Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[rightfuture]

For those who haven't seen it. Here is an incredible video that shows how shipping changed the world from 1750-1850. The video is new today. I hope it is inspirational:
http://io9.com/5902375/incredible-video-shows-100-years-of-shipping-routes-1750+1850

 

[BlueGenie]

Is there a way to have an option that reduces your overall science output when you have a larger empire, perhaps coupled with Limited Cities option?
After all when you have a large empire not everyone is communicating perfectly so there could be more than several brilliant people working on the same thing, which would reduce the overall science rate for your empire.

Having it by Civics like Limited Cities might not work as well though; maybe this deficit is reduced by Era rather than Civics, to symbolize how during each Era people can communicate easier with each other.
There should of course be a limit to how much less one researches, like down to 50% perhaps, and the amount of cities you have before this starts happening would have to be thoroughly discussed, and changed by Civics, Era, and map size perhaps. Some buildings could reduce it too, Libraries and Universities for instance, places where knowledge is stored for easier reference.

I'm still not happy with Monarchy being limited in Cities with the Limited Cities option, in fact for me that one would be the first to have no limits. Otherwise the Civics current City Limit look like good base numbers to use where no penalty is incurred. A 10% science reduction for every city above that to a max of -50%, where the -10% per city is reduced each Era by 1%, and further reduced in each individual city by Archive Science Buildings (Library/University/some wonders) by 1 or 2% each, more for Wonders.

Just a thought to help some that want to run the option curb the runaway science output that comes from certain civics and an (over)expanded empire.

Cheers

 

[Hydromancerx]

@BlueGenie

I thought that's what the part of represented. With more commerce comes the exchange of ideas. Thus with low commerce and weaker trade then your would not get as much science output as well as all the other benefits of trade.

 

[BlueGenie]

@Hydro

You are right. I threw this idea out here because it s´doesn't seem like trade routes (which is a major factor in increasing larger empires commerce output exponentially) will get any change. I'd prefer that but I'd also like some option of slowing down research (if wanting to) for the larger empires so smaller empires (AI I suppose) can keep up somewhat better.

I've been meaning to come with a trade route overhaul suggestion, just haven't found the time to sit down and go through everything that pertains to trade routes and writing down what I think would be a different way that wouldn't overpower trade routes like it does now.

Cheers

 

[Mouthwash]

Does religion really "rise" and "fall" in this mod? Because right now Europe is united under Shamanism and I'd like to know if it will be that way for the rest of the game. (I do have religion decay enabled.)

 

[DRJ]

Big civs with other religions will send missionaries like crazy once they have the economic power to do so (play a level higher it doesn't hurt). They might even bribe smaller civs to convert to their religion.

 

[Mouthwash]

Big civs with other religions will send missionaries like crazy once they have the economic power to do so (play a level higher it doesn't hurt). They might even bribe smaller civs to convert to their religion.

Izzy is founding all the religions right now. Madrid has Shamanism, Shinto, and that Horseback Riding religion.

 

[Acularius]

Izzy is founding all the religions right now. Madrid has Shamanism, Shinto, and that Horseback Riding religion.

If you manage to get one of the other religions to spread, you could easily spread the others... if your lucky, the holy city will relocate to a new location that properly worships the faith.

 

[Mouthwash]

If you manage to get one of the other religions to spread, you could easily spread the others... if your lucky, the holy city will relocate to a new location that properly worships the faith.

I don't have Holy City Migration turned on, although in hindsight I probably should have... anyway how would I even get them to spread? Europe and Arabia are Shamans and the Africans are Druids. Say someone founded Christianity later on, would it have a chance? Also, does Shamanism obsolete at any point?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I don't have Holy City Migration turned on, although in hindsight I probably should have... anyway how would I even get them to spread? Europe and Arabia are Shamans and the Africans are Druids. Say someone founded Christianity later on, would it have a chance? Also, does Shamanism obsolete at any point?

Religion game play discussions belong on the religion mod.

Religions will spread by them selves if you have the "Multiple Religion Spread" option on. It was a prototype that never went far enough in my opinion.

Small religions may leave a city if you have "Religion Decay" option on. Again this was a prototype.

I introduced the idea of religions going obsolete a few versions ago and received many complaints, so no religions do not obsolete.

 

[XMrNiceguyX]

I've been playing this mod for a while now and have done my share of lurking here. Yet after once again grinding to a halt in the galactic era I noticed that the game starts to lose flavour there. Sure the trees are not finished there, but what I am missing is some sort of "gadget" to make the later ages more interesting. For example, loosely said, the development of the game can be somewhat condensed as: hunting / exploring -> expanding / early diplomacy / religion -> guilds / advanced governments and civics -> exploring oversea / more advance diplomacy -> air units / corporations -> spaceship -> ???. Once you finish the spaceship, the rest of the ages do not seem to give anything really interesting.

Having played since Civ 1, I know that in "Civ 2 Fantastic Worlds" a mod was added to add underwater cities. Since outer space cities seem to be hard (if not impossible) to implement, I was wondering if it would perhaps be possible to expand cities into deep sea. The buildings one could build in such underwater cities should of course be completely different, but no less interesting! Likewise, the sea component of the mod is slightly limited too. Stuff like "attrition" could be implemented for any wooden ship even into the renaissance age and more sea resources could be considered. To name a few examples: "Algae", "Corals", more types of sea fauna, etc. Underwater terrain and features could be a possibility too, such as underwater chasms or volcanoes.

I also noticed that compared to earlier ages, the world wonders in the later era's are few! Would love to see some more being added there *cough* wonderjunkie *cough*

While I don't have any concrete ideas myself, I just wanted to put this out there!

 

[strategyonly]

Attached at 2 screenie, with questions for everyone involved with C2C, i need some ideas pls, thx.

 

[Koshling]

Attached at 2 screenie, with questions for everyone involved with C2C, i need some ideas pls, thx.

Re first screenshot:

The short answer is 'not easy'. The long answer is all to do with how the AI assigns control over stacks (and since automation just uses the AI to automate things, also how automation see stacks). Each AI type has a stack leadership priority. This ensures that when the AI stacks things together the right (or at least a sensible!) unit gets stack-control, and the entire stack essentially has the AI of the lead unit. Generals have a leader priority of 11. Hunters and explorers 8. Attack units are in the teens. The idea of generals being lower than attack units is that generals are NOT stack leaders (they only have AI for joining other stacks and going and doing things in cities really), so when the AI stacks a general with attack units the attack units retain control (and the general does its stack support thing). Hunters and explorers are fairly low on the totem pole since, while you might want them to join in attack and defense stacks, you don't want them turning those stack into 'explorer stacks'. Because generals are higher than hunters however, when you stack them together the resulting stack still has the general AI, which really only knows how to go find other stacks to support (and hence is not active for automation). It might be possible to decrease the general's AI priority to below that of hunters (that would put it on a par with subdued animals) so that the hunters retained stack control. However, this is a risky thing to do - there are several AI types in between those values and we'd be changing control for any AI stacks in that middle ground, with unknown consequences.

I **could** make the priority differ for the human player (though odd things might happen if you auto-play in that case) so that human-player generals (only) get a lower AI priority. That would enable the automation you want, and shouldn't expose the AI (except during autoplay). Not a risk-free option though...

Re second screenshot:

You must have an unusual tech path. Personally I never get hunters before axemen, which are generally better military units for most purposes.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I've been playing this mod for a while now and have done my share of lurking here. Yet after once again grinding to a halt in the galactic era I noticed that the game starts to lose flavour there. Sure the trees are not finished there, but what I am missing is some sort of "gadget" to make the later ages more interesting. For example, loosely said, the development of the game can be somewhat condensed as: hunting / exploring -> expanding / early diplomacy / religion -> guilds / advanced governments and civics -> exploring oversea / more advance diplomacy -> air units / corporations -> spaceship -> ???. Once you finish the spaceship, the rest of the ages do not seem to give anything really interesting.

Having played since Civ 1, I know that in "Civ 2 Fantastic Worlds" a mod was added to add underwater cities. Since outer space cities seem to be hard (if not impossible) to implement, I was wondering if it would perhaps be possible to expand cities into deep sea. The buildings one could build in such underwater cities should of course be completely different, but no less interesting! Likewise, the sea component of the mod is slightly limited too. Stuff like "attrition" could be implemented for any wooden ship even into the renaissance age and more sea resources could be considered. To name a few examples: "Algae", "Corals", more types of sea fauna, etc. Underwater terrain and features could be a possibility too, such as underwater chasms or volcanoes.

I also noticed that compared to earlier ages, the world wonders in the later era's are few! Would love to see some more being added there *cough* wonderjunkie *cough*

While I don't have any concrete ideas myself, I just wanted to put this out there!

The main problem with sea stuff is that Civ IV is only concerned with the sea surface. Much coding is needed to change that. You can see the problem if you build a long sea tunnel. You enemies will "land" their army on the tunnel and attack you from it. This also means that sea routes for navies aren't workable for the same reason.

Currently we have three sea features, coral, reef and algae. Plus volcanoes may erupt at sea. Lack of graphics holds back here.

The team is looking at multi maps so that you will be able to explore the moon, Mars, the solar system and beyond.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Attached at 2 screenie, with questions for everyone involved with C2C, i need some ideas pls, thx.

Well its because Hunting got moved back. So Hunters come much earlier. I would say we either need to remove one of the early hunter units and leave a much weaker one in that part of the tree. Or possibly add a later hunting tech such as "Megafauna Hunting" and add it to late prehistoirc where the old hunting tech use to be. And then move the hunter there.

I am leaning to the latter choice.

 

[BlueGenie]

Scouts at Tracking, Trackers at Hunting, Hunters at Canine Domestication (where they can have that dog/wolf with them)?
It's not a lot later but might be enough to have Stone Axemen and other str3 units be around the same time or earlier.

Cheers

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well its because Hunting got moved back. So Hunters come much earlier. I would say we either need to remove one of the early hunter units and leave a much weaker one in that part of the tree. Or possibly add a later hunting tech such as "Megafauna Hunting" and add it to late prehistoirc where the old hunting tech use to be. And then move the hunter there.

I am leaning to the latter choice.

A current suggestion from archaeology is that hunting went from large animals to smaller animals. You can feed a whole tribe on a horse (technically megafauna) so why bother with things that can only feed a few. So "Megafauna Hunting" or "Big Game Hunting Tactics" actually comes before "Small Game Hunting Tactics".

 

[ls612]

I have just committed my new Epic Gamespeed setup. Currently no gameplay factors, except for inflationdelay, have been changed, the only thing is that now the Turn Length (in years or months) scaling will look more like the Snail and Eternity gamespeeds.

The new setup has 3032 turns and ends in the year 2100 AD, same as every other gamespeed. Feedback, both on the date progression and on what modifiers need adjustment, is most appreciated. Please post it on the C2C Balance Thread.

 

[Hydromancerx]

A current suggestion from archaeology is that hunting went from large animals to smaller animals. You can feed a whole tribe on a horse (technically megafauna) so why bother with things that can only feed a few. So "Megafauna Hunting" or "Big Game Hunting Tactics" actually comes before "Small Game Hunting Tactics".

Well perhaps just some sort of more advanced hunting tech then. I would think given time hunting techniques would improve. It would be also nice to link in othet techs like the Atl-Atl and Harpooning (marine mammal hunting) into the tree too since those involve more advanced tools.

Also hunting larger game might not be so easy if you do not have the right technology to take them down without being killed yourself.

 

[XMrNiceguyX]

The main problem with sea stuff is that Civ IV is only concerned with the sea surface. Much coding is needed to change that. You can see the problem if you build a long sea tunnel. You enemies will "land" their army on the tunnel and attack you from it. This also means that sea routes for navies aren't workable for the same reason.

Currently we have three sea features, coral, reef and algae. Plus volcanoes may erupt at sea. Lack of graphics holds back here.

The team is looking at multi maps so that you will be able to explore the moon, Mars, the solar system and beyond.

Now that you mention it, I did have occasions where Destroyers were dying to Warlords. That explains why! I'll be watching these developments closely then. I love multi-maps (believe such multimaps were in some CIV2 mod too?)