Caveman 2 Cosmos

[DRJ]

Great ! Also I could just send a horse bandit in each major cities of my opponents, and use it every turn to pillage the surrounding area of the city, or destroy weak units, and then re-enter the city to be safe until next turn, so there is no way that my unit will be destroyed if I use it carefully... and it could bring huge amount of damage...

As I understand it, the judges will be able to expose criminals in cities like the anti spy buildings do with thwarted spies.

From a reality point of view, it could make sense to enter/leave with impunity in a city without walls, but if there are walls around it, there are gates too, right ? And the gates are guarded so bandits could not leave/re-enter the city to ravage the surrounding country with impunity like that.

The castle mod contains the catacombs building, simulating secret passageways and, I believe, as a positive effect, giving some money as well as spy points... but to be honest there is seldomly an incentive to build them as a player.
But nearly all big and long-lived ancient cities had caves and catacombs. Perhaps an autobuild candidate once a castle + walls is built? Also, I think the construction of city gates (also auto?) should enable criminals to enter cities more easily; as in history, for example, small side gates, nightly opened by corrupted guards were VERY common.

So perhaps bandits should be forbidden to enter a city with walls, or walls should add a bonus to Law Enforcement units (as well as town watch, town guards, etc.).

The thing is that they can be exposed (simplified fleeing or being caught) each turn at a certain propability, regardless if just moved there or not, so why not give the bandits the spy type promotion and the judges and town watchmen the can thwart promotion?

Can the criminals be either pseudo spy class or combat? Or formulated in another way, can a unit have two classes at the same time?

A followup would be to investigate what units are/would be combined classes as well, we might have missed something that hasn't been on the radar or could be simulated deeper and enrich the game

- Also, I love the combat feature of Realism Invictus, where different types of units give a bonus to the whole stack : heavy bonus from the heavy unit, recon bonus from the recon units, etc.
It's great because it feels way more realistic and it's an awesome incentive to have balanced stacks that feels like a real army, vs huge stack of one-unit-type.

Do you plan to integrate it in C2C, at least as an option ?

I would love to play that as well. It has always been a major weakness of civ that the unit vs unit fight doesn't simulate the battlefield situation very well.

Another thing the proposed change would mean is that an army would need to have a lot of different promotions, so even the smallest promotion could turn a battle. So each unit would become more important and, thus, "alive". The AI just would have to learn that a stack should have the biggest variety of promotions present aside its urge for some major promotions being the norm.

Playing this way would feel like simulating a certain position of units in a game of chess, where you have a lot of pawns (archers, melee inf), rooks (tanks, siege), bishops (scouts and dogs) and horses (cav^^), just one queen (maybe a hero/ attached general) and a king (in our case great commander). So each stack could would be like its own set of pieces. yay! I like chess!

 

[Midano]

Can the criminals be either pseudo spy class or combat? Or formulated in another way, can a unit have two classes at the same time?

A followup would be to investigate what units are/would be combined classes as well, we might have missed something that hasn't been on the radar or could be simulated deeper and enrich the game

I'm happy to make one of the member of team think about it. I hope you and the rest of the team will figure something about this

I would love to play that as well. It has always been a major weakness of civ that the unit vs unit fight doesn't simulate the battlefield situation very well.

When I read your comment I'm not sure that you understood 100% what I mean : actually, this option already exist in the mod Realism Invictus (previously Total Realism) : if a scout is present in a stack for example, he will give to the entire stack the "scout" bonus, which give if I recall correctly 1 first attack and 10% chance of escaping if loosing the battle.
An heavy unit (like an axe guy) will give +10% strenght to every unit in the stack as long as he is alive, etc.

It really change totally the way you do battles and wars. Why not just implement this already existing function right into C2C ?

 

[DRJ]

Yes, that was what I anticipated
I just liked to "picture" it to myself (and maybe make it imagineable for others)

Sadly I am not one of the team members that can implement things (I am allergic to code, a side effect of a lot of ) but a simple betatester, although experienced commentator.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I would love to play that as well. It has always been a major weakness of civ that the unit vs unit fight doesn't simulate the battlefield situation very well.

I thought that was what the DCM (Dale's Combat Mod) in the RevDCM mod did.

 

[Ag0range]

Probably, a fine solution for the horse bandit rider issue might be one of the following:

1) Crime rate in the city. If it is high, the chance to be thwarted is low (he has where to hide), this might favour the players and AI to build civilian-type defense-only Town Watchmen and Guard units instead of loads of armies.

2) As you say, walls with other solutions like Nightwatch might keep reducing crime. Thus, there will be no need to implement unnecessary calculations like the relation between Law enforcement units and bandits. I actually like these different categories - spies, criminals, civilians... So, the game might calculate the thwart chance for the criminals just like it does for the spies...

3) By the way I didn't ever manage to build an Assassin or even Rogue in this v.30. No idea why, probably under Republic you can't have your personal criminals? Why did I manage to build Bandit Rider then???

4) I would like to propose the following idea also: a percentage rule might be implemented for all criminal units under your control to go barbarian... Independent criminal... The more promotions the criminal has the more is the chance he will leave you and start roaring for himself. This might be really interesting because you might face your riders coming home to pillage you on Pangaea maps

Another point might be the political stability of the players' civ to be able to mantain the bandits under control: spy buildings give you more control, when any revolution or anarchy (when you change civics or when an enemy spy made you change your civics). Just imagine your neighbor having prepared a load of bandits to visit you, when you send just one spy to make him change his civics... And here we go - his lands are full of roaring barbarian-type bandits!!!

Obviously, nobody should really benefit by building bandits.. just like it was implemented in Sins of the Solar Empire, when the bandits were just serving the power that was paying more... And this way sooner or later you were facing to fight the overpowered bandits you grew... Just like we saw it on TV, you know what I am talking about... Afghanistan...

Probably the player wont be able to build bandits... Just like we use the Gather Intel button, you might implement a button that makes the spy spend, for example, 100 money and pass much time in the enemies' tile, this way risking his own life, benefitting from the tile's crime level... And later you receive a Footpad o Rider in that tile...

For modern ages there might be Guerrilla or Terrorist unit.... The top of the criminal units' line.

What do you think?

 

[Soulmate]

Should I believe my own eyes, is it rly +11 exp ?!

 

[Daedwartin]

Should I believe my own eyes, is it rly +11 exp ?!

Well, if I'm not mistaken, yes. However, pay attention to something: +1 cost per military unit. that means hundreds of per turn if you need to make a massive military.

 

[Ag0range]

Well, I am playing at Prince difficulty, managed to have 30 (now 34 with a war) cities, I am having positive balance of 6000-7000 coins per turn, and totally 1 200 000 coins, I have Mercenaries civics and I just dont understand why should I have such a load of money..... Probably it might be rebalanced later....

 

[Monster2821]

1 200 000 million?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Well, I am playing at Prince difficulty, managed to have 30 (now 34 with a war) cities, I am having positive balance of 6000-7000 coins per turn, and totally 1 200 000 coins, I have Mercenaries civics and I just dont understand why should I have such a load of money..... Probably it might be rebalanced later....

It's not your Military Civics giving the gold.

What are your other Civics and how many Open Border trade agreements?

And what are your Leader Traits? Is Financial one of them?

Lots of reasons to have 6000 gold/turn Especially if you've reached Ren Era or above.

Is your Research slider set below 50%? Are you using the Culture or ESP sliders at all?

How many Golden Ages? How many Wonders Built? Could go On and On....

You've just not provided enough detail to see if it's a bug or not.

How about a screen shot of your Finance Screen and main screen.

JosEPh

 

[DRJ]

What we don't need is people complaining how easy the game is for them on pus.sy difficulties like prince.

What we do need is a money decay algorithm that gets more effective the more money there is - scaled per era.

The base effects could set in above 1000 gold in prehistoric, above 5000 gold in ancient, above 15000 in medieval, ... etc.

The algorithm would also take in acount how much combined gold is in the treasuries of all players taking part, meaning if AI had the same huge amounts of gold like you the decay effect on each one might be different as well (larger or smaller needs to be discussed).

I don't mean inflation by the way, I mean decay when having excessively much more in terms of a base value per era.

This way it could be scaled pretty good once and for all.

Having a lot of money would still be possible, for rush-buy-shopping sprees, technology-shopping sprees etc. But you should have spent the amassed gold at the end of the turn or it would vanish quite soon (in opposition to the inflation we have now - which sets in far too slow [but does hurt on higher difficulties if your economy doesn't grow enough to compensate]).

So some sort of a "financial transaction tax" for C2C - or more precisely - "financial domination era-tax" apart of inflation could be key.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@DRJ

In many games I have played I have had highs and lows when it comes to money. I don't think we need all that. Wars, events, bad luck, etc can all lead to your saved up nest egg being used up fast. There are already tons of ways in the mod you loose money. I don't think we need something that arbitrary to get rid of your money.

 

[DRJ]

Well I can totally relate to what you say. This is why the "era-and-totalwealth-related-money-decay-algorithm" could be a game option.

Sort of a secondary difficulty level.

Because as I see it, the problem exists mainly for people playing on the lower difficulties.

Maybe they don't want the AI to have all the boni which it would receive if they played on the higher difficulties but they want the money to be scaled anyway - the suggestion could be a solution for that.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I play on Noble mostly , so that I can test everything. There are eras where there is to much money and eras where science bounds along at a new tech every 4 turns on snail! This means that there is still some balancing needed. At one stage the AI gave me a run for the techs even getting ahead, but the latest versions they are back to being an era or two behind me by the Ancient era.

 

[SargontheGreat2]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=497337 Maybe some help in the pedia

 

[strategyonly]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=497337 Maybe some help in the pedia

I believe it would take alot more python coding from DH to get it into C2C, because we use Sevo-pedia in BUG format.

 

[DRJ]

Yeah! There are a lot of cool things that would be nice to have implemented. One special thing that caught my eye was the "resource relocation" option.

We do have the great farmer for later eras but the nomadic and herding aspect of cattle in earlier periods could be simulated very well with the dynamics described.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12493701&postcount=8

One could imagine that a cattle/deir/horse/sheep etc, moved to a new location by a worker unit could have better yields over some time (before it maybe would decay to a certain base value).

While you wouldn't have to relocate them all the time it could be benefitial to do so, for example if a new tile is inside your borders with fresh green grass or a river bed change (yeah this would be nice too^^) and the water is flowing elsewhere.
What I also liked to see would be to not only move resources like cattle but also the improvements like pasture (nomads hat all the stuff to herd their with them).

Last, but not least I wished platyping would start modding directly for C2C^^

, don't be late this year, you hear me?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=497337 Maybe some help in the pedia

It depends on which bit you want.

Pedia - Some of the pedia stuff is done in C2C by splitting into a number of pages eg Wonders and resources. Also since we use Sevopedia the contents may give a list box of things (buildings) rather than a full page list.

Tech tree -we already have the colour thing.

Enhanced GP - we are discussing in Advanced Great People and elsewhere

Yeah! There are a lot of cool things that would be nice to have implemented. One special thing that caught my eye was the "resource relocation" option.

We do have the great farmer for later eras but the nomadic and herding aspect of cattle in earlier periods could be simulated very well with the dynamics described.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=12493701&postcount=8

One could imagine that a cattle/deir/horse/sheep etc, moved to a new location by a worker unit could have better yields over some time.

While you wouldn't have to relocate them all the time it could be beneficial to do so, for example if a new tile is inside your borders with fresh green grass or a river bed change (yeah this would be nice too^^) and the water is flowing elsewhere.
What I also liked to see would be to not only move resources like cattle but also the improvements like pasture (nomads hat all the stuff to herd their with them).

Last, but not least I wished platyping would start modding directly for C2C^^

, don't be late this year, you hear me?

I was thinking that the animal (subdued or tamed) would set up a new herd/flock rather than a worker do it. Platyping's method would be fine for that.

 

[DRJ]

Well, we could have a new "nomad" worker unit, maybe a "herder"?
Or hunter/tracker/scouts could relocate herds?

What do you think, would improvements be "collectable" and "releaseable" as well?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If we were going the whole nomadic start so that the starting eras were longer then the idea of collecting and breading for improved whatever would come into play. Currently I think the idea is OP just like the Great Farmer.