1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Caveman 2 Cosmos

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    Ugh, this is torture.

    Downloaded the new version, worked great, had a good game going, several reloads no problem, then had to get out of the game to answer some e-mail, and on reloading now the terrain is all black again.

    Tried loading from autosave, clearing cache, play now, loading autosave, restarting computer. all black terrain.

    This is utterly bizarre - what could possibly be causing it?
     
  2. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    You guys really need an installer or somewhere people can get directions to get this thing running properly. You're assuming way too much modding knowledge on the part of the public.
     
  3. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I find this problem elusive to identify and solve. I have also found that overlapping files packed into the FPK graphics can cause this as a repetitive problem. I had the Israel FPK overlapping some of its graphic references with the original extra civ FPKs and by disabling the Israel FPK, I was able to stop the problem.

    Not that it never happens now but a restart clears it up. Its also been a problem others have been making note of more and more recently and I'm wondering if it has something to do WITH the Israel FPK, but I can't be sure what it'd do if you disabled it without taking Israel out entirely.
     
  4. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    Yeah, this mod plays better than anything I've seen (and I've been playing since the original including the Activision games, Double Your Pleasure/Rise and Rule, FfH etc...).

    Can anyone tell me how I "unpack the C2C.fpk and erase it"?
     
  5. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    How do I do this?

    :mischief:

    Now that CivV officially blows (at least for the time being), you'll likely be getting more people here who don't know all the ins and outs of modding. I'm trying to learn what I can, but I've never had to know how to mod just to play one before.
     
  6. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    The actual strange thing is that it ever worked. I can erase everything, reboot, and reinstall and I still get the black terrain. Once it goes black, it never goes back.
     
  7. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,540
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    I sometimes have some units go pink. the only way I can fix it is to reinstall BtS and patch it to 3.19. Luckily you can do this without losing any mods. Maybe try that.
     
  8. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Ok, well, first, go into the Assets/Modules/Custom Civlizations file and delete (or simply move since you don't want to make this a permanent deletion until we know it works) the Israel file.

    Then go back out into the Assets file and move the Israel.FPK file out of the mod.

    Then try to run it and see if the black persists. If it works, we may have some sort of problem with the Israel FPK file. (Sorry SO... going on a theory here.)
     
  9. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    Thanks for the reply.

    On of the good things about making a great mod is that people will actually go through the trouble of teaching themselves about modding if that is what it takes to get to play it.

    :)

    Last night I figured out what FPK files are, unpacked the big FPK and (noticing that it created a folder called art) merged it with the existing art folder. There were in fact 15 files that it asked me about (the versions of those files in the FPK were uncapitilized, those in the art folder capitalized) so there is some overlap there. I then deleted the original big FPK and the Israel FPK for good measure (didn't know about the custom civs piece) and voila! problem solved.

    Also load times that reminded me of 1995...

    More importantly, the game continued!
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    16,250
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    Great to see you figured it out Bezhukov! :goodjob:

    JosEPh
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    wow... an excellent outcome there. Nice way to go about auditing the fpk files. You could also do us all a favor and post your final fpk files with some instructions on what they override ;)

    No doubt, right? I mean, that's the only reason I, myself, have learned any tricks is because I'm so enamored of this mod.

    Has it improved turn times as well? Makes me think maybe having so many distinct and separate FPKs might be contributing a great deal to long turn and load times. It thus would not be difficult to combine them all. If certain files within don't get used, that shouldn't make for a problem so why not include them all in one? This could revolutionalize the playability of our mod entirely.
     
  12. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    Thx. It's a very silly game. One city founded eight or nine religions, 4 turn Plaza (the wonder that gives you markets) build in 5000BC, +80 gpt on 100% science.

    Some tweaking may be in order...
     
  13. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2004
    Messages:
    23,540
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Canberra, Australia
    Do you have the "Divine Prophets" option on? I find that it causes too many Great Prophets to be born and skew the religion founding.
     
  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    It doesn't throw it off too much if you don't have Choose Religions on as well. Still... I've been considering an overhaul of the means by which we might achieve some extra prophets for religion founding under DP... as it is I have to agree that it throws the balance a bit.

    That said, I also forsee overhauling ALL of the 'first to reach a tech' benefits. As a general rule, they simply serve to give the leading civ a farther lead, which I don't really think has benefited the game play of CivIV and prev Civs as a whole. It would be better if the game did more to help those behind catch up instead (we have some of that with tech diffusion now and it does help but we could use more of this thinking.)

    To answer to:
    This mod expresses a difference between gold and commerce. Commerce alone can be split by the tax rate percentages but that which provides purely gold will only go towards your gold per round count. This is how you can end up with excess gold coming in when you're on 100% research. In some ways, this changes some strategic thinking when it comes to managing your empire.

    And, yes, under Divine Prophets, cities are no longer randomly assigned religions - they are founded by prophets - and the ai will place new religions wherever they get their prophet - which will always be in the capital if the prophet was achieved by reaching a religion founding tech first (a free prophet replaces the automatic assignment of a new religion to the first to reach techs that normally grant the founding of a religion).

    So I'm thinking about finding new ways to balance out the benefits of the different GPs and then giving more ways to focus a city into the birthing of these Great People so that I can take out the free prophet feature and give us other ways to birth them normally, competing with new ways to spur the birth of OTHER GPs. To be fair about this, however, we need to think of ways to make the other GPs more worthwhile to achieve in the early game.

    Some ideas:
    • Make artist's culture blasts a LOT more powerful (like immediately puts a city into using its 3rd rung)
    • Make artists capable of ending civlization-wide anarchy instantly.
    • Increase the gold from Merchant missions drastically.
    • Make merchants capable of starting a golden age alone, regardless of how many golden ages have been initiated by GPs.
    • Make merchants capable of forcing a civilization to end a war.
    • Give Engineers a potent building that only they can build that gives a strong benefit to production in that city (like the scientist's academy but for production)
    • Give Engineers the ability to add a vast amount of production to a city that can all be spent in the same round on a queue of buildings, etc... rather than capping out at completing a given building to counteract the fact that our wonders now take so much less time to build than they did in vanilla.
    • Give us some buildings that greatly increase the values of city specialists OTHER than just for prophets (currently there are like 4 buildings that add a hammer to every priest - hard for any other specialist type to compare to priests at that point... so the trick would be to give us access to buildings that help the others to balance out.)
    • Put some special techs with very nice benefits aside - perhaps one for each era - that ONLY a great Scientist can access. - Perhaps they could even lead to an entire alternative means to traverse the tech tree faster.
    • Review some of our wonders and select some to limit to purely being able to be built by a particular type of GP. Like the Sistine Chapel for example. In this way, we put the horse back in front of the cart, making it so that simpler buildings generate the basic GP points while the larger buildings are the RESULT of GPs - which is more like historic reality really.

    More ideas here would be good to brainstorm out.
     
  15. Praetyre

    Praetyre King

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    942
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I like the idea of the GP-only techs and wonders.. for the techs, you could do something like what Hydromancerx was suggesting for RoM's Civ V edition, with these "special" techs representing lost or alternate paths for history. For instance:

    Prehistoric: Megafauna Domestication (Both potent and alternate history)
    Ancient: Ancient Computing (The Antikythera mechanism writ large: Big boosts to science output and the speed and power of all naval vessels right up to the atomic age. Also greatly speeds up calculation and computer-based technologies like Mathematics, Architecture, Computers, Radar etc.)
    Classical: Greek Fire (Enables a new Fire Galley unit, ala Age of Empires, and a new Fire Tower building for the ultimate in pre-gunpowder defense.)
    Medieval: Lost Relics (Enables the "discovery" of special items like the Ark of the Covenant, Shroud of Turin, etc. that act as world wonders with enormous benefits for particular religions. Would need at least one wonder for each religion of that time)
    Renaissance: Da Vinci Tech (For lack of a better word. Early glider technology and aircraft in the Renaissance)
    Industrial: Supertech (For lack of a better word, again. Think something like the early-Dreadnought that is this monstrosity.
    Modern: Ultraefficient Motor (Something akin to those urban legends about suppressed 200 MPG carburetors. A benefit akin to early Fusion or SMAC's Clean Reactors, with virtually no upkeep costs for engine-based units and greatly increased speed. Downside, of course, is that it would probably reduce the value of fossil fuels...)
    Transhuman: Sapient AI (The potential for a global "robot rebellion", with a new faction, ala Planetfall's way of handling the SMAX factions, popping up and seceding from mankind, taking all the robotic units with it.).
    Space: Time Travel (Dunno. Always difficult to use as a device without seeming contrived. Maybe some world wonder that enables you to recover any units lost in battle 10% of the time at the base the wonder is in?)

    As for wonders, I very much like the idea of reducing the directly player-buildable wonders to ones that mostly just increase GP point output, and restricting things like the Sistine Chapel (largely the product of Michelangelo's vision) to GP's. You'd have to go through the list, of course, but the only other issue I can see you running into is that most "modern" wonders and projects (like the Manhattan Project, First Cloned Mammal, Cure for Cancer, Eden Project, etc.) have been "built" or will almost certainly be built collaboratively by groups of scientists working in tandem, rather than under the helm of a specific individual. Thus, most of the GP-wonders will be confined to the Renaissance.

    Also, on a totally random note, I wonder what should be done with the "Civic" wonders like Women's Suffrage or Universal Healthcare. It doesn't really make sense to build these if you are running non-democratic politics or aren't using the Subsidized or Socialized Welfare civics. Perhaps remove the healthcare one and restrict Women's Suffrage to "democratic" forms of government (like Republic, Parliamentary, Federalism, etc.)
     
  16. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    16,281
    Location:
    California, USA
    I like most of these ideas especially the Scientist tech one. If we could incorporate the proposed "Steampunk" and other alternative timeline techs. Then again i may want to save them to be linked to having the right combo of wonders under your control.
     
  17. Czacki

    Czacki Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2010
    Messages:
    160
    Hello,

    since AND is no longer under active development and it suffers from game breaking balance issues, I can only hope C2C will fix those :p

    quoting myself from ROM:AND board:

    ANy of those fixed? Most are really spoiling the atmosphere. Making the game not challenging at all.
     
  18. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    Thunderbrd,

    Alot of great ideas there.

    There's a mod for CivV that lets to train great people to build super-improvements for each resource - that would be an interesting direction to go.

    Also highly recommend checking out Realism Invictus.
     
  19. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,001
    One of the several things RI does to stop runaway civs is that it gives civs a progressively larger discount (starting at 50%) when researching a tech already known by a civ with which that civ has open borders.

    It's a much tighter, tho, alas, less enjoyable, game than C2C.
     
  20. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2010
    Messages:
    27,903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Bezhukov: Well... we'll have to take a look at some of what it does there. An interesting idea about super-improvements. And another way to help civs keep up... I like.

    Czacki: I'll address these points as best I can:

    1) We have had it mentioned about the withdraw percentage, that generals can make it so that high withdraw units can become invincible... I think we may have addressed it but I can't remember if we had. If we haven't, we do need to cap withdrawal percentages at 95% tops.

    But then, only generals can really do this and if you can get everything around the general to flee, the general itself can still be destroyed making it not an unbeatable scenario.

    2) From what I can tell, I'm not entirely sure upgrading buildings is working quite properly anyhow... seems to me you can build a lesser upgrade AFTER a greater upgrade... The point is well made, however, that if you are upgrading a building, it should be better than the previous version - especially if its going to override the benefits of the previous (which is what I'm not entirely certain is actually happening as it is supposed to...) If we have a problem with this, we do need to work on it but I'm not a master programmer by any means so in many cases where the dll programming is flawed, fixes are hard to figure out. By the time the mod is 'finished' I'm sure we will have addressed this. Its a work in progress of course ;)

    3) I had a personal issue with this when I played AND as well... and yeah, it needs to be addressed. It may have been but I haven't experienced that era yet since the mod gets updated so often and the prehistoric era has been the focus until now, as we delve into working on the future. But I agree that issue was a bit annoying.

    4) Ok, so this aspect may make things tough for the AI to grasp the benefits of how to tweak the system. And your proposal there does make some sense. But then again, its pretty cool to have the human brain enough to manipulate systems to your advantage. This makes the game more intense on a human v human level... and I'm not entirely sure the mod would benefit from such proposed changes. But then, everyone has their own take on how religions should be handled and we've opened a lot of debating on such matters. Things being in flux as they are, I can forsee eventual options emerging to address all these perspectives. Again, programming may become the only limitation, one which can only be overcome with a LOT of patience at the moment.

    5) I love that our current system can support poorly placed cities. This helps us to balance the game where poor starting points are concerned. HOWEVER, I still notice that cities in bad spots don't show as much potential as those that have better placement. In this mod, in particular, the problem with AND and this issue has been tackled by actually going in the opposite direction. Rather than pulling back on the benefits certain resources, Hydro has masterfully expressed that by giving us special buildings based on particular resources, we can pull the game back into a balance (albeit an excessive one that appeals to a more is better style of thought (I like this thinking)).

    Additionally, where gold is concerned, I'm working with Hydro to tweak the buildings so that we have a more even balance of gold income throughout all eras. Abandoning an overreliance on increasing maintenance costs that really impact most during the mid-modern eras of the game, making corporations and guilds less than beneficial, and moving more towards outright gold costs to maintain particular buildings should help to balance this out. This is something I understand Hydro is working on now. I'm sure we'll continue the tweaking process until this matter is fully resolved.

    6) The ai's military is not what concerns me. Some ai's actually prefer having too much. The problem has largely been that the ai doesn't build its food and production buildings as an outright ultimate priority, so that it tends to lag in its ability to keep up with everything else later in the game, including troops and gold output to support them. I've attempted a fix in the dll on this matter and am currently looking at it in greater depth to continue to work on improvements there. You're right... the ai has never been much of a challenge in AND and its worse here with even more buildings to consider. So, the short answer is, yeah, I'm working on that personally because that one's the most important of your list to address IMHO.


    Praetyr: I like most of your suggestions - they'll have to be debated out a bit more before implementation and we already have a lot on our plate so this isn't something we can expect so see overnight. But most of those are good places to start considering, one era at a time.

    As for the wonders where you mentioned that 'teams' of scientists developed various wonders, I still think that a great scientist could be made to create them. I mean, even teams are under the lead of a great mind at its core. The Manhattan Project would've gotten nowhere without Oppenheimer, for example.
     

Share This Page