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Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I've always had the sense, not so much from having evaluated it, but just the sense, that the Kardashev system seemed a little crude and based on earlier assumptions. Perhaps in part one of those assumptions is that FTL is impossible, in which case, perhaps such a society would indeed be limited to how much they could collect from their home solar system and the wide build wouldn't even be possible until possibly much later.
    The caching around Great Commanders is very important to the speed of processing but can lead to small inconsistencies such as these.
     
  2. GreatLordofPie

    GreatLordofPie Warlord

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    FTL is kind of a cheap out, since if we're using known physics as the benchmark, you'd need, to quote the dear Emperor, "unlimited power" (or at least a huge amount of it) to be able to fold space. So I disagree with the assessment that a paradox exists as you described it (if SW Legends is to be believed, a single star destroyer produces something in the ballpark of K1 civ anyways). I do agree that the scale is flawed and that other factors should be accounted for, but for the purposes of era naming, it's good enough shorthand for what the era is, and gives a good enough idea for a layperson about what that era is (or at least better than "Galactic" as you pointed out).
     
  3. Joij21

    Joij21 Prince

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    That's not taking into effect increased energy efficiency of such designs.


    While a star destroyer may produce a lot of energy, the fuel which created that energy was extracted at less than 100% efficiency from a single planet. In order to be K1 you must have this 100% energy efficiency which clearly the Empire does not. Instead it's fuel is extracted from 10% of a planet's surface from multiple sources to get the final fuel amount.
     
  4. Faustmouse

    Faustmouse Deity

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    Agreed. Also, at some point, all the science elite was sure that we can't go faster than the speed of wind. Or later, faster than the speed of sound. Or that it would be impossible to send humans to the moon. Or that we know all of physics, and the only thing left is more accurate measurements. Assuming that we know for sure that FTL is impossible, is just woefully arrogant IMO.
     
  5. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    FTL is possible according to general relativity (wormholes). Getting negative mass or not getting fried by radiation are secondary concerns.
    This is C2C canon too - at first there are gravity manipulation techs.
    Then again there are time travelling techs, if you look at their descriptions you can see that one tech was given by your future civilization.
    Maybe quantum general relativity will be more lenient - theory that would fix compatibility issues between general relativity and quantum mechanics.
     
  6. tmv

    tmv Emperor

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    There is a difference between gut feelings and assumptions that you base your theories on. For none of these cases did people ever derive testable conclusions from them, nor did they fail to disprove them despite testing them over and over again for decades.

    Energy efficiency is limited. As long as you cannot go beyond the first / second law of thermodynamics, you cannot push efficiency beyond a fixed point.
     
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  7. raxo2222

    raxo2222 Time Traveller

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    Some people really would like to play God :p
    So they don't believe, if something can't be done, even if hard mathematics says otherwise.
    It wouldn't matter that much once VR gets developed to point, that you can live in computer simulation, that feels like real life.

    We didn't change much since last 200 000 years or so.
    Fancy mathematics and scientific thinking has maybe 500 years.
    New and very confusing physics has little over 100 years.
    Essentially confused apes are carried by scientists, and this stuff will get worse until transhumanism becomes widespread.
    Education can go only so far - some people really distrust government, scientists and other authority.
     
  8. Joij21

    Joij21 Prince

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    What do you mean? Transhumanism is about enhancing and eventually replacing humans through cybernetic implants and genetic modification until something quite different from a human appears as the end result. None of that implies eliminating distrust for authority or improving education, as such constructs would likely be completely different under a non-human entity. There is nothing as to indicate such an entity would feel any more trustful of such systems in it's own time. You also make the point that currently scientists are keeping the rest of the species afloat. If we assume this assumption is true, than the current system already works perfectly fine, thus making transhumanism unnecessary.

    So are you implying people such as Faustmouse and I are part of this ignorant group of people trying to play God? That our ideas are simply dragging the rest of humanity backward, thus requiring a select few intellectuals comprising of scientists to keep us afloat? If so then its quite hilarious you would criticize us when you also seem to agree with us on FTL being possible with this post.
    I
    I
    v
     
  9. altug

    altug Chieftain

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    Is there a reason why story teller do not show up in next build window, and can only be selected within city screen? Also it can be built in 1 tun in marathon, it's intended right?
     
  10. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    That window has been cut down to only showing something like the 10 most likely things the game thinks you'd want to build/train for the sake of expediency - the window was deemed too slow to open without being streamlined this way. Storytellers ARE a pretty cheap build so that's probably fairly accurate. You'll probably get to the point where you're building more than one in a round. Make sure you understand that you can use the city window queue and hold shift to add more selections to the queue - if you aren't aware you can add multiple things to work on you're going to end up wasting a LOT of production.

    You can also use ctrl - select to add something to the front of the queue and alt - select to add a unit train repeating.
     
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  11. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Warlord

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    I thought overflow production would take care of that? Even when you have too much overflow so it can't keep overflowing anymore, the production that could not be carried over is converted to gold (which the game lets me know through notification). For this reason I have not particular cared about adding queued production to avoid wasting production, but when you are mentioning it here, I get curious about how the production would be wasted? (there's probably something I have missed here)
     
  12. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    I feel its wasted when it's converted to gold, for production is of FAR greater value strategically. It's all about how much you can get accomplished in the a given amount of turns. Often, production is the core of that measure.
     
  13. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

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    I was under the impression that the Kardashev scale referred to the total gross energy harnessed by a civilization, rather than perfectly efficient (if such a thing is even physically possible) extraction from a particular source. So something like the galactic civilization in Star Wars (be it the Empire, the Old Republic, or any of the various smaller factions like the Rebels, Resistance, Hutts, Corporate Sector Authority, Chiss, and so forth) would clearly be either very high Type II or low Type III. Keep in mind that each point on the type scale (at least Kardashev's original 3; the energy output of the observable universe or the multiverse is considerably harder to quantify in any meaningful or accurate way) is that of 10 billion times more energy than the previous point. Most fictional spacefaring civilizations are wide rather than tall; I can think of only a handful of exceptions (mostly ones that explore the concept of megastructures, like Dyson spheres or Ringworlds), and even a "tall" civilization would need some degree of interstellar resource extraction to build megastructures (assuming they don't have some way of generating matter from other dimensions or ex-nihilo).
     
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  14. Joij21

    Joij21 Prince

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    It's not so much gross total energy harvested but rather energy harvested in the form of solar energy. Yeah so my earlier term of efficiency is incorrect. What I meant by efficiency is that it refers to how much of a percent of solar energy can be harvested from the surface of a planet, the surface of a star, and the surfaces of all stars in a galaxy. Those three are the exact variables measured to determine one's K ranking under the Kardashev Scale. So no fusion, no nuclear, no hydrocarbon, just solar as the only energy variable. Again it is for this precise reason why the Kardashev Scale is very crude.
     
  15. altug

    altug Chieftain

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    Any idea why the stone axeman's %50 melee bonus doesn't calculated against obsidian axeman?
    Also as I see, the tile defense is not being added for the opponent score, curious about it as well.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  16. Yudishtira

    Yudishtira Spiritual/Creative

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    All those things are shown there. When both sides have bonuses, the smaller one is subtracted from the larger. You have 75 he has 135, it is calculated as 60 (4.14) to him and 0 to you.
     
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  17. altug

    altug Chieftain

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    Bonefire and Imu are both replacing Fire Pit, but you can have them both. Is this intended?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  18. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    There shouldn't be any problem with that. Either one obsoletes the first once built but you can have both. Bonefire is probably a little more rare to qualify for I would imagine.
     
  19. MadeleineW

    MadeleineW Chieftain

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    So I last played this from a version I downloaded in 2016, and it was great fun. The one I got last week is so much nicer though, it's really user friendly compared to the old one. Thank to everyone who did the improvements, it was already a fantastic game and now it's even better. Also a lot of changes to the game which are neither better nor worse (for me) like different prerequisites and things coming in a different order are still welcome because it makes the game sufficiently different to add interest. Also, my rhinoceroses no longer look like heavy cavalry.
     
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  20. Jayman1000

    Jayman1000 Warlord

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    I can see that, gold can't be used directly for a long time in the beginning of the game.
     

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