Caveman 2 Cosmos

[strategyonly]

Can I be a dick and request a "You get random traits" feature for "start with no traits" and "Developing leader"? Its way too easy to game prehistoric with nomad and expansionist.

too me that makes no sense, if u play with no traits at start, that is exactly what would happen in real life, u actually have nothing, then work ur way up to things u like. Now if ur asking for a NEW way to work with traits, then that is a different story, IMPO. . .

 

[Shoobs]

too me that makes no sense, if u play with no traits at start, that is exactly what would happen in real life, u actually have nothing, then work ur way up to things u like. Now if ur asking for a NEW way to work with traits, then that is a different story, IMPO. . .

So for this to happen..
A) No traits
B) Developing leaders
C) You gain enough culture to get a new trait.
Instead of being able to SELECT the trait, you get one at random.

 

[JosEPh_II]

So for this to happen..
A) No traits
B) Developing leaders
C) You gain enough culture to get a new trait.
Instead of being able to SELECT the trait, you get one at random.

You need to talk to T-brd or Dancing Hoskuld as they are still developing Developing Leaders afaik. Only they can answer your question about getting Random Traits as your leader develops or if it's even possible.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

Can I be a dick and request a "You get random traits" feature for "start with no traits" and "Developing leader"? Its way too easy to game prehistoric with nomad and expansionist.

I kinda like this idea to randomize selections. Not because it's too easy to game but because it's just a cool alternative way to go about it. You may feel it's too easy to game things with those selections but in an MP, I'd be happy to take on your approach with my own.

We're not so far away from having a lot more traits and a total rebalance of existing ones, at least by a trait set I've been working on which would start as an optional set and we'll see what y'all think about it - hoping it may become stock. But it's got a LOT more traits and an option to have them assigned at random or rather as the AI would pick them seems very appropriate to accompany that.

So it won't be overnight but I'll see what I can whip up.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The current traits are a bit of a problem. I would really like to have "levels" and prerequisites for some of the higher levels. I would also like like some to stop access to others something like you can't have Capitalism III if you have Socialism I, if those were traits.

Those prerequisites would include things like

• access to religions or numbers of religions or "level" of religions
• wonders
• other traits
• and so on

I am trying to find some better names for "level" of a religion than those in the Total War mod, which are

• not existent, world piety level (wpl)=0,
• basic, wpl=6, can build temples and lesser shrines but not much else
• awakened, wpl=10, can build the major Shrines and wonders, get free missionaries on occasion
• mature, wpl=13, can build Monasteries and Missionaries, don't get free missionaries
• ?????, wpl=20, can build Cathedral level buildings

 

[Toffer90]

Last level:
What about "Sublime"?

or:
"Exalted"
"Elevated"
"Canon"
"Consecrated"
"Sacred"
"Hallow"

Instead of "level", what about "phase" or "stage"

 

[Thunderbrd]

The current traits are a bit of a problem. I would really like to have "levels" and prerequisites for some of the higher levels. I would also like like some to stop access to others something like you can't have Capitalism III if you have Socialism I, if those were traits.

My current plan includes 3 tiers to each trait if you're using DL. There are going to be tech prerequisites for higher tiered traits and you must have the trait before it in the line and some traits will bar you from using others. Negative traits have counterpart positive ones and vice versa and you cannot have a negative trait that's a direct mirror of a positive one you have and vice versa.

Those prerequisites would include things like

• access to religions or numbers of religions or "level" of religions
• wonders
• other traits
• and so on

Some additional prereqs can be added but I've designed a basic set of traits for now. I'm totally open to working with more exotic ones with strange prereqs, even combinations of other trait selection prerequisites and wonders and so on. But with this set there are already going to be a LOT of new ones.

I am trying to find some better names for "level" of a religion than those in the Total War mod, which are

• not existent, world piety level (wpl)=0,
• basic, wpl=6, can build temples and lesser shrines but not much else
• awakened, wpl=10, can build the major Shrines and wonders, get free missionaries on occasion
• mature, wpl=13, can build Monasteries and Missionaries, don't get free missionaries
• ?????, wpl=20, can build Cathedral level buildings

Sounds like you're looking to weave traits into religions?

Other than using the term level, you could use the term Insight Rating or Degree of Enlightenment.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Last level:
What about "Sublime"?

or:
"Exalted"
"Elevated"
"Canon"
"Consecrated"
"Sacred"
"Hallow"

Instead of "level", what about "phase" or "stage"

Stage is good. There need to be those ones for religions that are fading also but not outlined here.

Sounds like you're looking to weave traits into religions?

Other than using the term level, you could use the term Insight Rating or Degree of Enlightenment.

More basic eg you can't go for religious traits if you don't have a state religion for example. Then there is Sevo's Faces of God wonders that will be trait and religious world piety level (wpl) related.

The Total War mod has a set of "Religious Components" that you collect, trade and use to increase the wpl of any religion. Each religion can use differing components to differing degrees. They are sort of like a cross between resources and ideas.

 

[strategyonly]

The Total War mod has a set of "Religious Components" that you collect, trade and use to increase the wpl of any religion. Each religion can use differing components to differing degrees. They are sort of like a cross between resources and ideas.

Have u talked to the "Total War" guru, maybe he can code some stuff in C2C with U...

 

[Shoobs]

I kinda like this idea to randomize selections. Not because it's too easy to game but because it's just a cool alternative way to go about it. You may feel it's too easy to game things with those selections but in an MP, I'd be happy to take on your approach with my own.

We're not so far away from having a lot more traits and a total rebalance of existing ones, at least by a trait set I've been working on which would start as an optional set and we'll see what y'all think about it - hoping it may become stock. But it's got a LOT more traits and an option to have them assigned at random or rather as the AI would pick them seems very appropriate to accompany that.

So it won't be overnight but I'll see what I can whip up.

With no downsides to traits.... yeah. This is a particularly powerful and potent early game combo that leads to fast snowballing. But I'm not sure I am willing to join the two games currentlyin session due to unsure how I'd be in 3 months in terms of playing.

That aside. What do you guys think about some of the earlier religions becoming AVAILABLE upon research, even if they don't get to found the religion?

 

[Thunderbrd]

What do you guys think about some of the earlier religions becoming AVAILABLE upon research, even if they don't get to found the religion?

I... um... don't understand the question.

 

[strategyonly]

I... um... don't understand the question.

yeah, either do i, pls more / / /

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I am intending to introduce, just after Oral Tradition, a bunch of Animist Religions so that everyone gets to found a religion at that point. I may just program it so that when you research that tech you get a special animist religion. The current Animist religion will go as will Druidism. Druidism will move to a post Industrial tech to better mesh with its current meaning while the Druids will move to a Celtic Druidism will be available if you build the Celtic Culture or similar and have Polytheism.

However these special Animist religions will be different to the normal religions because they wont have a Holy City. I may introduce a Holy Site for them on the landscape. They will otherwise act like a State Religion and will automatically spread to all your cities. They will disappear when you found more structured religions.

 

[strategyonly]

I am intending to introduce, just after Oral Tradition, a bunch of Animist Religions so that everyone gets to found a religion at that point. I may just program it so that when you research that tech you get a special animist religion. The current Animist religion will go as will Druidism. Druidism will move to a post Industrial tech to better mesh with its current meaning while the Druids will move to a Celtic Druidism will be available if you build the Celtic Culture or similar and have Polytheism.

However these special Animist religions will be different to the normal religions because they wont have a Holy City. I may introduce a Holy Site for them on the landscape. They will otherwise act like a State Religion and will automatically spread to all your cities. They will disappear when you found more structured religions.

sounds very interesting, cause i can never get to a religion, because by the time i get there someone else has already found one, i have to wait all the way up to Christianity . .

 

[tmv]

a negative trait that's a direct mirror of a positive one

Will the negative traits also have "levels", so instead of spreading your drawbacks, you could take an intense disadvantage in a certain area to remain competitive in the other ones?

 

[Shoobs]

I am intending to introduce, just after Oral Tradition, a bunch of Animist Religions so that everyone gets to found a religion at that point. I may just program it so that when you research that tech you get a special animist religion. The current Animist religion will go as will Druidism. Druidism will move to a post Industrial tech to better mesh with its current meaning while the Druids will move to a Celtic Druidism will be available if you build the Celtic Culture or similar and have Polytheism.

However these special Animist religions will be different to the normal religions because they wont have a Holy City. I may introduce a Holy Site for them on the landscape. They will otherwise act like a State Religion and will automatically spread to all your cities. They will disappear when you found more structured religions.

Not quite what I was expecting but cool. The idea was that everyone gets a missionary upon researching Druidism/Shamanism, basically, and have no central "holy" buildings that benefit from the other empire cities that may have it, as well as disenfranchising the two religions from being able to trigger a religious victory.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Will the negative traits also have "levels", so instead of spreading your drawbacks, you could take an intense disadvantage in a certain area to remain competitive in the other ones?

Yes. Exactly.

 

[Shoobs]

I'm not sure but SOMETHING seems off about the surround the enemy modifier here...

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm not sure but SOMETHING seems off about the surround the enemy modifier here...

It's listed as a negative because that's how it's being applied to the defender. It's in green because it's a benefit to the attacker. It's 135 because cats have enhanced surrounding capabilties. Lunge, Unnerve and Enclose all work in tangent. Lunge makes the attacker benefit more from existing surround benefits. Unnerve makes a unit seem more powerful when evaluating its impact on establishing a surround benefit for the attacker. And Enclose strengthens the maximum surround benefit that can be given from the best surrounding unit on that tile.

Lunge is for the unit that attacks. Unnerve and Enclose are for the supporting surrounding units. Unnerve makes the surround more effective, while Enclose enhances the maximum potential of effectiveness. Unnerve freaks out the defender more while Enclose makes it more clear that there is absolutely no escape in that direction.

If I recall, Felines are particularly good with Lunge. Canines are quite good with Unnerve (barking and howling and such) and can be fair with Enclose as well.

Normally the maximum benefit from S&D is 60%. Much higher if these 3 abilities are developed and used skillfully.

 

[Shoobs]

It's listed as a negative because that's how it's being applied to the defender. It's in green because it's a benefit to the attacker. It's 135 because cats have enhanced surrounding capabilties. Lunge, Unnerve and Enclose all work in tangent. Lunge makes the attacker benefit more from existing surround benefits. Unnerve makes a unit seem more powerful when evaluating its impact on establishing a surround benefit for the attacker. And Enclose strengthens the maximum surround benefit that can be given from the best surrounding unit on that tile.

Lunge is for the unit that attacks. Unnerve and Enclose are for the supporting surrounding units. Unnerve makes the surround more effective, while Enclose enhances the maximum potential of effectiveness. Unnerve freaks out the defender more while Enclose makes it more clear that there is absolutely no escape in that direction.

If I recall, Felines are particularly good with Lunge. Canines are quite good with Unnerve (barking and howling and such) and can be fair with Enclose as well.

Normally the maximum benefit from S&D is 60%. Much higher if these 3 abilities are developed and used skillfully.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I garnered all of that before hand. It is part of the reason I have so many cats ( and dogs, there's atleast one square that has dogs in that picture! ).. Its just..that % is over 100, and the cats are level 3 at most. So this is a bit op in my opinion... I could seriously take over everything with these things.
Edit: Also note I put it in the main thread, not one of the "OMG THERE"S SOMETHING WRONG PLZ FIX" thread.
Edit2: Should the AI be rushing with slavery enabled to the point where their cities are moving under 6 size? I hardly ever enable slavery myself, for I do not see as much benefit as Some people do, but .. the Israelis, who were keeping pace atleast semi well in my current game now have city sizes of insanely small proportions now. And its not due to criminal scum, I checked.