Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Anq]

@Anq: Could you make this assert message about replacement ID errors on XML load a bit more helpful?
Would be nice to see the replacement ID string that is causing the error, when something is wrong on this front.
View attachment 532812

It's the first time I tried CvString::format, and I didn't test the output. I should convert the argument to const char* by doing szTypeReplace.c_str().

I'll change that message to "No replacement condition for this Replacement ID %s, make sure it's defined for the first replacement object loaded."

 

[Thunderbrd]

Not reall agree with those ideas, for example, back then, cave dwelling people don't really care about precious things: day to day life was way more important for them, so it was why Scavenging and Gathering techs actually reflect that point. And also, made the neanderthal culture require stone, are not an good idea either, as to be an Neanderthal have little to do with having an stone source near one of your city. As an Neandethal player, getting culture are an pretty hardious task, as they can't build other cultures than it (except if you conquer an city from someone), and making it require stone will block me to build even the most basic Neanderthal units.

I thought the Neanderthal player shouldn't be able to build the Neanderthal Embassy but that they start with the Neanderthal unit access naturally? How/when did this stop being the case?

The reasoning for Cave Dwelling, outside of the game purpose I gave, to be the reveal for stone and clay and such is that by living in close touch to rock dwellings, the differences in rock qualities start to become more readily apparent in day-to-day life and thus people take more notice of the more useful types of minerals wherever they are found because people are looking for signs that a potential liveable cave may be nearby.

The reasoning for stone as the prereq for Neanderthals IS somewhat more gamey. Something has to be required so as to make them much more rare to gain an embassy with and stone is a spawn point for them, which would mean that where there is stone, there are also Neanderthals on the map. I believe Elephants are also a spawn point but I can't recall off the top of my head.

 

[Toffer90]

I thought that they start with the Neanderthal unit access naturally? How/when did this stop being the case?.

They do, and it didn't stop being the case.

The buildable neanderthal culture should imo only require caves and ancient forest in city vicinity.

I thought the Neanderthal player shouldn't be able to build the Neanderthal Embassy

Actually, I think the neanderthal playable civ can build the neanderthal culture wonder too... We should use the <PrereqNotBuildingClasses> tag on the buildable one to bar it from players that have the neanderthal native culture in every city.

 

[Thunderbrd]

They do, and it didn't stop being the case.

The buildable neanderthal culture should imo only require caves and ancient forest in city vicinity.

Actually, I think the neanderthal playable civ can build the neanderthal culture wonder too... We should use the notbuildingprereq thingy on the buildable one to bar it from players that have the neanderthal native culture in every city.

Ancient forest is interesting.

Again, the problem with caves as a prereq is that there's already a major wonder dependency on caves at that stage so it would be doubling up the value of having caves to the point of making people want to restart the game if they don't start with caves in vicinity. Ancient forest, however, may be enough. But not all maps even have Ancient forests do they?

Agreed on the embassy but it sounds like he's saying he has to build it as the Neanderthal player to get access to neanderthal units so maybe something needs reviewing there?

 

[Toffer90]

but it sounds like he's saying he has to build it as the Neanderthal player to get access to neanderthal units so maybe something needs reviewing there?

No, it is working just fine. Wrub of the neanderthal empire can build neanderthal brute and stone throwers on turn 0.

Again, the problem with caves as a prereq is that there's already a major wonder dependency on caves at that stage so it would be doubling up the value of having caves to the point of making people want to restart the game if they don't start with caves in vicinity. Ancient forest, however, may be enough. But not all maps even have Ancient forests do they?

True... Perhaps Taiga terrain and ancient forest? Would make a polar start more desirable.

 

[Toffer90]

10993

• Fixed assert message about loading replacement classes.

Much better.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Not reall agree with those ideas, for example, back then, cave dwelling people don't really care about precious things: day to day life was way more important for them, so it was why Scavenging and Gathering techs actually reflect that point. And also, made the neanderthal culture require stone, are not an good idea either, as to be an Neanderthal have little to do with having an stone source near one of your city. As an Neandethal player, getting culture are an pretty hardious task, as they can't build other cultures than it (except if you conquer an city from someone), and making it require stone will block me to build even the most basic Neanderthal units.

The reason for wanting the metals especially copper, iron and gold revealed at gathering is because stone age peoples did make wonders out of them before they had any metal working techs. Those wonders are no longer wonders if you can work metal.

 

[raxo2222]

The reason for wanting the metals especially copper, iron and gold revealed at gathering is because stone age peoples did make wonders out of them before they had any metal working techs. Those wonders are no longer wonders if you can work metal.

So its like this: "Ugg, look at shiny, I woo this girl and spirits "

 

[Thunderbrd]

True... Perhaps Taiga terrain and ancient forest? Would make a polar start more desirable.

I like that but do all map scripts place ancient forests at this point?

 

[Dr. Elephant]

They do, and it didn't stop being the case.

The buildable neanderthal culture should imo only require caves and ancient forest in city vicinity.
Actually, I think the neanderthal playable civ can build the neanderthal culture wonder too... We should use the <PrereqNotBuildingClasses> tag on the buildable one to bar it from players that have the neanderthal native culture in every city.

Exactly (for the Neanderthal units), I have thinked that KaTiON_PT talked about both sources for the Neanderthal culture, which was not the case, sorry for the confusion. That's been said, what are the Neanderthal Ambassy building exactly?

 

[Dr. Elephant]

The reason for wanting the metals especially copper, iron and gold revealed at gathering is because stone age peoples did make wonders out of them before they had any metal working techs. Those wonders are no longer wonders if you can work metal.

That sound perfectly logical, so I am no more reticient to the idea.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

So its like this: "Ugg, look at shiny, I woo this girl and spirits "

What about the people who had iron knives with no knowledge of iron working. They had a meteor! Gold plaques from Indus Valley or gold figurines ancient Mesoamerica all hammered not smelted. There are a few more.

 

[raxo2222]

What about the people who had iron knives with no knowledge of iron working. They had a meteor! Gold plaques from Indus Valley or gold figurines ancient Mesoamerica all hammered not smelted. There are a few more.

I mean it was stage before that

 

[Thunderbrd]

I mean it was stage before that

Many precious metals were noted and where they could be derived and were even collected, despite not being further worked, by some indigenous tribal people. It was not completely valueless before it had application industrially and didn't go unnoticed.

 

[Dr. Elephant]

Many precious metals were noted and where they could be derived and were even collected, despite not being further worked, by some indigenous tribal people. It was not completely valueless before it had application industrially and didn't go unnoticed.

You have a way to represent it in the mod?

 

[Thunderbrd]

You have a way to represent it in the mod?

Yes, reveal the resource without enabling trade.

 

[Dr. Elephant]

Yes, reveal the resource without enabling trade.

I have understand this part

But I talk more in terms of gameplay, do it will give some bonus and/or enable specific buildings for an nearby city?

 

[raxo2222]

I have understand this part

But I talk more in terms of gameplay, do it will give some bonus and/or enable specific buildings for an nearby city?

Yeah, there is vicinity and raw vicinity tag.
Vicinity means building needs resource within city working radius.
Raw vicinity is like vicinity, but there is no need to improve resource, that is building would work with unimproved resource.

 

[JosEPh_II]

raxo2222 wrote:
11002
Removed all default valued tags in buildininfos.

Why? What purpose does this serve?

 

[raxo2222]

Why? What purpose does this serve?

Its cleanup.

So for example you search how much happiness each building give.
A gives 1, B gives 2, C, D, E gives 0.
Buildings C, D, E would clutter search results in notepad and nothing else.

Also some buildinginfos looked like mess with all NONE and 0 valued tags (some of them being like this <tag/>).