Caveman 2 Cosmos

[cobbaut]

Found a typo, I think, in the name Bolivar.
(Yesterday's SVN)

 

[Toffer90]

Found a typo, I think, in the name Bolivar.
(Yesterday's SVN)

View attachment 584512

K, I've fixed it on my end.

 

[cobbaut]

Hello,

In my new game (SVN from couple days ago) I was able to snatch two workers from the Barbarians. I thought I hit the jackpot, since I was only able to build gatherers (I was about six techs away from Sedentary Lifestyle). But these captured workers can only make trails. I tested them on some Indigo, and on pig, but they cannot built anything for these resources. Is this meant to happen ?

I also noticed this "Wonder of Nature" is not a Wonder in the city screen. Is this intentional ?

Thanks for making this mod, it is a lot of fun!

 

[Somebody613]

Hello,

In my new game (SVN from couple days ago) I was able to snatch two workers from the Barbarians. I thought I hit the jackpot, since I was only able to build gatherers (I was about six techs away from Sedentary Lifestyle). But these captured workers can only make trails. I tested them on some Indigo, and on pig, but they cannot built anything for these resources. Is this meant to happen ?

View attachment 585377



I also noticed this "Wonder of Nature" is not a Wonder in the city screen. Is this intentional ?

View attachment 585376

Thanks for making this mod, it is a lot of fun!

1. I guess you are playing with Hidden Worker Tasks, and this task involves Cutting the Forest, which I assume you CAN'T yet.
If you made the task visible, it'd say that you need more Techs.
Or so I guess.
Edit:
I see you can Cut already.
Dunno then, lol.

2. Aren't Nature Wonders NOT Wonders in the first place?
Ah, they definitely are NOT - since they are PLACED together with normal buildings in the city builder screen.
Ya know, in the MIDDLE screen, while all real Wonders and Cultures are all on the RIGHT one.

 

[cobbaut]

Ah, they definitely are NOT - since they are PLACED together with normal buildings in the city builder screen.

Indeed, but is is called "Wonder of ...", so I wondered why this Wonder was not in the Wonders tab ;-)

 

[Somebody613]

Indeed, but is is called "Wonder of ...", so I wondered why this Wonder was not in the Wonders tab ;-)

No idea, if we are honest.
Probably because you CAN build more than just ONE of them per civilization - each nearby vicinity city CAN do it, there are no limits.
I dunno whether this is a GOOD or a BAD decision, but it works that way NOW.

As of the Worker question - I'm kinda confused, lol.

 

[tmv]

Indeed, but is is called "Wonder of ...", so I wondered why this Wonder was not in the Wonders tab ;-)

If you are not playing with "Unlimited Wonders", this is not counted for the city limit.

 

[Blazenclaw]

In my new game (SVN from couple days ago) I was able to snatch two workers from the Barbarians. I thought I hit the jackpot, since I was only able to build gatherers (I was about six techs away from Sedentary Lifestyle). But these captured workers can only make trails. I tested them on some Indigo, and on pig, but they cannot built anything for these resources. Is this meant to happen ?

Moderately intentional. If you're in Renaissance (era X) and happen to capture a Modern era worker (worker from era X+), should you be able to use it to construct hydroelectric dams (improvement from era X+)? If the answer is yes, then what happens when you enter the Modern era (X+) but have yet to discover the specific tech to make that improvement; does the worker just forget how? That's kinda the structure of what's happening here with Sedentary Lifestyle, but applied to 'how to make an improvement without consuming the unit' type of deal.

I wasn't sure whether or not to make an exception for Sedentary Lifestyle, but it was easier not to when I redid the worker builds, so that's the current structure. Interesting that it can make palisade and tower though, that seems to be an oversight.

 

[Somebody613]

Moderately intentional. If you're in Renaissance (era X) and happen to capture a Modern era worker (worker from era X+), should you be able to use it to construct hydroelectric dams (improvement from era X+)? If the answer is yes, then what happens when you enter the Modern era (X+) but have yet to discover the specific tech to make that improvement; does the worker just forget how? That's kinda the structure of what's happening here with Sedentary Lifestyle, but applied to 'how to make an improvement without consuming the unit' type of deal.

I wasn't sure whether or not to make an exception for Sedentary Lifestyle, but it was easier not to when I redid the worker builds, so that's the current structure. Interesting that it can make palisade and tower though, that seems to be an oversight.

I always thought that Worker tasks were directly tied to your tech progress alone.

And the old problem of improvements "providing resource_x", but actually NOT.
Happens a lot with animal resources in the very beginning.
You can build something on top of a Cow, and it tells you in the task button's description that it will "provide Cow".
But then you build the improvement - and yet you still have no Cow before you research the appropriate tech.
I've complained about it in the past, but nothing was fixed (because I keep seeing it happen).
My point being that you shouldn't be expecting to receive a resource when you won't, or at least it should involve an unambiguous "needs tech_x" description everywhere.
This is ANNOYING.

 

[raxo2222]

And the old problem of improvements "providing resource_x", but actually NOT.

Its not problem, you just don't know difference between Tech Reveal and Tech Enable.

That's because Tech Enable only reveals resource.
Buildings, that require resource either need to wait, or have raw vicinity requirement, which just requires resource to be nearby.

Tech Reveal is one enabling full use of resource - it will appear in city after improving it and connecting it.
Tech reveal and tech enable isn't same for most plants and animals.
This is most common in Prehistoric era.

Here is list of resources with different tech reveal/enable.

Spoiler :

I guess tooltip could say tech reveal/enable and display it in green, if you have those techs.

 

[Toffer90]

A worker unit isn't sovereign, it doesn't make an improvement alone, but depend on resources, knowhow, and manpower continually provided by the nation it belongs to.
If a modern worker team is kidnapped by a prehistoric tribe, taken to the jungle far away from any civilization, and forced to work for them, then they won't take it upon themselves the work of building a hydroelectric dam for said tribe without having the equipment and resources needed to do the job. Likewise a servitude ancient era worker won't be able to convince the prehistoric tribe that it needs a farm, force them to change their lifestyle, and teach them how to run said farm.

Edit: Perhaps we should make it so that when you capture a unit you don't have the tech for, it becomes something else, e.g. a gatherer in this case. Though atm it is imo not worth the effort, as the current setup work just fine the way I see it.

 

[Somebody613]

Its not problem, you just don't know difference between Tech Reveal and Tech Enable.
I guess tooltip could say tech reveal/enable and display it in green, if you have those techs.

See the screencaps.

Do I need to specifically tell you that Scavenging Camp *DOES NOT* actually "provide" any Sheep?

 

[Blazenclaw]

Likewise a servitude ancient era worker won't be able to convince the prehistoric tribe that it needs a farm, force them to change their lifestyle, and teach them how to run said farm.

The only bit that's weird here is that some improvements change with sedentary lifestyle (plant gathering camp vs plant picking camp), while some improvements do not (stone tools workshop vs stone tools workshop). However, even the ones that do not change, still alter from previously requiring unit consumption to not requiring unit consumption. Is that distinction enough? I don't know, it's an odd edge case...

 

[Toffer90]

The only bit that's weird here is that some improvements change with sedentary lifestyle (plant gathering camp vs plant picking camp), while some improvements do not (stone tools workshop vs stone tools workshop). However, even the ones that do not change, still alter from previously requiring unit consumption to not requiring unit consumption. Is that distinction enough? I don't know, it's an odd edge case...

Ah, right both consume and un-consume versions should unlock at same tech, but the un-consume version should only be available for the worker while the consume version only for the gatherer.
I thought that's how it used to be...
I mean if the worker builds build the same improvement then they should unlock at the same tech, worker units defines when it really becomes available.
There may be some exception to that rule, e.g that the two worker builds build the same improvements, and are both available for the same workers, just one is faster or less costly than the other, then they may unlock on different techs.

 

[raxo2222]

See the screencaps.

Do I need to specifically tell you that Scavenging Camp *DOES NOT* actually "provide" any Sheep?

Do you have Canine Domestication? Its Tech Enabled for sheep.
You need resource tech enable for improvement to provide resource.

I guess build action tooltip must be rewritten.
That is: Provides Resource with Tech Enable.

 

[Somebody613]

I guess build action tooltip must be rewritten.
That is: Provides Resource with Tech Enable.

DUH.

 

[Snofru1]

But it already says that, look at screenshot0002.jpg : It says, written in red: "Research: Canine Domestication" and "Requires: Scavenging Camp". For me this is clear enough.

Or am I missing something here?

 

[margolloxx]

Is there a way to kill an animal hiding inside your city without any of the combat options on?

 

[Somebody613]

But it already says that, look at screenshot0002.jpg : It says, written in red: "Research: Canine Domestication" and "Requires: Scavenging Camp". For me this is clear enough.

Or am I missing something here?

Yes, you ARE.
Screens show:
00 - Mouse over [Scavenging camp] GATHERER ACTION BUTTON. It is highlighted in white. "Provides RESOURSE, consumes UNIT". BAD (no RESOURSE).
01 - Mouse over [Nomadic herd] GATHERER ACTION BUTTON. It is unavailable and unclickable. "Requires TECH, provides RESOURSE, consumes UNIT". FINE.
02 - Mouse over [Sheep] MAP PLOT. "Is RESOURSE, requires TECH, requires IMPROVEMENT". FINE.
The actual problem is only in screen 00 - which promises to "provide RESOURSE with IMPROVEMENT" unconditionally, but that is FALSE.
The other two screens are TRUE, since both remind you that you also require TECH to get this RESOURSE.
Is it clear now?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Is there a way to kill an animal hiding inside your city without any of the combat options on?

Hunters should be able to use the assassinate command to do so. Interesting we're seeing them inside cities now so some have been updated to be able to be able to - that's cool.