Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[king_gus_man]

I just started my first C2C game, I got screwed by overzealous exploration costing me all my units. But I won't be discouraged this mod is incredible, and I can't wait to see how a full game pans out.

I think bring fog of war back pre-map making is a great idea.

 

[charlesb96]

You also have to make sure the AI can handle it. I played with an option of no healing unless inside your own borders and the AI could not handle it. As soon as one of its units got damaged, it would fortify until healed, but since it could not heal outside the empire, the unit just sat there forever.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Making FoW reappear has been done several ways in different mods. jtanner28 used his version of it in KROME comes to mind 1st.

ls612 wrote:It if often a good idea to take a terrain promotion on your scouts to allow them to cross deserts without taking damage.

Sorry not sure where you are coming from ls612, but what does that have to do with my statement?

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

can the terrain feature of forcing movement to stop (i.e. the reef features) be removed at a tech or somewhere along the beacon improvement line?

No, I tried that also. I could change the feature reefs to reefs with beacon but then it would not upgrade. It would however allow for fishing fleets on the tile and for the feature to produce less damage and have lower cost of movement. There would need to be a way for pirates etc to destroy the beacon but leave the reef.

Actually it isn't getting out of control but it gets adjusted to reality (which is sometimes out of control and thus the lesser predictable frictions will generate more gameplay fun). If you don't like it, disable it like you do with rev or any other components you don't like (which for you would be nearly all, I guess )

Regarding the explorations of continents: yes, groups of humans explore a lot of terrain during thousand of years of nomadic life but as long as they don't have maps they tend to forget over generations.
So bringing reality into the dynamics we could think about having the fog of war fade itself and leave black tiles after some time (turns passed).

Example: lets say your scout explores a tile, moves on to other tiles somewhere else then the fog of war covers the tile and you still see the terrain of it for some turns (maybe 25 turns) before it's becoming totally black again.
This could only be a game option "extended fog of war" and would only be for human players as the AI would have problems with pathing I guess but it would add another layer of reality to the player as well as another layer of difficulty (which I always welcome). It would also train your memory as you would have to remember certain landmarks - no way to put notes on black tiles!

The twist would be that if you unlocked a res by a tech you can't just look on the map where it is and build a city there but you'd to re-explore for it a bit. By tech scriptures or other techs around that time the fog of war would stay longer before a tile would become totally black again (maybe 50 turns) and by map making or any other tech around renaissance the once explored tiles would stay with fog of war but wouldn't become black anymore.

Nomad trait would maybe have the bonus that the tiles would have like 35 turns of fog of war before becoming black again instead of 25 turns without the trait?

I really liked to see the increased fog of war in the game.
Do you modders think it's feasible?

I really hate all implementations of returning unknown plots. The main problems are that
1) it causes the automatic scouts never to find some nearby goody huts
2) you get single plot blobs of black inside huge areas that are fog of war
3) the distance from your borders for forgotten terrain is usually the same as the fog of war. In my view it should be at least two plots away. Stops you getting forgotten terrain just outside your borders.

You also have to make sure the AI can handle it. I played with an option of no healing unless inside your own borders and the AI could not handle it. As soon as one of its units got damaged, it would fortify until healed, but since it could not heal outside the empire, the unit just sat there forever.

Interesting idea but how would they safely get back to your borders?

I still have to create a proof of concept mod for restricting the range your units can travel from your borders. It is on my list.

 

[charlesb96]

No heal except inside your borders, means combat damage is never healed, till you get back, OR, fixed borders and claim the tile. Or even no heal at all unless in a friendly city, yours or neutral, or with a health unit only. Not even March will be effective without one.

When my Tribal Guardian is killed, I cannot build another. I should be able to, it is a national unit created when you found your first city.

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Modders:

Do you think its a better idea to have the now available Custom Civs in the CORE?? Then only place the NEW ones there for a month or so?

A bit late, but I'd prefer them to remain where they are. I like to be able to turn off certain civs depending on who I will be playing as (i.e. turning off Italy if I know I'll be playing Rome).

 

[Raven Destroyer]

Hey i remember the conversation about Auto building some of of the Many Many buildings and i was thinking the following
Let's split the list into two groups "Civilian" and "infrastructure"

Infrastructure being things like Roads, Bridges, Forges, Smelteries And other Manufacturing buildings important for the State and those needs to build by the Government Meaning the player

The Civilian buildings being Civilian run things for example the Fortune Teller things a Citizen chooses to do out of their own will and so Independently from the State

i was working the Civilian buildings out under the following a Civilian Infrastructure Building that is an Infrastructure building meaning it Has to be build by the state Subdived as following:

Tribal Infrastructure: unlocks at either Shelterbuilding or Cavedwelling (one of the first Shelter related techs)
Ancient Town Infrastucture: Unlocks at the first Tech of the Second era (sorry forgot the name)
Ancient City Infrastructure: Unlocks at Urban Planning
Ancient Metropolitan Infrastructure: (could also be later) idk where i would place it maybe i can think of a good Tech for it
Etc. for each Era/Development stage

for the Tribal Infrastructure just everything Civilian up to Ancient Town Infrastructure
for the Town Infrastructure the Civilian buildings you Could find in a Town up to the next Tier
for the City Infrastructure Everything you could find in a City up to the Next Tier
for the Metropolitan Infrastructure Every Civilian Building up to the Next tier

If you guys Decide to add Infrastructure Property you could weave it in
also for the Stats the buildings give i was thinking +1 for the Tribal, +2 Ancient town, +4 City, +%5 Metropolitan, in the Same order +3 , +5, +10, +%5 +1, +2, +3, +4 and for Crime -1, -3,-5, -10

Basically the Government gives Civilian a spot to build up their things reducing illegal building and because of that have more benefits from the Civilian buildings

also when compiling the list's of the two i would recommend erring on the side of the Infrastructure i like the amount of buildings and in no way i was imagining this idea to make City building a walk in the park (reducing the amount of buildings you need to build manually with like 50%)

 

[God-Emperor]

I just started my first C2C game, I got screwed by overzealous exploration costing me all my units. But I won't be discouraged this mod is incredible, and I can't wait to see how a full game pans out.

This is not unusual. Until you get strength 2 hunting/recon units you can assume that all units you send out will die. Every once in a while you will be pleasantly surprised by having one not die before it can be upgraded to something stronger. After you get the strength 2 units you can assume that only most of them will die...

 

[God-Emperor]

can the terrain feature of forcing movement to stop (i.e. the reef features) be removed at a tech or somewhere along the beacon improvement line?

I'll note that technically it isn't forcing a unit to stop. It just costs a lot of movement points to move through a reef feature. It has a movement cost of 5. Many of the later units, combined with the techs and promotions that give +1 movement, should be able to move across a reef without stopping if it is close enough to the start of their movement for the turn. There are also promotions which reduce the movement cost: the Maneuvering 1 promotion reduces the movement cost by 1 (but never to less than 1, of course). A ship with 6 moves (5 from base + techs, and 1 from Navigation 1 promotion which is a prereq for Maneuvering 1) and Maneuvering 1 (which reduces the cost for moving across a reef to 4) can cross a reef if it is one of the first two plots you move onto. Ships this fast are generally sailing ships, although with a bunch of experience to get more of the Navigation line promotions earlier ships can do so.

At this time, as far as I know, there is no tag to reduce the movement cost for a feature from researching a tech or building an improvement on it. Adding a tag to the ImprovementInfo to modify the movement cost should be relatively easy.

 

[Taxman66]

You'd think after thousands of years a nearby reef would be explored enough to find a safe passage through it (particularly if it blocking the single water tile leading to a city/port). The beacon/lighthouse improvements seem the best way. I realize their are issues as this was brought up before.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

You'd think after thousands of years a nearby reef would be explored enough to find a safe passage through it (particularly if it blocking the single water tile leading to a city/port). The beacon/lighthouse improvements seem the best way. I realize their are issues as this was brought up before.

while partially true even today Ships have a bad time Navigating Reefs also due to the fact it's shallow so you have a large risk either running aground or hitting the reef if you are distracted even 1 minute

 

[ls612]

Making FoW reappear has been done several ways in different mods. jtanner28 used his version of it in KROME comes to mind 1st.



Sorry not sure where you are coming from ls612, but what does that have to do with my statement?

JosEPh

It sounded like you were complaining about how much terrain damage there was. I was just saying that taking those promotions allows you to explore more of the continent.

 

[JosEPh_II]

No my complaint was getting over zealous about terrain damage as a whole. Then I got the cursory comments about me not liking anything new or complicated.

We have Terrain Damage as an option. As long as it stays that way then go ahead and go overboard on the complexity. Maybe a bit more thought and discussion, thinking thru the ramifications would be prudent though. Consider that.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

At this time, as far as I know, there is no tag to reduce the movement cost for a feature from researching a tech or building an improvement on it. Adding a tag to the ImprovementInfo to modify the movement cost should be relatively easy.

I've put it on my list as I agree this should be done and would be fairly easy to accomplish.

 

[charlesb96]

I have researched the tech for Rogues, and have upgraded my 2 thieves into rogues, but I cannot build new thieves. Is this as it should be, or should I report it as a bug?
V30

 

[Thunderbrd]

I believe Thieves obsolete when you can build rogues so yes... that would be by design.

 

[king_gus_man]

This is not unusual. Until you get strength 2 hunting/recon units you can assume that all units you send out will die. Every once in a while you will be pleasantly surprised by having one not die before it can be upgraded to something stronger. After you get the strength 2 units you can assume that only most of them will die...

Yeah. I'm about 100 turns into a new game, staying much more local. I ended up getting a second tribe off a hut and used it to find a second city instead of saving it. Bad idea, but I'm doing much better. I'm really impressed with the depth of this mod, and just how much I have to thing about so early the game rather than just the usual next turn spamming and exploring.

 

[charlesb96]

If you get lucky, you will get a stone spearman from your first one or two goody huts, that keeps your wanderer alive. The spearman kills the animals, the wanderer pops more huts.

 

[strategyonly]

If you get lucky, you will get a stone spearman from your first one or two goody huts, that keeps your wanderer alive. The spearman kills the animals, the wanderer pops more huts.

As you said "IF" you get lucky

 

[Maxima7]

What does scale city limits do?