that would be best resolved with a large building review process similar to what I'm doing with units. There's been some discussions on a github thread about some of the projects I'd hope to include in such a review project as well. Maybe rather than me or any given person diving into that like I'm doing with units now, we should start a thread to discuss us doing this as a group, what new tags and systems to consider and how to review and straighten out forgotten systems and tags as well.
Heads up.
We're planning on breaking saves one more time before releasing v41, might happen within a week, or in three months from now; depending on opinions on the matter.
There was still a lot of reasons to break saves and since we already broke saves since the last release it makes sense to get it over with before making a new releas.
Perhaps then the next dev cycle (v41→42) will be without save breakage.
A git branch has already been made and filled with save breaking commits, just waiting to be merged at some point.
@alberts2 & @AIAndy : Open invitation for you guys to help out in expanding the branch with more save breaking, but advantageous, changes.
https://github.com/caveman2cosmos/Caveman2Cosmos/pull/710
We're planning on breaking saves one more time before releasing v41, might happen within a week, or in three months from now; depending on opinions on the matter.
There was still a lot of reasons to break saves and since we already broke saves since the last release it makes sense to get it over with before making a new releas.
Perhaps then the next dev cycle (v41→42) will be without save breakage.
A git branch has already been made and filled with save breaking commits, just waiting to be merged at some point.
@alberts2 & @AIAndy : Open invitation for you guys to help out in expanding the branch with more save breaking, but advantageous, changes.
https://github.com/caveman2cosmos/Caveman2Cosmos/pull/710
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
lol
If my unit review gets in during that period at all I expect it will be save breaking in effect at least.
But it would take a long while for that to be even ready to start going into the game so maybe there will be another release between then.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I guess I'll need to save a copy of Git Before the SV Break so I can continue my main test game. But don't hold up the Process because of me. Our public needs a New Official Release imhpo.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Hey a question has come up on Discord - does anyone remember what the option to have a maximum city size on some buildings was all about? We're wondering if we need to keep it as an option or just include the tag and ensure it works properly if used for a building. I'm not sure why we would've needed it as an option but maybe someone remembers?
Note: I wouldn't be surprised if I had been the one to suggest it be optional... I just don't recall the convo that led to this much.
Note: I wouldn't be surprised if I had been the one to suggest it be optional... I just don't recall the convo that led to this much.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Where is this Option Located? Game Set up? BUG? A_New_Dawn_GlobalDefines? Where?
It's a hidden game setup option, off by default.
GAMEOPTION_MAXIMUM_POPULATION
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Buildings become inactive when the city exceeds a certain size? Sounds like a great replacement for obsoletion (which needs to be gone). Some people may not like it, prolly why it's an option.
Do any/many buildings have the tag? And I don't think there's any reason why the option should be hidden.
No buildings had this tag, it was hidden because it was WIP.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Did we check modules for ways the tag may have been applied?
Now that you say this, it makes me think that's exactly what was being tested. A possible replacement route for obsoletion.
In fact, what it SHOULD be is part of a larger system that scales buildings with size and makes them more within range of the construction costs of a smaller city for the more foundational buildings upon which small cities are built perhaps.
I search everything in base mod folder and subfolders - there is neat Notepad++ function for that
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
can we PLEASE put back the Great Farmer the way it was, it is a useless unit now, and i mean useless, once u have connected all the cities. .
Too long work time?
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
i mean it used to be the GF was able to put a resource on ur territory bot matter if u have the resource or not, thats why i designed it that way, thats why it is called the Great Farmer .. .
Since we're working on breaking saves again, I'd like to ask:
Do we want to keep the no espionage game option?
Espionage seems to me like a core part of C2C at this point.
The option has the downside of halving the maximum amount of culture a city culture level can be at.
This is due to espionage points being converted to culture points and each culture level value is thus doubled so that player won't pop culture faster without espionage than with it.
There are also other, less significant, code annoyances connected to maintaining the no espionage option.
Do we want to keep the no espionage game option?
Espionage seems to me like a core part of C2C at this point.
The option has the downside of halving the maximum amount of culture a city culture level can be at.
This is due to espionage points being converted to culture points and each culture level value is thus doubled so that player won't pop culture faster without espionage than with it.
There are also other, less significant, code annoyances connected to maintaining the no espionage option.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I personally don't feel we need the option... interested to hear if anyone uses it though.
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