Delving deeper into later era starts -- some are broken, with required buildings and manufactured resources unavailable, etc, -- still, it's fun playing with the later units, nanotech era and later. I'm trying to get these later starts to work with the various space maps, but it seems that those are all locked into prehistoric starts. Is there any way around that? It would be cool if one could start the game in space, in the information era, with the idea that earth has been destroyed/overrun by techno-barbarians, and the goal would be to build up in space and then to reconquer earth. Although there seem to be no "invasion" capable units, i.e. units that can go back and forth between space and earth, other than unarmed shuttles and workers. Would be cool to have "space marines" that are able to operate on earth, perhaps with a penalty due to heavy gear.
Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)
- Thread starter strategyonly
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
AFAIK But starting the Game in any Era except Prehistoric will have problems. Moreso the later the Era you start in. Don't remember this issue every being addressed and fixed. Too complicated for 15 different eras to start with
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Yeah you will often find problems with later era starts. I did a modern era start a while back and it wasn't horrible at the time but that was quite a while ago.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
OT Did you get any flooding? You and Mrs Okay?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You should see the videos on my facebook account - Our poor Subaru almost became a boat floating down the highway that turned to a river in less than 15 minutes. Thankfully, BEING a newer Subaru, it could handle high water and we were able to charge through and get to higher ground as others were stalling out in front of us. Harrowing adventure. Got back home and the back yard was a 2 inch pool of water everywhere - hilarious watching the dog slop through it and whining like, yeah, this is NOT right! Thankfully, no invasive water into the home (but our flooring is still a wreck from the drain pipe repair a year ago so even if there was the floors wouldn't be the concern so much as the low ends of all the walls.) We were just high enough to avoid all that mess.
Amazing what 30 minutes of rain can become here in Vegas.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Thank the LORD you were able to get home and be on higher ground.
June 29th at 11AM the Drecho came thru my property. No damage to house of shed. But my Big Maple tree south of house lost 4 major limbs that reached Northward. The wind took them away from the hose and into the driveway eats of the tree. I cut limbs and branches for a week. Got well over a Cord and a half of maple firewood for this coming winter out od it all.
Be Blessed.
EDIT: Ps. I don't have FB. Left that platform over 5 years ago.
June 29th at 11AM the Drecho came thru my property. No damage to house of shed. But my Big Maple tree south of house lost 4 major limbs that reached Northward. The wind took them away from the hose and into the driveway eats of the tree. I cut limbs and branches for a week. Got well over a Cord and a half of maple firewood for this coming winter out od it all.
Be Blessed.
EDIT: Ps. I don't have FB. Left that platform over 5 years ago.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Summer now gone, garden finished, and work on Shed and Greenhouse waiting on funds.
Started a new game on Small World map with 4 AI on Emperor. Minimalistic Game set up Options. Forgot to check out the barb settings In BUG though as I have a nearby barb city with 167 slingers 21 stone mace and 1 Spearman.
Barb cities need a Cap on number of Mil units a Barb city can have at any given time. 190+ is too much. And No I do not play with Start as Minor Civ Nor Barb World. In fact all Barb Game Setup Options are NOT checked, Basic Default Barbs.
Started a new game on Small World map with 4 AI on Emperor. Minimalistic Game set up Options. Forgot to check out the barb settings In BUG though as I have a nearby barb city with 167 slingers 21 stone mace and 1 Spearman.
Barb cities need a Cap on number of Mil units a Barb city can have at any given time. 190+ is too much. And No I do not play with Start as Minor Civ Nor Barb World. In fact all Barb Game Setup Options are NOT checked, Basic Default Barbs.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Nice you got so much firewood... and maplewood to boot so very nice quality. You ever harvest the sap from that thing? What a nice resource - we're looking forward to having some cactus fruit someday but the weather keeps getting too hot and killing off so much % of the things just as soon as they start doing well. We're about to have a proper garden for them though if I can ever find some time to finish it up. Glad the rough weather didn't hurt the home, that's such a PITA when that happens!
Odinius Arcainius
îƮ§ ƉÅЍĝΞЯØʯ§ Ʈʘ ĝØ ƛŁʘЍΞ
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2018
- Messages
- 83
Posting a suggestion to add the ability to modify Dynamic Leadership Traits from WB. Didn't see this suggestion after a few quick search attempts, so apologies if its already been mentioned.
More specifically, I mean if the option Dynamin Traits is enabled, allow adding/removing available traits from the selected leader. Or if it would be easier to allow trait modifications regardless of the option being in use or not, I could see it being a nice improvement to WB either way.
More specifically, I mean if the option Dynamin Traits is enabled, allow adding/removing available traits from the selected leader. Or if it would be easier to allow trait modifications regardless of the option being in use or not, I could see it being a nice improvement to WB either way.
Last edited:
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
It's been desired from the moment such traits were introduced but I'm not all that capable in python and wb especially and those who did work with the WB, never updated much of any c2c specific details - just imported big improvement sets from outside the mod.
LeanArcticWolf
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2022
- Messages
- 13
Warning: Long Read Ahead, TLDR at the end.
I was thinking about how to make the game more dynamic and create a more ebb and flow, just as our real life seasons do. A time to grow and prosper and there’s a time to hunker down and survive the chaos. The answer to create this dynamism lies in geography and climate change.
Historically, there were several collapses of civilization and periods of great chaos. The bronze age collapse saw the fall of multiple great powers and two great powers that barely clung for dear life. What happened? (Warning- simplified explanation incoming
We’ll the climate changed for the worse. Droughts became a lot more common and global temperature fell, thus hurting food production. The tribal people were the first to suffer from the climate change as they did not have granaries and a government to shift food around. Tribal people north of the Mycenean kingdom out of desperation formed into a horde and attacked the Mycenean kingdom and destroyed the kingdom. The now desperate Myceneans joined the tribal horde and attacked and overwhelmed the Minoans. The desperate Minoans joined them and the now huge horde known as the Sea People would attack the Hittites (overwhelming them) and Egypt barely holds them off (but becomes a dystopian police state in the process). At the same time, other tribal people attacked in all directions out of desperation and perhaps, loot in their mind. The worst attacks, came from the Wastelanders from the South of Assyria and Babylon. They destroyed Babylon and brough Assyria to the brink of collapse.
Later on, the climate warm ups and Egypt and Assyria recover and new empires form. Roman Empire has a warm climate and prospers, but that ends by 400 AD and gets colder. Food production falls and tribal people get hungry, while Rome has its granaries. All the Germans come in and destroy Rome and thus the Dark Ages. Vikings marauded about. Climate warms up and Dark ages end. Climate gets cold again and we have the Little Ice age and religious wars break out. (Think 1600s) Planet warms up again and the US is able to farm the great plains and become a bread basket of the world. Etc. Good thing we weren’t in a cold period during the Cold War…
I hope that my little history lesson showed how climate change can plays a major role in history. When the climate gets colder, the less civilized people suffer more extensively and become desperate and migrate (usually quite violently) into the more civilized lands, which can overwhelm the civilized nations.
How to model this in the game? We’ll I was thinking that it would be for the slower game speeds, the world map would also undergo cycles of cooling and warming, just how our planet did. Cold periods = bad and Warm periods = good. The world would always be either in a warm or cold period. And each period would be divided into 3 phases, such as beginning of warm period, middle of warm period, and end of warm period and ditto for cold period. Warm period increases food and commerce yields, while cold periods decrease food and commerce yields. Does not affect permafrost tiles.
For example: Numbers are just examples and can always be changed for balancing
Beginning of Warm Period Turn 1-30: +1 Food base yield +1 Commerce base yield per tile. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile), +1 to diplomatic relations
Middle of Warm Period Turn 40-60 (Best bonuses): + 3 Food, +3 Commerce. Glaciers contract. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile) +3 to diplomatic relations
End of Warm Period (Turn 70-100): +1 food, +1 commerce. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile) +1 diplomatic relations
Beginning of Cold Period (Turn 100-130): -1 Food base yield, -1 Commerce base yield per tile. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile), -1 to diplomatic relations, +1 warmongering
Middle of Cold Period Turn 120-140) (Worst penalties): -3 food, -3 Commerce. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile). Glaciers expand, -4 diplomatic relations, +3 warmongering
End of Cold Period (Turn 150-170): -1 Food, -1 Commerce, (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile), -2 diplomatic relations, +1 warmongering
Cycle repeats back to Beginning of Warm Period
The diplomatic relation bonus or penalty is between all nations. Hungry people makes a leader more jittery and happily fed people makes the leader more rational.
Warm Periods: Increase chance of getting flooding and hurricane events. Increase chance of positive events (the better things are, the more things work out).
Cold Periods: Tiles will never have a negative yield, lowest it can get is zero. Increase change of getting volcano events. Also guaranteed to receive 1 mega volcanic eruption event during the Middle of the Cold Period that causes -3 Food and -3 Commerce for all tiles and -7 diplomatic relations for one or two or three turns (globally)! Having non state religions in your cities will create additional unhappiness-only negated with freedom of religion as a civic (think of the war of religions-they took place during the Little Ice Age!).
If that wasn’t bad enough, when a city loses a population due to starvation, it creates marauding units (or the revolting peasant/slave unit line) and unrest. These units are desperate rural people who want food and will attack your cities to get any remaining food. Also, when the city is starving, it increases the chance of riots occurring. Separatism also increases if option is enabled.
Now, bar bar cities, get hit particularly hard. When their cities begin starving, they generate a starting marauding unit. Losing a population, will create even more marauding units. Very desperate people. They will coalesce with other marauders and form hordes. Think of this as a Great Migration. These hordes will make their way for nearby civilizations and aim for their cities. Hordes will generally make their way to different cities/civilizations, that way one city doesn’t become the target of all the hordes. If a horde takes over a civilized city, the city is either razed or occupied (50 percent chance for either option). A razed city will create more marauder units than an occupied city. Thus, each city that falls (razed or occupied), the horde will grow larger and larger. Horde moves on to the next city. Lastly, if an AI civ becomes a target of a horde, it will try to desperately make peace with other civs, even if it’s a bad peace treaty. Hopefully, its neighbors are understanding…
Now, it’s not all doom or gloom during the Cold Period. Sometimes, events will pop up to help you (and the AI out). For example, if a horde is approaching your capital, an event can pop up or where you can pay half of your treasury to bribe the horde to attack someone else. Another example, if you have a city that is spiraling down to oblivion, you can have an event where you can enact a famine relief program for a hefty price.
When the warm period begins, marauding units will disappear as they are now happily fed
Also, occupied cites from the marauders have a high chance of turning into a new civilization (50 percent chance it will be the same nation as before, but with a different leader, 50 percent chance it’s a different nation completely). [Maybe, if you lose all your cities and lose, could you chose to play one of the new nations that come?]
Now, this is how I imagine the game would generally play with this dynamism feature: The Cold Period will be the hardest during the Prehistory era (especially since the “civilizations” are really at the same level as the barbarians). Expect the whole geopolitical map to be utterly changed. Also, expect the Cold Period to hit hard the Ancient Era too, especially since there’s many bar bar cites out there. Expect the weakest civs to crumble and become the horde itself. Pretty good chance that most of the other civs will fall after much war or be reduced to a single city or two. Only the strongest civs will survive with more than 2 two cities left. With each successive Cold Period, expect more and more civs to survive and manage through it better due to better farming techniques, less bar bar cities to create hordes, and more advance empires. However, expect more wars between the civs (less hordes = less civs making desperate peace treaties with each other) with the diplomatic penalty and warmongering malus there too. Also, expect the majority of the hordes to form during the Middle of the Cold Period.
So, during the warm periods, that’s the time to build and expand. Have well planned out wars and commit genocide against the bar bars. Trade is good and the people are well fed and they think you are a genius. When the Cold Period arrives, do all you can to survive! The bar bars are ready to commit genocide against you!
This dynamism feature could be a toggle feature, just like how the separatism feature is. This feature should be able to slow down or even prevent the snowballing that occurs in many games. If players had to manage their nations like the seasons of Earth (a time to grow and prepare, and a time to hunker down and not die!), they won’t be able to just keep expanding and expanding forever. This feature is really about a dynamic Earth with a dynamic history. So, if you want to be a giant snowball by the middle of the game, then this feature would not be for you. However, if you want to experience the thrill of an ever changing planet, then this feature would be for you.
P.S This will also make some civics better for either warming or cooling period. For a cooling period, police state style civics would be useful. An example, ethic targeting, where the state makes a minority group the scapegoat, which raises happiness and decreases marauders in cities where your culture is the majority, but the reverse in where your culture is a minority
P.S.S Thank you for taking the time to read my novel and I do appreciate all that you did for this mod.
TLDR: Create a dynamic world by having a feature of climate change where the world warms and cools. Warming periods are times of prosperity and normalcy, while cooling periods are times of chaos, riots, migrations, war, and basic survival. Warm periods have tiles gain food and commerce while cold periods are the opposite. Nations will rise and fall, repeatedly. Hard to snowball with feature.
I was thinking about how to make the game more dynamic and create a more ebb and flow, just as our real life seasons do. A time to grow and prosper and there’s a time to hunker down and survive the chaos. The answer to create this dynamism lies in geography and climate change.
Historically, there were several collapses of civilization and periods of great chaos. The bronze age collapse saw the fall of multiple great powers and two great powers that barely clung for dear life. What happened? (Warning- simplified explanation incoming
We’ll the climate changed for the worse. Droughts became a lot more common and global temperature fell, thus hurting food production. The tribal people were the first to suffer from the climate change as they did not have granaries and a government to shift food around. Tribal people north of the Mycenean kingdom out of desperation formed into a horde and attacked the Mycenean kingdom and destroyed the kingdom. The now desperate Myceneans joined the tribal horde and attacked and overwhelmed the Minoans. The desperate Minoans joined them and the now huge horde known as the Sea People would attack the Hittites (overwhelming them) and Egypt barely holds them off (but becomes a dystopian police state in the process). At the same time, other tribal people attacked in all directions out of desperation and perhaps, loot in their mind. The worst attacks, came from the Wastelanders from the South of Assyria and Babylon. They destroyed Babylon and brough Assyria to the brink of collapse.
Later on, the climate warm ups and Egypt and Assyria recover and new empires form. Roman Empire has a warm climate and prospers, but that ends by 400 AD and gets colder. Food production falls and tribal people get hungry, while Rome has its granaries. All the Germans come in and destroy Rome and thus the Dark Ages. Vikings marauded about. Climate warms up and Dark ages end. Climate gets cold again and we have the Little Ice age and religious wars break out. (Think 1600s) Planet warms up again and the US is able to farm the great plains and become a bread basket of the world. Etc. Good thing we weren’t in a cold period during the Cold War…
I hope that my little history lesson showed how climate change can plays a major role in history. When the climate gets colder, the less civilized people suffer more extensively and become desperate and migrate (usually quite violently) into the more civilized lands, which can overwhelm the civilized nations.
How to model this in the game? We’ll I was thinking that it would be for the slower game speeds, the world map would also undergo cycles of cooling and warming, just how our planet did. Cold periods = bad and Warm periods = good. The world would always be either in a warm or cold period. And each period would be divided into 3 phases, such as beginning of warm period, middle of warm period, and end of warm period and ditto for cold period. Warm period increases food and commerce yields, while cold periods decrease food and commerce yields. Does not affect permafrost tiles.
For example: Numbers are just examples and can always be changed for balancing
Beginning of Warm Period Turn 1-30: +1 Food base yield +1 Commerce base yield per tile. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile), +1 to diplomatic relations
Middle of Warm Period Turn 40-60 (Best bonuses): + 3 Food, +3 Commerce. Glaciers contract. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile) +3 to diplomatic relations
End of Warm Period (Turn 70-100): +1 food, +1 commerce. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile) +1 diplomatic relations
Beginning of Cold Period (Turn 100-130): -1 Food base yield, -1 Commerce base yield per tile. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile), -1 to diplomatic relations, +1 warmongering
Middle of Cold Period Turn 120-140) (Worst penalties): -3 food, -3 Commerce. (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile). Glaciers expand, -4 diplomatic relations, +3 warmongering
End of Cold Period (Turn 150-170): -1 Food, -1 Commerce, (20 percent chance applied individually for each tile), -2 diplomatic relations, +1 warmongering
Cycle repeats back to Beginning of Warm Period
The diplomatic relation bonus or penalty is between all nations. Hungry people makes a leader more jittery and happily fed people makes the leader more rational.
Warm Periods: Increase chance of getting flooding and hurricane events. Increase chance of positive events (the better things are, the more things work out).
Cold Periods: Tiles will never have a negative yield, lowest it can get is zero. Increase change of getting volcano events. Also guaranteed to receive 1 mega volcanic eruption event during the Middle of the Cold Period that causes -3 Food and -3 Commerce for all tiles and -7 diplomatic relations for one or two or three turns (globally)! Having non state religions in your cities will create additional unhappiness-only negated with freedom of religion as a civic (think of the war of religions-they took place during the Little Ice Age!).
If that wasn’t bad enough, when a city loses a population due to starvation, it creates marauding units (or the revolting peasant/slave unit line) and unrest. These units are desperate rural people who want food and will attack your cities to get any remaining food. Also, when the city is starving, it increases the chance of riots occurring. Separatism also increases if option is enabled.
Now, bar bar cities, get hit particularly hard. When their cities begin starving, they generate a starting marauding unit. Losing a population, will create even more marauding units. Very desperate people. They will coalesce with other marauders and form hordes. Think of this as a Great Migration. These hordes will make their way for nearby civilizations and aim for their cities. Hordes will generally make their way to different cities/civilizations, that way one city doesn’t become the target of all the hordes. If a horde takes over a civilized city, the city is either razed or occupied (50 percent chance for either option). A razed city will create more marauder units than an occupied city. Thus, each city that falls (razed or occupied), the horde will grow larger and larger. Horde moves on to the next city. Lastly, if an AI civ becomes a target of a horde, it will try to desperately make peace with other civs, even if it’s a bad peace treaty. Hopefully, its neighbors are understanding…
Now, it’s not all doom or gloom during the Cold Period. Sometimes, events will pop up to help you (and the AI out). For example, if a horde is approaching your capital, an event can pop up or where you can pay half of your treasury to bribe the horde to attack someone else. Another example, if you have a city that is spiraling down to oblivion, you can have an event where you can enact a famine relief program for a hefty price.
When the warm period begins, marauding units will disappear as they are now happily fed
Also, occupied cites from the marauders have a high chance of turning into a new civilization (50 percent chance it will be the same nation as before, but with a different leader, 50 percent chance it’s a different nation completely). [Maybe, if you lose all your cities and lose, could you chose to play one of the new nations that come?]Now, this is how I imagine the game would generally play with this dynamism feature: The Cold Period will be the hardest during the Prehistory era (especially since the “civilizations” are really at the same level as the barbarians). Expect the whole geopolitical map to be utterly changed. Also, expect the Cold Period to hit hard the Ancient Era too, especially since there’s many bar bar cites out there. Expect the weakest civs to crumble and become the horde itself. Pretty good chance that most of the other civs will fall after much war or be reduced to a single city or two. Only the strongest civs will survive with more than 2 two cities left. With each successive Cold Period, expect more and more civs to survive and manage through it better due to better farming techniques, less bar bar cities to create hordes, and more advance empires. However, expect more wars between the civs (less hordes = less civs making desperate peace treaties with each other) with the diplomatic penalty and warmongering malus there too. Also, expect the majority of the hordes to form during the Middle of the Cold Period.
So, during the warm periods, that’s the time to build and expand. Have well planned out wars and commit genocide against the bar bars. Trade is good and the people are well fed and they think you are a genius. When the Cold Period arrives, do all you can to survive! The bar bars are ready to commit genocide against you!
This dynamism feature could be a toggle feature, just like how the separatism feature is. This feature should be able to slow down or even prevent the snowballing that occurs in many games. If players had to manage their nations like the seasons of Earth (a time to grow and prepare, and a time to hunker down and not die!), they won’t be able to just keep expanding and expanding forever. This feature is really about a dynamic Earth with a dynamic history. So, if you want to be a giant snowball by the middle of the game, then this feature would not be for you. However, if you want to experience the thrill of an ever changing planet, then this feature would be for you.
P.S This will also make some civics better for either warming or cooling period. For a cooling period, police state style civics would be useful. An example, ethic targeting, where the state makes a minority group the scapegoat, which raises happiness and decreases marauders in cities where your culture is the majority, but the reverse in where your culture is a minority
P.S.S Thank you for taking the time to read my novel and I do appreciate all that you did for this mod.
TLDR: Create a dynamic world by having a feature of climate change where the world warms and cools. Warming periods are times of prosperity and normalcy, while cooling periods are times of chaos, riots, migrations, war, and basic survival. Warm periods have tiles gain food and commerce while cold periods are the opposite. Nations will rise and fall, repeatedly. Hard to snowball with feature.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
We did do some thinking on this subject a while back and came up with a similar plan idea... unfortunately we're a bit in a deep ice age of dev right now. I'll read this more carefully soon and comment.
LeanArcticWolf
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2022
- Messages
- 13
Glad to hear you all had similar ideas, definitely can't wait to hear your thoughts on this in more detail
Odinius Arcainius
îƮ§ ƉÅЍĝΞЯØʯ§ Ʈʘ ĝØ ƛŁʘЍΞ
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2018
- Messages
- 83
I also find this idea inspiring and think it would add a whole new level of depth and immersion to each playthrough. Would love to see it developed in harmony with the epidemic / plague spread system that has been talked about which was inpired by the plague mechanic from Rhyes anf Fall.
Mr.Misfit
Chieftain
Question: Is there any way to decouple the administrative efficency from government types, that is the maximum number of cities you get before unhappiness due to overextension? Because it seems weird how it is coupled and doesn't really line up with how historically it worked. You should have a monarchy with a great administrative bureaucracy even if its still stuck in olden times government wise. EU4 did this in a good way I think.
ranagrande
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2009
- Messages
- 72
There's an option somewhere that does that. No City Limits From Civics, or something close.
Mr.Misfit
Chieftain
True, but I think I'd rather advise for splitting city limits from government types alltogether is what I'm going for. It's ill-fitting and opens up a new civic category that can take some of the less fitting bureaucratic concepts from the other categories as well.
Another question: Why are only some wonders fixed to civics and others aren't? For example the "Palace of the Soviets" is fixed to Marxist ruling class, but the Reichstag not to Legislature? I could do this for numerous wonders but it just seems strange to fix some and not others when there's such a wide variety of differing civic systems.
Edit: Also to add another feature request: Can we get era-specific customs buildings like the "Ancient Customs"? I'm currently in the Atomic Era at turn 4859 with my Immortal Zulu game and have recently conquered and bribed my way through 19 enemy cities and three opponent civs and the amount of unneccessary clicking is...really really bad. Why do I need to build a Reed Collector again in these cities even though It's the Atomic Era? Can't I just build the latest Customs Building and corresponding buildings up to one era back and be good? My fingers hurt from clicking 137 times several times due to differing build speeds...
Another question: Why are only some wonders fixed to civics and others aren't? For example the "Palace of the Soviets" is fixed to Marxist ruling class, but the Reichstag not to Legislature? I could do this for numerous wonders but it just seems strange to fix some and not others when there's such a wide variety of differing civic systems.
Edit: Also to add another feature request: Can we get era-specific customs buildings like the "Ancient Customs"? I'm currently in the Atomic Era at turn 4859 with my Immortal Zulu game and have recently conquered and bribed my way through 19 enemy cities and three opponent civs and the amount of unneccessary clicking is...really really bad. Why do I need to build a Reed Collector again in these cities even though It's the Atomic Era? Can't I just build the latest Customs Building and corresponding buildings up to one era back and be good? My fingers hurt from clicking 137 times several times due to differing build speeds...
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ranagrande
Chieftain
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2009
- Messages
- 72
Not playing Pangaea will extend the game a lot.
Mostly you just have to hold back though. Or play Mastery Victory.
