Maybe there IS a point where you need to start separating things out like this.
I understand what you're saying. They aren't buildings in any more of a sense than a crime is a building really. But the city must put production into it so as to reflect the cost of creating these things. They wouldn't be an equipment because a unit wouldn't use them. Not with the current structure anyhow. But an unusual amount of thought and production and time went into creating these things in the Dark Ages, and this is one way to express it. I wanted the city to be taxed the production to produce them and each one cumulatively adds more and more unhappiness and unhealth and disease and at some point it can really be something you've over-invested into and you end up paying a dear price for it. This plays into the disease afflictions I'm about to develop. So yeah, it could've stopped there, but I wanted to, as an educational point, touch on the depth to which leaders had invested into this stuff during the Medieval era. If they weren't making great technological strides, why? What WERE they focused on? And here it is, new ways to establish control and power over the people and finding ways to get an edge over the multitudes of enemy states. This is intended to color the era for what it was and give us a new building dynamic - accessories that can create a huge amount of cumulative espionage and anti-crime (which is really showing here the gradual moves towards preparing to make negative crime = oppression, an almost equally bad thing as crime itself) but at an increasingly untenable cost.
Which is why they are a module that you can turn off. Then you don't get "bothered" by them at all.
I suppose I should probably make these modular to match.
I don't turn them off, I just Do Not use them in game for my empire. And if I find an AI that does, it gives me impetus to conquer them. To wipe the "blight" from the land. Which is the same view I will take over the Torture Techs.
It would be a good idea to include such a ban. Agreed. We do have slavery bans though. And perhaps in the long run it would be more accurate to make the ban = the obsoletion point rather than there being an absolute point of obsoletion as there currently is, at the Emancipation tech.
I feel that would get a little too intertwined with the trait system but perhaps at some point eventually there should be some connections between the two.
That's really how I would invite anyone to react to it. How can a villain be villainized without being given the capacity to stand out as one?
I felt it was enough here. At least for Medieval. Water torture, as we all know, was invented long before and has been used as recently as the last decade, by our own forces. The goal is to be as tasteful as possible while not ignoring these things existed.
Perhaps not. And I must say I can see cause for their inclusion, although I think we'd be getting to the level of really needing to optionalize or modularize or something to isolate it from the main. And I can see good arguments to do the same for these as well, as well as harems, brothels and many crimes. This subject is making it obvious that we should very soon start working to create another option to isolate these more 'adult', as Praetyre put it, subjects. I can understand why anyone would not want them in their game.
Yes and no... it was for both. You'll notice some deviation in the stats to reflect a concept of application differences. It did lean more towards enemies of state or church and not as often about high profile criminals, which tended to get much more public displays, which would be more appropriate in fleshing out the development of the Executions tech. Believe me though, in this era, the most gruesome tortures/executions were the ones reserved for all to see so as to make a truly horrific point to the public about the 'wages of sin'.
Just curious, is there something about it not being done behind closed dungeon doors that makes it somehow more acceptable for the game to include?
Yeah, my latest fixes must've taken care of it. I noticed the problem in our MP game and tried to fix it and you must've been going on memory. Whew... thanks for checking!
bonuses for dungeons. More interesting to me would be to give bonuses (of both and to various mechanics associated with POWs) to certain civics. Granted, I think they already get this, and said bonuses go far beyond just interrogation, in the general field of terror doctrine (ala Reinhard Heydrich or, to take a fictional example, the Doctrine of Grand Moff Tarkin), police states and mass surveillance.
Also much more effort than I intend to give this side of the game at the moment. But when I do, and I've considered similar things, as I've discussed with you at least for a trial mechanism, I figure such 'buildings' would play a role in giving the player more result options.
I know that some were developed earlier, but I didn't feel like getting too hung up on details. BTW, what kind of dating are you saying this would mean it should have?
There are many buildings we have that are not buildings at all but are currently the best way to express the concept. Take Natural Wonders you construct in the beginning of the game, or Community Discussions (I suppose you could make a place for this but that's not really what the production cost is meaning in this case) or Tournaments, which are more of an event. These items are all prototypical... they aren't made by a specified manufacturer of such things. This makes them unusually expensive BUT unnecessary to be made more often than once. As a result, it really does fit as a building. You wouldn't have Toothbrushes for a bathroom unless the city only needed one bathroom and then, sure you could get into the minutae of ways to improve the bathroom. Castles already work in this modular method of improvement and this is just a further extension. Furthermore, I didn't put much thought into the construction costs yet because those base charts are about to be redesigned, but I figured I'd make them pretty cheap to reflect how few driving forces of industry in the city would need to be dedicated to creating them and how relatively quickly they come together in relation to an actual constructed building.Honestly, my objection to torture buildings isn't squeamishness (no offense intended to anyone else here) but the fact that, as one person put it, they are more like equipment for a dungeon than they are buildings unto themselves. While I am fully in support of attempts (likely by Tbrd) to incorporate POWs into C2C, we already have
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