Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Talin2009]

UPDATED: 25 May 11:00 am

New Rev/DCM
- 35 New Housing Buildings
- Added Arcology Upgrade Chain
- Moved Irrigation Channels to Irrigation Tech
- Minor Tweaks
- New dll, faster speeds
- New religion Sikh, plus some work alot better and have been tweaked
- New experimental changes also included

25 *June* maybe ?

 

[Hydromancerx]

Yay!

Also my full changes added after C2C v12 are ...

- 35 New Housing Buildings
- Added Arcology Upgrade Chain
- Moved Irrigation Channels to Irrigation Tech
- Added Hippo and Narwhal Hunter's Camp.
- Tweaked Huts.
- Fixed Schema Files (As Requested).
- Population Limits Added to Buildings
- Added Brick Mason and Cheese Shop.
- Added 4 New "Goods".
- Tweaked existing buildings to support the new "Goods".
- Added 8 Fossil Bonus Resources.
- Strategyonly's NIF Fixes.
- Tweaked Movie Studio.
- Tweaked Monument.
- 15 new "Goods".
- Tweaked a whole bunch of buildings to support the new "Goods".
- Changed Icons for Administration Buildings.
- Changed the Icons for the Trading Post
- Tweaked the Market, Bazaar, Grocer, Trading Post and Crafts Hut.
- Fixed the Totem Pole (again).
- Converted "Pottery" resource into a "Good".
- Converted "Cement" resource into a "Good".
- Fixed Palisade Walls.
- Fixed Cave Painting.
- Tweaked the Totem Pole.
- Power Plants now provide power again.
- Reorganized Mods (ex. Cranes, Housing, Minerals, etc)
- Tweaked buildings to support the new Seal and Walrus resources. (Requires DH's update)
- Fixed Coca and Hemp "Fake Resources".
- Tweaked Poacher's Camp and other Hunting Camps.
- Most "Fake Goods" give no benefits now. (For balance testing)
- Tweaked Chinampa.
- Fixed Terracotta Army to require "Good (Clay)" instead of "Good (Glass)".
- Cave Painting changed to go obsolete at Literature tech.
- Minor Tweaks

 

[Koshling]

@Koshling, I forgot to remove the three three city limit when starting a new game. So I saved with max compatibility and removed the city limit from the civic. then I loaded the game and now I get "Can't build city because of" no reason given message.

BTW, today I tried adding the third type of sea terrain but it does not appear to be modular so it failed. Tomorrow I will try adding it to the main XML and see if I get some sea.

I have fixed your religion issue (can't found one newly added to the assets in a loaded pre-added religion save game) and will post the updated DLL shortly.

On the 3 city limit please post the save game for me.

On the terrain - it won't regnerate the map so since the original map didn't have that terrain it still won't. Nothing you can do about that - loading a save game is not gonna regen your map. If you need the new terrain for testing in an old game you'll have to use the worldbuilder to add it after you load into the new assets.

Edit - on the 3 city limit I'm a bit out of touch BTW, what civic is/was it on and did we drop it from C2C V13 or keep it from AND?

 

[civhelp121]

Hi, I haven't played ROM or any of its modmods in a while, but I decided to reinstall civ 4, reinstall ROM, and install this mod today. Needless to say this modmod looks like an incredible addition to ROM and AND, so I am excited to play it. I succesfully installed everything, I downloaded both ROM and this modmod to the desktop, unzipped both to the desktop. Finally I copied the files to the mod folder in Beyond the Sword, which was naturally in the Civ 4 file.

However, when I loaded this modmod and started a new game all I got was regular beyond the sword. I saw several new options that I hadn't, like no tech brokering and fractal map, but those might just be Beyond the Sword features I hadn't seen before. The only errors during the install was 6 errors when I was unzipping ROM, though if I understand this mod correctly it already contains AND and ROM and builds on top of them, so that shouldn't affect the mod. Did I not install it correctly?

Also as a note, I saved and unzipped the files to the desktop first because otherwise for some reason my computer would tell me nothing had been installed or unzipped. Though again given I copied the files to the correct folder I don't think this should be an issue.

Edit: Nvm, i found the issue, I forgot to take the file out of the archive

 

[strategyonly]

Edit - on the 3 city limit I'm a bit out of touch BTW, what civic is/was it on and did we drop it from C2C V13 or keep it from AND?

Yeah it was included from AND and new schema's also. The civic is Chiefdom: <iCityLimit>3</iCityLimit>

Thats the only civic it applies to.

V13 is the most uptodate version there is right now. It has a few NON-repeatable errors, but with your new saved system, its (i guess) by-passes the error, when you go to autosave?

 

[civhelp121]

ok new problem: I'll preface this with saying that I have 2 gigs of RAM as of now, but I ordered 4 gigs or RAM. As of now I'm pretty much using all of the RAM available with no other applications running to run the mod. I still occasionally had a memory allocation error when starting a new map, but thats not the main problem, I can just restart to fix that.

I've been checking out the fractal map to see if I would like the set up (I usually like multiple continents far enough apart that the civs on them don't get contact until u can cross oceans). This time when I restarted the game and press single player, I get the following runtime error:
The application requestedto runtime to terminate in an unusual way, contact the support team for more information.

I've tried restarting the modmod several times, as well as restarting the computer, but I always get that error when I press single player. I'm going to try to press some other option, but I don't think that would fix it.

 

[Navman]

Not really, it was intended for C2C for the ongoing modders pack for v13 really. If you need it to fix some issues you have encountered (crashes mostly) in v12 you can use it there, but make sure you also take the XML I included in the same RAR file. The DLL goes in
Caveman2Cosmos/Assets
and the XML file in
Caveman2Cosmos/Assets/Xml/Text

HOWEVER, plaese note that it is NOT save-game compatible with the base V12 DLL so if you do take it you won't be able to contine your current game. That problem won't recur going forward as this DLL introduces a new save format to enhance compatibility across other changes to address this issue once and for all.

Koshling and Dancing Hoskuld,
Thx for your replies.
An observation: at around turn 340 or so, I note that my building options seem
to be repeating themselves. In other words, after building a structure, the option
to build it again will reappear some turns later. is this due to city expansion?
Thx for your efforts on this mod.

 

[Koshling]

Koshling and Dancing Hoskuld,
Thx for your replies.
An observation: at around turn 340 or so, I note that my building options seem
to be repeating themselves. In other words, after building a structure, the option
to build it again will reappear some turns later. is this due to city expansion?
Thx for your efforts on this mod.

Sounds like a bug. Can you screenshot a city that has a building already built and is offering it again, and provide a (new format) save game of that state please.

 

[Koshling]

ok new problem: I'll preface this with saying that I have 2 gigs of RAM as of now, but I ordered 4 gigs or RAM. As of now I'm pretty much using all of the RAM available with no other applications running to run the mod. I still occasionally had a memory allocation error when starting a new map, but thats not the main problem, I can just restart to fix that.

I've been checking out the fractal map to see if I would like the set up (I usually like multiple continents far enough apart that the civs on them don't get contact until u can cross oceans). This time when I restarted the game and press single player, I get the following runtime error:
The application requestedto runtime to terminate in an unusual way, contact the support team for more information.

I've tried restarting the modmod several times, as well as restarting the computer, but I always get that error when I press single player. I'm going to try to press some other option, but I don't think that would fix it.

Probably IS memory I'm afraid. 2G likely won't cut it. Try the smallest map size and see if that helps. If map size DOES influence even more likely its a memory issue.

 

[Koshling]

@Koshling, while it does not cause errors, adding a new religion does not work properly with save games. I added Sikh then studied the tech, no one else had it, but the religion was not founded. Its icon did not appear in place of the tech icon either.

Attached is a DLL that fixes the can't found a new religion bug, which strikes when you define religions that were not in the save game's original assets (when that game was started). I don't know about the icon issue because I'm not sure enough where I would expect to see it (what context(s)). I have checked that even for the existing religions (eg - Andeanism, which is founded by Astronomy, which nobody has yet discovered in my test game) I don't see any changed icon for Astronomy in either the Civopedia or the science advisor tech tree, so either I am looking in the wrong contexts, or the bug is wider than just new religions or (likely) save games. If you can provide further details on where I should see the modified/replaced icon, and confirm it is, or is not, working for you on religions OTHER than the one you added then I'll take a closer look based on the extra info.

 

[civhelp121]

Probably IS memory I'm afraid. 2G likely won't cut it. Try the smallest map size and see if that helps. If map size DOES influence even more likely its a memory issue.

Well yeah that makes sense for the memory allocation failure, but I doubt the map size would cause the runtime error when I click on single player on the main screen since I haven't even selected the map size yet.

 

[Koshling]

Well yeah that makes sense for the memory allocation failure, but I doubt the map size would cause the runtime error when I click on single player on the main screen since I haven't even selected the map size yet.

Good point ;-)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well yeah that makes sense for the memory allocation failure, but I doubt the map size would cause the runtime error when I click on single player on the main screen since I haven't even selected the map size yet.

If you were playing a game then went to main menu and pressed single player it can crash because Civ IV has not cleared its memory or cache properly. Doesn't happen every time which makes it hard to track down.

...
On the terrain - it won't regnerate the map so since the original map didn't have that terrain it still won't. Nothing you can do about that - loading a save game is not gonna regen your map. If you need the new terrain for testing in an old game you'll have to use the worldbuilder to add it after you load into the new assets.

The terrain comment was a general comment to all not a bug - sorry, that is what happens when I post at 2am.

 

[civhelp121]

that is possible, though this happens, as I said, even when I restart my computer and then restart the mod. Maybe the memory isn't clearing even then since I don't have enough RAM

 

[Koshling]

First impression only, so it may be premature, but kelp seems to spread like wildfire. Pretty soon my entire coast (in a test game) was kelpifide!

 

[strategyonly]

Koshling and Dancing Hoskuld,
Thx for your replies.
An observation: at around turn 340 or so, I note that my building options seem
to be repeating themselves. In other words, after building a structure, the option
to build it again will reappear some turns later. is this due to city expansion?
Thx for your efforts on this mod.

I have seen this before also, it happend with AND and Afforess had a fix for it, maybe for some reason, something got unfixed in the dll, Koshling, can you get with Afforess on this issue thx.

btw I hope DH and Koshling are liking this special "down under" version of C2C

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

First impression only, so it may be premature, but kelp seems to spread like wildfire. Pretty soon my entire coast (in a test game) was kelpifide!

I have reduced the spread speed in my version and it is much better. I also think the speed reduction for ships may be a bit high.

Need to think about improvements now If I get sea terrain between coast and ocean thn we have a whole lot of stuff that should be modded further. Ships and bonuses but also cultural spread also.

I have seen this before also, it happend with AND and Afforess had a fix for it, maybe for some reason, something got unfixed in the dll, Koshling, can you get with Afforess on this issue thx.

btw I hope DH and Koshling are liking this special "down under" version of C2C

Some of the buildings being able to be built again was XML problems with the sports mod and sports wonders. A one would replace another but not the nes that the other replaced so they could be built again.

Download has just finished so I can start the install process and then see this "down underisation" thing you talk of.

 

[Hydromancerx]

btw I hope DH and Koshling are liking this special "down under" version of C2C

What's this about another version?

Some of the buildings being able to be built again was XML problems with the sports mod and sports wonders. A one would replace another but not the nes that the other replaced so they could be built again.

That was an Afforess thing when he made the Sports mod. While its true that I did help in the suggestions of the Sports mod and even provided button/icons for some of the buildings, it was made before I knew how to mod myself. Thus when he removed it from AND I inherited changes that Aforresss made for it. Someday I should go in and make it the way I originally envisioned it to be. Now that I have the skills to do so.

 

[Koshling]

@Koshling, I forgot to remove the three three city limit when starting a new game. So I saved with max compatibility and removed the city limit from the civic. then I loaded the game and now I get "Can't build city because of" no reason given message.

BTW, today I tried adding the third type of sea terrain but it does not appear to be modular so it failed. Tomorrow I will try adding it to the main XML and see if I get some sea.

@DH - I have got to the bottom of this issue, and frankly I think it's intractable (or at least HIGHLY risky in terms of the magnitude of change required, to the extent that it's probably not justified). I can offer you a workaround to fix your game, but first here is the explanation:

The game maintains aggregates of all modifiers that apply to the player, on the CvPlayer object (commerce mods, happyness mods, etc.) and these include the aggregate iCityLimit (can have components from multiple civics in principal, or even from other sources, though currently no XML tags exist to allow us to define those additional limits from things such as buildings, though the underlying capability is there).

When a game is saved the current values on the CvPlayer object are serialised, with no way to tell where the individual contributors of each serialised aggregate value come from. Thus when the game is loaded the aggregate (3 in this case) is restored, even though its 'source' has gone. It's not feasible for the load to 'repair' this without major changes (don't serialise ANY of this, but instead recalculate it from scratch each load). I am of the view that such a reworking WOULD actually be desirable, but there are huge numbers of these aggregate values (on players and cities), so it would be a big job with a high risk of bug introduction, so I don't think it is currently justified.

As to a workaround, here is a way out (it'll cost you a few turns of anarchy though):

1) Put the iCityLimit back temporarily
2) Load the game
3) Switch out of the chiefdom civic (if necessary change the despotism definition so you can temporarily)
4) Save the game
5) Edit the assets back to remove the iCityLimit again
6) Load the game and switch back to chiefdom

Essentially the key part is switching out of the civic while it has the iCityLimit of 3 on it (which will remove the contribution of 3 from the aggregate). Equally you could (I think - haven't actually TRIED this) define another civic as having a limit of -3 (!) and switching INTO that then saving (and then taking the -3 limit off before reloading).

@Afforess and modders generally - what do you guys think about the radical (potential) change of not serialising any of the aggregate values on players and cities, but instead recalculating on load?? This does have benefits:

• Prevents load-across-asset-change issues like DH's
• Would cause loads to 'fix' bugs that cause the aggregates to get out of step (I'm pretty sure we have some in this category)
• Would (slightly) reduce save sizes

The downside is that it would be a risky (and fairly complex) change...?

 

[Koshling]

Bug in the latest V13 assets. BuildingInfos includes:

		<BuildingClassInfo>
			<Type>BUILDINGCLASS_MANOR</Type>
			<Description>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_MANOR</Description>
			<iMaxGlobalInstances>-1</iMaxGlobalInstances>
			<iMaxTeamInstances>-1</iMaxTeamInstances>
			<iMaxPlayerInstances>-1</iMaxPlayerInstances>
			<iExtraPlayerInstances>0</iExtraPlayerInstances>
			<bNoLimit>0</bNoLimit>
			<bMonument>0</bMonument>
			<DefaultBuilding>BUILDING_MANOR</DefaultBuilding>
			<VictoryThresholds/>
		</BuildingClassInfo>

However BUILDING_MANOR is not defined (causes assertion failure in the DEBUG version, which is harmless but I'm guessing the INTENT was to have a manor building??)

Edit - another (totally unrelated) observation:

Castle Keep requires President? That seems rather weird (historically anyway!)