Caveman 2 Cosmos

I like the idea of the GP-only techs and wonders.. for the techs, you could do something like what Hydromancerx was suggesting for RoM's Civ V edition, with these "special" techs representing lost or alternate paths for history. For instance:

Prehistoric: Megafauna Domestication (Both potent and alternate history)
Ancient: Ancient Computing (The Antikythera mechanism writ large: Big boosts to science output and the speed and power of all naval vessels right up to the atomic age. Also greatly speeds up calculation and computer-based technologies like Mathematics, Architecture, Computers, Radar etc.)
Classical: Greek Fire (Enables a new Fire Galley unit, ala Age of Empires, and a new Fire Tower building for the ultimate in pre-gunpowder defense.)
Medieval: Lost Relics (Enables the "discovery" of special items like the Ark of the Covenant, Shroud of Turin, etc. that act as world wonders with enormous benefits for particular religions. Would need at least one wonder for each religion of that time)
Renaissance: Da Vinci Tech (For lack of a better word. Early glider technology and aircraft in the Renaissance)
Industrial: Supertech (For lack of a better word, again. Think something like the early-Dreadnought that is this monstrosity.
Modern: Ultraefficient Motor (Something akin to those urban legends about suppressed 200 MPG carburetors. A benefit akin to early Fusion or SMAC's Clean Reactors, with virtually no upkeep costs for engine-based units and greatly increased speed. Downside, of course, is that it would probably reduce the value of fossil fuels...)
Transhuman: Sapient AI (The potential for a global "robot rebellion", with a new faction, ala Planetfall's way of handling the SMAX factions, popping up and seceding from mankind, taking all the robotic units with it.).
Space: Time Travel (Dunno. Always difficult to use as a device without seeming contrived. Maybe some world wonder that enables you to recover any units lost in battle 10% of the time at the base the wonder is in?)

As for wonders, I very much like the idea of reducing the directly player-buildable wonders to ones that mostly just increase GP point output, and restricting things like the Sistine Chapel (largely the product of Michelangelo's vision) to GP's. You'd have to go through the list, of course, but the only other issue I can see you running into is that most "modern" wonders and projects (like the Manhattan Project, First Cloned Mammal, Cure for Cancer, Eden Project, etc.) have been "built" or will almost certainly be built collaboratively by groups of scientists working in tandem, rather than under the helm of a specific individual. Thus, most of the GP-wonders will be confined to the Renaissance.

Also, on a totally random note, I wonder what should be done with the "Civic" wonders like Women's Suffrage or Universal Healthcare. It doesn't really make sense to build these if you are running non-democratic politics or aren't using the Subsidized or Socialized Welfare civics. Perhaps remove the healthcare one and restrict Women's Suffrage to "democratic" forms of government (like Republic, Parliamentary, Federalism, etc.)

I think there are some good ideas here. Perhaps you could start a thread to discuss them in the RoMMods forum so they don't get lost.

ANy of those fixed? Most are really spoiling the atmosphere. Making the game not challenging at all.

4. Something has gone wrong with the religions, I think they went back a version, now even the happiness is not dependent on your religion. :(
 
Thunderbrd, thanks for detailed reply!

I'd add some thoughts on some points:

1) This actually may be used to the mod's advantage and could be a way to eliminate stacks of doom. Because an experienced army with a great warlord will easily trample a five-times bigger stack of doom, making experienced units much more valuable than in vanilla, where quantity was better than quality almost all the time. And let's face it, most people prefer smaller, stronger stacks than brainless mass of 100 axemen. If you chose to balance it this way, increasing troop maintenance cost and getting AI to "smarten up" and use warlord/commander units wisely would be an interesting move. Everybody hated stacks of doom in vanilla, so a mod that focuses on small, powerful stacks would be an interesting experience.

Thing is, however, not to overdo it with the power of experienced warlord units :p I'd suggest, if possible, to halve the bonus from retreat (+3 exp instead of +6) to reduce the speed at which warlord units gain experience a bit if dynamic XP is on. I'm happy to know you're going to cap out the withdraw to 95%, there should always be a failure chance. ;)

Also, if possible, it would be wise to tweak withdraw on defense a bit. For instance, limit it to 1 retreat per turn, so if the stack gets pursuited, it gets destroyed.

The absolute best would be to somehow link retreat chance with unit strength (checked pre-combat). If the unit is really weak and next-to-dead, it's only logical it cannot escape so well like a healthy, rested one. THis is however only wishful thinking, I have no idea on whether this is even code-able.


2. A quick solution to fix this without troubling you with too much analytic work over the building bonuses would be to unlink some buildings, so that i.e. grocer no longer upgrades to (and gets obsoleted by) supermarket. That would put the whole upgrade issues to an okay state without much work.

4. Well, that makes sense of course. However, the AI doesn't prioritize religion much so far, overwhelmed by the amounts of tech a bit, and it's too easy for the player to get them all. I do agree it's extremely fun to have all of them, but also it's too easy! in vanilla it was really, really hard to snatch religions from AI, and there, the bonuses for getting one were much lower (no special upgrades, religious wonders less powerful).

And certain religious wonders should be buffed so they match palace of potala level.
 
On the point of religions, I/"we" am/are waiting for Afforess to come out with his final version (i bet it wont be) but anyways, 1.76, then "we" get a brand NEW Limited religions, that RevDCM Team says works fine. But he said he wont do it till after school is out and that will be May 31. So it will take us awhile to incorporate his stuff back into our stuff, and vice versa. SO i would expect the religion stuff to work sometime in the Jun/Jul/Aug time frame.

But i do agree on the AI being to easy, that was also done by Afforess and making them defend more.

EDIT:
All you really need to do is check "Raging Barbarians" and that should make up the difference, cause then the AI HAS to make more troops than anything else to survive., Just a thought for now.
 
5) I love that our current system can support poorly placed cities. This helps us to balance the game where poor starting points are concerned. HOWEVER, I still notice that cities in bad spots don't show as much potential as those that have better placement. In this mod, in particular, the problem with AND and this issue has been tackled by actually going in the opposite direction. Rather than pulling back on the benefits certain resources, Hydro has masterfully expressed that by giving us special buildings based on particular resources, we can pull the game back into a balance (albeit an excessive one that appeals to a more is better style of thought (I like this thinking)).

Additionally, where gold is concerned, I'm working with Hydro to tweak the buildings so that we have a more even balance of gold income throughout all eras. Abandoning an overreliance on increasing maintenance costs that really impact most during the mid-modern eras of the game, making corporations and guilds less than beneficial, and moving more towards outright gold costs to maintain particular buildings should help to balance this out. This is something I understand Hydro is working on now. I'm sure we'll continue the tweaking process until this matter is fully resolved.

Indeed this issue seems to be hard to solve. People like Czacki say there is too much gold while others like strategyonly say that things cost too much gold and thus you never want to build the building with negative gold. Same goes for the health buildings vs the unhealthy buildings.

At the moment its very hard to balance anything since there are still a ton of buildings that need to be added, adjusted and sometimes even redone. What I would like to get is a system where there are a lot of base buildings that give you your food, production, gold and health. Then the higher tier buildings have some negative and some positive traits but give you things the lower buildings cannot. Such as promotions, units, and unlocking other buildings.

I think this may need its own topic soon since its an issue that will take a long time to figure out how to balance.

2. A quick solution to fix this without troubling you with too much analytic work over the building bonuses would be to unlink some buildings, so that i.e. grocer no longer upgrades to (and gets obsoleted by) supermarket. That would put the whole upgrade issues to an okay state without much work.

Well things have been a bit lopsided at the moment since I have been working my way up through the eras trying to fill things in. Some of the major problems are at City Planning where all your huts disappear. I have yet to fill in the rest of the residential buildings and thus it is imbalanced at the moment. Another imbalanced part is at guilds where bunch of buildings go away. I have not yet figured out how to fix this since I do not want to mess up the whole guilds system. Lastly there are all the farm buildings that go away with the Farmscrapers. This is just me not getting to the later eras yet. There will be tons of balancing and addting due to the Space stuff and while I am there I am sure I will go and tweak some of the other techs and buildings too to respond to the more filled out lower eras.
 
To address some of Czacki's concerns;

Aforress went through the same process with AND. And it came about because Deity level players wanted more. So he started to go in that direction. But what happened was that avg players were soon getting squeezed out and told to go play lower levels if they couldn't handle the game. This took a Ton of the Fun out of AND. Aforress tried to right the ship with 1.75c. But it became apparent that if you cater to the elite you lose the masses.

Now both C2C and AND have many Options to increase the Mods difficulty levels. You want a harder game add in the Revolutions, Raging Barbs, and etc, etc., options to get a harder game. You want a little less check the No Rev box, etc., at game start up.

In time the AI inefficiencies will get addressed because even the Noble level player will comment on it. But this Mod is Far from a Finished product. Let Strategy, Hydro, TB, DH, and Civ Feuher have sometime to work thru this Monster project. It will get there if the modders don't get "burnt" or burned out. It's already happened to RoM, Zappara got burnt and burned out, and to a lesser degree so did Aforress with AND.

JosEPh
 
I have the same problem as others with Industrialism tech. The crash happens when You try enter city screen (not all of them but most) after researching Ind so that's why game can crash after switching turns, if i set queues in every city the crash delays.

I tried number of things like giving all AI this tech, deleting all bauxite ore and prime timber resources but nothing seems to help. The moment i discover Ind - game over.
I don't know what else i could do in game...

I'm using CvC v9 clean install, no other mods on Civ4Gold. Exact version:
Caveman2Cosmosv9.7z 830467093b downloaded on 02mar11

This is last good save game
hope someone can help solving this
 

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In time the AI inefficiencies will get addressed because even the Noble level player will comment on it. But this Mod is Far from a Finished product. Let Strategy, Hydro, TB, DH, and Civ Feuher have sometime to work thru this Monster project. It will get there if the modders don't get "burnt" or burned out. It's already happened to RoM, Zappara got burnt and burned out, and to a lesser degree so did Aforress with AND.

What I am hopping is even when people in the project get "out of the groove" and "loose their mojo" that others will still have the modding spirit and keep it going. I have had a few times where I ave just not been in the mood for C2C and I do something else and then come back fresh with new idea. Nothing is wrong with this, in fact its good to have some away time. In short between all the contributors and fans posting ideas I think we can keep this project alive. And really everything I think we have finished the needed part to the mod there are 3 more cool ideas that pop up that are just too good not to do. We could literally keep doing this for years if we were motivated to. I think as long as it stays fun to mod and play that there will be someone working on it.
 
I have the same problem as others with Industrialism tech. The crash happens when You try enter city screen (not all of them but most) after researching Ind so that's why game can crash after switching turns, if i set queues in every city the crash delays.

I tried number of things like giving all AI this tech, deleting all bauxite ore and prime timber resources but nothing seems to help. The moment i discover Ind - game over.
I don't know what else i could do in game...

I'm using CvC v9 clean install, no other mods on Civ4Gold. Exact version:
Caveman2Cosmosv9.7z 830467093b downloaded on 02mar11

This is last good save game
hope someone can help solving this


Same problem(as I previously mentioned here but was deleted...). I tried a lot of things but nothing helped. I had previous version, tried to delete pretty much everything on map, tried giving techs in world editor, tried removing buildings, workaround, new game..
So I uninstalled C2C, deleted BTS folder in Documents\My Games, installed new version, run a new game and as soon as I research Industrialism and game is about to put me in the city screen it freezes and I can do nothing about it... I just hope that somebody will figure this out. I will try load that save under 32bit Win XP instead of x64 W7 but that will hardly help as well. Maybe we have different version of Rise of Mankind or I don't know..

Here is my last working save..:
 

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The problem with Industrialism is documented and is something I'm about to reach in my game so I should, at that point (since I have a rather unique file set with this one) be able to tackle the problem (I hope...).
 
Btw, I'm by all means NOT a Deity-level player. Actually, I prefer lower difficulty and getting a peaceful, powerful empire. However, RoM:AND was significantly easier than vanilla BTS, mainly because of poor AI and very noob-friendly cities (it is EXTREMELY hard NOT to go to 90% science with a positive gold per turn...). To a point where it simply wasn't challenging at all, which is not good at all for anyone, good or bad player alike.

However, I'm very certain that fixing those 6 points (well, mostly withdrawal and AI that struggles in war and development) and making the cities a BIT more costly would turn things back to normal. I'm happy to see you're tweaking the mod. C2C, if finished, will most likely be THE best Civilization experience of ALL time. I hope that when I get back in next 2-3 months, the major issues will be dealt with and I will be able to play this a lot ^^

Regarding AI, I think that it tries a bit of everything and fails at it. Perhaps there is a way to specialize AI more? Some leaders could go for religions as priority, some would try to make great commanders (and protect them at all costs) while massing huge amounts of troops, some would fortify and go for space race. That could be determined by their traits rather then their BTS AI to make support for custom leaders. For example, a Spiritual leader would be likely to prioritize religion and an aggresive one would be likely to mass troops. Charismatic would try to make great commanders+experienced units prioritizing certain promotions like flanking, and so on.

Future tech wars should definitively be re-balanced, especially units. Lots of RoM future units overlap in their roles or get obsolete extremely fast. Some units should definitively get better upgrade lines (Plasma Tank -> Dreadnought Armor, for instance). I also suggest to make a progression for artillery units beyond NLOS cannon.

Oh, and one personal requests. Most models added in RoM are really beautiful. However, Orbital fighter/bomber look really unattractive, just a blury brown mass (that's hardly distinguishable). Is there any chance to improve those models or replace them? Compared to beautiful F-22 raptor model, or Dreadnought armor, they just look so... uninteresting.

Finally, all ships upgrading to "fusion ships" seems a bit stretched. There's virtually no difference between fusion cruiser and fusion battleship, other than str. perhaps there should only be one fusion ship (being an upgrade for all surface warships of modern time) instead of ligher, medium and stronger fusion ship? (which is redundant). Instead, we could get a "hi-end" ship for space age as upgrade.

Cheers friends.
 
Hi, first to say that I love this mod :goodjob:

But the game shutdown in 9737 BC, and i don't know why, I tried changing tech research and actions but still the game go off ?

Any explanation or fix to do ? :confused:

I attached two save game

I'm playing with the C2C Beta 10.1 - revolution mod off
 

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Hi, first to say that I love this mod :goodjob:

But the game shutdown in 9737 BC, and i don't know why, I tried changing tech research and actions but still the game go off ?

Any explanation or fix to do ? :confused:

I attached two save game

I'm playing with the C2C Beta 10.1 - revolution mod off

Look at post 1631 just above your post , near the bottom of the page. Also see 1st post.
 
Thanks a lot, :thumbsup:

I update the CIV4Gamespeedinfo.xml from the post of Thunderbrd http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10350819&postcount=1596 and it works perfect for now.

I see that in 1st post Praetyr is updating, so i will check. Sorry for my questions before i did not understand what "long movies" stood for.:crazyeye:

Yeah, just incase anyone is wondering, i have mainly just a static movies (usually under 50kb), cause its less memory taken when playing, but if you put in the actual movies, which some people like, they are like between 100kb and 8000kb times bigger, depending on the movie(s).
 
I think the comments in AND here about the Pyramids in particular are a great idea for C2C

Hmm. Some good points. The graveyards make more sense but it would be nice for some sort of wonder to give irrigation canals in every city.

You know what might be better? I think it was you Dancing Hoskuld who was complaining that you could not recreate Egypt because of the flood plains giving the huge :yuck: What if the Pyramids gave no :yuck: in that city? That would sort of simulate the Nile if you build the Pyramids on a flood plain.

On a side topic but related I was thinking maybe we should have some bonus if you obtain specific wonders such as ...

Great Pyramids + Sphinx (in the same city) = ?

7 Wonders of the Ancient World
- Great Pyramids
- Hanging Gardens
- Statue of Zeus (Must have Hellenism)
- Colossus of Rhodes
- Temple of Artemis (Do we have this?)
- Mausoleum of Halicarnassus (Do we have this?)

Not sure what getting all of these would give you. Maybe it could trigger a quest reward.
 
Hmm. Some good points. The graveyards make more sense but it would be nice for some sort of wonder to give irrigation canals in every city.

You know what might be better? I think it was you Dancing Hoskuld who was complaining that you could not recreate Egypt because of the flood plains giving the huge :yuck: What if the Pyramids gave no :yuck: in that city? That would sort of simulate the Nile if you build the Pyramids on a flood plain.

On a side topic but related I was thinking maybe we should have some bonus if you obtain specific wonders such as ...

Great Pyramids + Sphinx (in the same city) = ?

7 Wonders of the Ancient World
- Great Pyramids
- Hanging Gardens
- Statue of Zeus (Must have Hellenism)
- Colossus of Rhodes
- Temple of Artemis (Do we have this?)
- Mausoleum of Halicarnassus (Do we have this?)

Not sure what getting all of these would give you. Maybe it could trigger a quest reward.

- Temple of Artemis (Do we have this?) - polytheseum tech
- Mausoleum of Halicarnassus (Do we have this?) - calendar tech

But then what about Babylon, Sumer, and the Harrapan/Indus civs just to name a few large civs built on flood plains?
 
please help me! when i download the mod, says me the downloa has expired, and i really want to play this mod
any help? :confused:
 
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