Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[KrumStrashni]

Yes, at x69, y3. Same timeframe as Advanced Rocketry. With this tech you get Paratroopers, Bombers, and A-Bombs (with their own respective prerequisites, of course.)

Hydro, are you proposing a separate tech for WW1 aircraft vs. one for WW2 aircraft? Aviation already (sort of) covers the WW2 planes with the Fighter and the IL2 (Early Bomber), while Flight covers the WW1 stuff. Late WW2 is covered by the current Aerodynamics (Bombers) and Jet Propulsion (P59).

Speaking of which...I don't know who came up with some of these unit names, but they look like carryovers from Unique Unit naming conventions in earlier mods. I think "P59" needs to be changed to something else, like "Early Jet". Similarly, the "IL2" (Early Bomber) should just be the Early Bomber or perhaps Tactical Bomber. (Heck, Stuka is even a better name than IL2, as it more clearly defined the role of tactical bombing several years before the IL2 did, good as the Sturmovik may have been. No offense to any Russian historians out there.)

Aside from what I see as the very obvious need to switch Aviation with Rocketry (so that Aviation comes first and Rocketry requires Aviation) I'm not sure that there's much that needs to change with the flying technologies.

Well, and this one: Naval Aviation. This comes too late to represent what it really is: the WW2 aircraft carrier. It should still require Aviation, but not Radar (Japan, for example, had very good naval aircraft and carriers without ever developing radar.) So if Aviation is available when Rocketry currently is - right after Flight but with Radio/Machine Tools - then Naval Aviation can come right after Aviation. (It might require playtesting, but the idea is to make it so that you get carriers and seaplanes very close to when you get battleships and cruisers.)

I totally second that. The sane can be said about the Tanks M26 and M60 ? They could just be named Heavy tanks or Tank Killer or Semi Propelled Artillery. Respectively may be have their moves reduced to 1 ---> having thus light tanks moving 3, tanks moving 2, and heavy tanks moving 1.

And as I said before, I believe there is a need for reworking the warlord units. They should not have a hidden nationality. The AI uses them extensively for no actual benefit constantly storming bunkers with machine gun nests and great commanders of +50% strenght on a hill with a forest. That happens every second turn on each side of my borders and there is no apparent benefit apart from slowing the game and wasting resources and time on the AI side. If you ask my honest opinion, I even think these warlord units should be scrapped.

Thirdly, is anyone still working on unit modeling? There are still quite some skins that need editing for more national flavour like for example horsemen and heavy swordsmen, heavy pikemen, arquiebusiers, the "il2" which looks kinda weird in German or US armament or A10 in Russian armament. I normally know a thing or two about drawing and history but don't know how to do it for Civ 4

 

[DRJ]

Hi Koshling! Found a repeatable CTD; worked around it by making UPT 15 -
but I thought you might be interested in the cause anyway, so here's the Max Comp Save...

 

[Koshling]

Hi Koshling! Found a repeatable CTD; worked around it by making UPT 15 -
but I thought you might be interested in the cause anyway, so here's the Max Comp Save...

I'll take a look. What's UPT 15? I presume this just crashes on end turn?

[EDIT] - it loads and plays the end turn fine for me :-( There are some minor issues with 'good (poison)' due to recent asset changes, but nothing that results in a CTD. Can you confirm the asset version you are running on and the exact action that causes the crash please.

 

[Czacki]

DLing the new version.

How's it going with the balance, guys? I remember the future era is a rather massive mess (especially when it comes to upgrades). Siege dies out on NLOS cannon, tesla infantry gets 100% collateral damage to 10 units (wth?), tanks don't upgrade to dreadnaught units (why?), sea units are exactly the same fusion unit only named "cruiser" "battleship" and stuff

Also, is 100% retreat still possible, or was the limit of 95% already put?

Religions: do they still grant crazy bonuses which pretty much turn the game into get-the-religions-fast-please? (esp. Buddhism and its crazy wonders)

Does the grocer still upgrade to supermarket losing all the gold and commerce it gave? (most anti-synergy upgrade ever).

Cheers

 

[Talin2009]

Marble quarry doesn't give Good (Marble), which is required to build Taj-Mahal. Marble national reserve doesn't give it either. (v13).

 

[DRJ]

I'll take a look. What's UPT 15? I presume this just crashes on end turn?

[EDIT] - it loads and plays the end turn fine for me :-( There are some minor issues with 'good (poison)' due to recent asset changes, but nothing that results in a CTD. Can you confirm the asset version you are running on and the exact action that causes the crash please.

Thx for taking a look! I set Unit Per Tile in Bug from "0" to "15", that way I managed to reach next turn. I guess it was either my bad comp that couldn't handle it (leaderhead not static, gotta change that) or some unit-loop-calculations. It CTD'ed every few turns before that one save and that time it was directly after loading (with cleared cache!), which I haven't had since some versions. Well, if setting UPT works around it...

 

[CiverDan]

DLing the new version.

How's it going with the balance, guys? I remember the future era is a rather massive mess (especially when it comes to upgrades). Siege dies out on NLOS cannon, tesla infantry gets 100% collateral damage to 10 units (wth?), tanks don't upgrade to dreadnaught units (why?), sea units are exactly the same fusion unit only named "cruiser" "battleship" and stuff

Also, is 100% retreat still possible, or was the limit of 95% already put?

Religions: do they still grant crazy bonuses which pretty much turn the game into get-the-religions-fast-please? (esp. Buddhism and its crazy wonders)

Does the grocer still upgrade to supermarket losing all the gold and commerce it gave? (most anti-synergy upgrade ever).

Cheers

The future eras, Galactic especially, is clearly a work in progress, many of the late techs still have no buildings/units/benefits to go with them. First part of the job was getting the techs in place which is mostly done at this point I believe. Much of the focus has been on things like the "Goods" system and the Prehistoric Era. By the way, the cost of "Analyze Strings" appears to be significantly less the most expansive actual techs currently. Should be the same as most expensive tech I would think?.

Re: Religions. One remaining issue with the religious wonders is they do not currently require the religion to be active to get the benefits. As a result you can combine the effects of wonders like the ones giving +1 hammer/priest with the "Church" civic to give you unlimited 4 hammer priests in your cities. I don't see other combos that are terribly abusive to be honest. Maybe just those wonders need to be tweaked or tweak the Church civic.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Hydro, are you proposing a separate tech for WW1 aircraft vs. one for WW2 aircraft? Aviation already (sort of) covers the WW2 planes with the Fighter and the IL2 (Early Bomber), while Flight covers the WW1 stuff. Late WW2 is covered by the current Aerodynamics (Bombers) and Jet Propulsion (P59).

Yes I think that there should be one between Flight and Aviation. Or even use Aviation for the WWI stuff and then a new one between Aviation and Aerodynamics.

At any rate you and KrumStrashni post it in the form I posted before so strategyonly can know exactly what to change.

You guy seems to know much more about this then I do so it sound like the changes you want will enhance the game. In short I am all for the moving around of techs, units and even name chances to make it better. But to do it you need to clearly state the exact changes you want (see link above).

Marble quarry doesn't give Good (Marble), which is required to build Taj-Mahal. Marble national reserve doesn't give it either. (v13).

Fixed in the SVN version. And v14 should be coming out soon. Thanks for reporting. Just hang tight.

. By the way, the cost of "Analyze Strings" appears to be significantly less the most expansive actual techs currently. Should be the same as most expensive tech I would think?.

Oops! Guess we forgot to up the cost for "Future Tech" which is what "Analyze Strings" actually is.

 

[Czacki]

The issue is with markets, grocers and similar buildings getting outdated and replaced by supermarket.

They combined give a LOT to +%, more than 50%, supermarket gives none so once you get this tech it's like a big kick in the nuts to your economy.

Supermarkets should be +50% OR it shouldn't be an upgrade.

 

[Hydromancerx]

The issue is with markets, grocers and similar buildings getting outdated and replaced by supermarket.

They combined give a LOT to +%, more than 50%, supermarket gives none so once you get this tech it's like a big kick in the nuts to your economy.

Supermarkets should be +50% OR it shouldn't be an upgrade.

Fixed in the SVN version. And v14 should be coming out soon. Thanks for reporting. Just hang tight. It now goes ...

Barter Post -> Bazaar -> Market -> Grocer -> Trading Post -> Supermarket -> Shopping District -> Mall -> Hypermarket

All with new stats.

 

[Koshling]

Why does seamstess Hut give food?

 

[JosEPh_II]

CiverDan wrote:Re: Religions. One remaining issue with the religious wonders is they do not currently require the religion to be active to get the benefits. As a result you can combine the effects of wonders like the ones giving +1 hammer/priest with the "Church" civic to give you unlimited 4 hammer priests in your cities. I don't see other combos that are terribly abusive to be honest. Maybe just those wonders need to be tweaked or tweak the Church civic.

Didn't realize this was possible as my priest specialist only have 1 hammer in the current game and 2 hammers in the previous. So "knowing" the right Civic/Wonder combo is the only way you'll get 4 hammer priests. And you have to be willing to sacrifice something else (Civic choices) to get them.

I too think that for the most part the majority of the Civics/Wonder religious combos are good. And I play with Multiple Religions "On". Previous game used DP, but not this game.

JosEPh

 

[strategyonly]

Yes I think that there should be one between Flight and Aviation. Or even use Aviation for the WWI stuff and then a new one between Aviation and Aerodynamics.

At any rate you and KrumStrashni post it in the form I posted before so strategyonly can know exactly what to change.

You guy seems to know much more about this then I do so it sound like the changes you want will enhance the game. In short I am all for the moving around of techs, units and even name chances to make it better. But to do it you need to clearly state the exact changes you want (see link above).


Oops! Guess we forgot to up the cost for "Future Tech" which is what "Analyze Strings" actually is.

No offense to anyone, ok, but i would first like everything that changes in the TechInfo area, run though Hydro first, because he is the Thinker behind the techs. He has worked too hard to see things change, him and i fought(not actually fought, but talked) for quite a while trying to get things just right, and over 95% of the time HE was correct

We have a really close nit Team right now and i want to keep it that way, thats how Kael ran FfH2 and he was my mentor on CFC (till about FfH2:2016?? came out), and look wheres he's at today, Head of the Program and Development of The expansion to Elemental, i believe thats the correct place. Alot of people from CFC are working for Firaxis and other companies also.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Why does seamstess Hut give food?

Um, can you take a screenshot. Mine says it gives +1 gold, +1 culture, +1 Happiness and +1% Gold with Dye. No food shown.

 

[geh4th]

Wonderful feedback you 2. I think what we may need is some sort of WWI aviation tech so flight can come before WWI but the fighters of WWI come at the new aviation tech. Not sure what to call such a tech. What do you guys think?

In addition could you guys write up the exact changes you want? Such as in the format of ...

Tech Name
Techs Req: (Names of the Techs Needed)
Location: X Y (Location on the Tech Tree)
Units: (Units you think it should be moved)
Other: (Other info you thinks important)

This should help SO change things.

I'm working on this but due to things going on in my life it might be a few days.

Hydromancerx, on this template are you wanting only suggested CHANGES or are you wanting full details for everything that has to do with the tech (all units, buildings, etc. and characteristics of those)?

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'm working on this but due to things going on in my life it might be a few days.

Hydromancerx, on this template are you wanting only suggested CHANGES or are you wanting full details for everything that has to do with the tech (all units, buildings, etc. and characteristics of those)?

You need to list both (X Y) locations, ALL required techs but only the units and/or building you think should be moved.

Note if you are changing stats for units you should write up what changes you want.

Once their all laid out I can look though them and seek out any problems. If there are I will point them out, we go over it and then eventually come to a final draft that we can give to strategyonly add.

 

[Flinx]

While we're currently at tech rearranging, i found it strange to get Algebra without researching Mountaineering.
It's a bit funny to be able to found cities on peaks but still lack the tech to enter a peak.
I guess a simple addition of Mountaineering as prereq to Algebra would solve the problem.

 

[Hydromancerx]

While we're currently at tech rearranging, i found it strange to get Algebra without researching Mountaineering.
It's a bit funny to be able to found cities on peaks but still lack the tech to enter a peak.
I guess a simple addition of Mountaineering as prereq to Algebra would solve the problem.

Or better yet have founding cities on peaks require both Algebra AND Mountaineering.

 

[DRJ]

Or better yet have founding cities on peaks require both Algebra AND Mountaineering.

I have an idea about the vodoo religion, couldn't the workers/settlers of a player having vodoo as state religion get the ability to enter mountains without even without knowing the tech Mountaineering/Algebra? As an example of history why this might be done, I thought of the Maroons, who fled into the mountains and established a "civ" there. It might give a backwards player a little ability to rest and prepare defenses in hard to reach terrain as more advanced players will have mountaineering soon, anyway. What you guys think?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have an idea about the vodoo religion, couldn't the workers/settlers of a player having vodoo as state religion get the ability to enter mountains without even without knowing the tech Mountaineering/Algebra? As an example of history why this might be done, I thought of the Maroons, who fled into the mountains and established a "civ" there. It might give a backwards player a little ability to rest and prepare defenses in hard to reach terrain as more advanced players will have mountaineering soon, anyway. What you guys think?

It is doable, fairly easy in fact. In Python, when a unit is built, check the owner does not have Algebra/Mountaineering and has Voodoo as their state religion. Is so give the unit the mountain promotion.