Caveman 2 Cosmos

[Eruditio]

We just got some amazing publicity here folks! Give it a read! It's glorious!

Thanks Ash!

Odin Gaming article on Caveman2Cosmos!

Copying addres of this ling yelds this: "http://Odin Gaming article on Caveman2Cosmos"
GJ

Edit: Found it! https://odingaming.com/2017/05/16/civilization-4-caveman-2-cosmos/

BTW this was awesome read.

Thanks again Thunderbrd for the interview! And of course to StrategyOnly for the inception of this supermod. Apologies that I didn't get a chance to feature all of the amazing developers in the post. I really wanted to but it was already well over 6000 words as it was. Thunderbrd really was very good in his responses at drawing attention to you all and where you've contributed to the project.

Let me also say how personally appreciative I am of all your efforts. You've created a great thing here, and you've done it for free, which is beyond impressive to me.

If any of you want to reach out with anything you want to discuss about C2C, I'm all ears. I'd be more than willing to write an ongoing series of posts about the history and development of C2C from individual perspectives and what the project means to you, technically and otherwise. Thunderbrd has already given me a lot of context, so if anyone wants me to feature a deep-dive on some feature or other, let me know! This way, you contributors will get the attention I think you deserve.

Great Prophets
As for the Great Prophets - I'd forgotten to update the relevant section of the post after our discussion. It's been updated to reflect my understanding now. Please let me know if my reasoning breaks down and I'll update the post again accordingly:

1. Civ A is the first to discover Religion Tech X.
2. Civ A gains Great Prophet L able to found Religion X.
3. Civ A instead holds onto Great Prophet L because he wants to use it for Religion Y.
4. Civ B discovers Religion Tech X but doesn't get a Great Prophet because he's not the first.
5. Civ A is the first to discover Religion Tech Y.
6. Civ A gains Great Prophet M able to found both Religion X and Y (at this stage). Great Prophet L is also now able to found both Religion X and Y.
7. Civ A uses Great Prophet M to found Religion Y.
8. Civ A uses Great Prophet L to build Religion Y's wonder.

I understand that any Great Prophet can be used to found a religion if the corresponding tech has been discovered and the religion is yet to be founded. But I also gathered from what you told me that the AI have preferences to found religions. While it might be the case that all religions get founded in the long-run, some early religions might not surface til much later in the game because the AI are holding onto their Great Prophets.

Is this accurate?

 

[Toffer90]

Is this accurate?

Looks like it is.
addition:
9. Civ A or B may decide to found Religion X when it gets its next great prophet.

P.S.
The scenario plays out pretty much the same with divine prophets off as well; except that one have no control over which city becomes the holy city then.
Also, some religions will get founded earlier (in the cases matching your scenario) because Civ A would have founded Rel. X at step 1-2 and Rel. Y at step 5.

Limited religions is nice as it spreads the religions across the different civs ensuring a more balanced game. No one civ can found more than 1 religion.
If it ends up not having any holy cities, then it can found another one (Not really sure about this, if it can't, then I would consider it a bug).

 

[Thunderbrd]

Great Prophets
As for the Great Prophets - I'd forgotten to update the relevant section of the post after our discussion. It's been updated to reflect my understanding now. Please let me know if my reasoning breaks down and I'll update the post again accordingly:

1. Civ A is the first to discover Religion Tech X.
2. Civ A gains Great Prophet L able to found Religion X.
3. Civ A instead holds onto Great Prophet L because he wants to use it for Religion Y.
4. Civ B discovers Religion Tech X but doesn't get a Great Prophet because he's not the first.
5. Civ A is the first to discover Religion Tech Y.
6. Civ A gains Great Prophet M able to found both Religion X and Y (at this stage). Great Prophet L is also now able to found both Religion X and Y.
7. Civ A uses Great Prophet M to found Religion Y.
8. Civ A uses Great Prophet L to build Religion Y's wonder.

I understand that any Great Prophet can be used to found a religion if the corresponding tech has been discovered and the religion is yet to be founded. But I also gathered from what you told me that the AI have preferences to found religions. While it might be the case that all religions get founded in the long-run, some early religions might not surface til much later in the game because the AI are holding onto their Great Prophets.

Is this accurate?

It is. But also consider:
1) Prophets aren't ONLY birthed by being the first to reach a religion tech. In the early stage of the game, they are one of the most commonly birthed great people... to the extent I often wonder if Divine Prophets even needs to give a prophet to the first to reach the religious tech.

and

2) Not all religions in C2C are equal. In fact, you may well feel the first few are not very valuable at all in comparison to later ones. You may quite happily let another player get a religion you were first to get to the tech so as to get the prophet from because you want that player to be distracted by constructing the buildings that religion offers.

3) Some players have stated a strong opinion that the Prophet's ability to give a free tech is much more valuable than taking the religion. The AI doesn't really give this much consideration unless by the time it has an extra prophet beyond what it may need for other plans, if other religions aren't available any more it may use the excess prophet for a tech. Maybe. Prophets are also fairly decent city boosts if added to the city itself. Long-term, they offer a lot of extra production and research, perhaps the two most core benefits players are racing to obtain the most of.


Thanks is actually to YOU Ash! That's some great publicity you gave us... and that, too, for free! I would urge Dancing Hoskuld and Hydro to discuss some of your previous projects in greater depth with you in particular. Perhaps SO would like to discuss the Heroes project in greater depth.

Anyhow, loved the article! Thanks again!

 

[billybgame]

Just got Civ 4 Complete for $7.50 on GoG.....figure plenty worth it, not having to go through the painstaking installation process for the new laptop. Been playing Civ 5 on Steam, but 4 will always be my fave.

So, anyhow, came to get Buffy, and saw this mod article listed on the home page. Seemed interesting, so downloaded, after much reading. 7 Zipped it into the GoG Galaxy/Games/Civ 4 Complete/BTS/Mods folder. Was not sure if that was correct, but lo and behold, there it was in Mods, when I started the game.

HOWEVER, I have C2C37 loaded, but nothing is different, from vanilla BTS. So, quite confused, given I read of a multitude of changes. Is there more to do, to get the mod to work, or did I do something wrong? Is there a full instruction somewhere?

Edit: Guess I should ponder more sometimes before I post.....realized there was a C2C folder INSIDE the C2C folder, with all the files....so that must have caused it to not load.....copied it all back out to the main folder and presto, seems to be working!

 

[JosEPh_II]

Just got Civ 4 Complete for $7.50 on GoG.....figure plenty worth it, not having to go through the painstaking installation process for the new laptop. Been playing Civ 5 on Steam, but 4 will always be my fave.

So, anyhow, came to get Buffy, and saw this mod article listed on the home page. Seemed interesting, so downloaded, after much reading. 7 Zipped it into the GoG Galaxy/Games/Civ 4 Complete/BTS/Mods folder. Was not sure if that was correct, but lo and behold, there it was in Mods, when I started the game.

HOWEVER, I have C2C37 loaded, but nothing is different, from vanilla BTS. So, quite confused, given I read of a multitude of changes. Is there more to do, to get the mod to work, or did I do something wrong? Is there a full instruction somewhere?

<nvrmnd> seems you found your problem.

And Welcome to C2C!

 

[billybgame]

Thanks....however, the main mod page lists this problem #1 and it's my problem....is there some fix out there by now that doesn't require manual registry editing? Never done that in my life....seems a bit extreme to get a mod to work. I have no buttons and nothing on screen except the world and my units.

1.) I have Civ4 Complete and/or Vista and I've installed your modpack but when I play a game I can see the map & my units but not any interface or command buttons. Why is this & how do you fix it?
This is a problem that can happen with modpacks that include the BUG Mod and Civ4 Complete installations. Basically, Civ4 Complete places its registry entries in a different location than the normal Civ4 installation & thus causes problems with the BUG Mod.

The fix involves editing your Windows registry as described in the following link (Post#12):

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=6367044&highlight=complete#post6367044

 

[Toffer90]

It's a common problem, but I've never heard about a registry fix for it before.
What usually fixes it:
Make sure the mod folder is named "Civ 4 Complete\BTS\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos", anything else causes problems.
First time you start the mod, start a "play now" game once before you start using "custom game".

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Make sure the mod folder is named "Civ 4 Complete\BTS\Mods\Caveman2Cosmos", anything else causes problems.

The main problem it causes is that the modders wont be able to help you fix some of the more difficult problems/bugs that may arise in your game.

Since C2C uses BUG there is no need to hard code the path anywhere. BUG has a function in Python that finds the mod path for you. I keep meaning to point that out to the BUG team as there is still one place they hard code one of the files when they don't need to.

 

[billybgame]

OK...thanks for the reply...however this is a Good Old Game folder.....well GOG Galaxy/Games/Civ 4 Complete/Civ 4/BTS/Mods/Caveman2Cosmos_37...........to be exact.

I tried to change it to just Caveman2Cosmos, but it won't let me, with the old it's open in another program stuff.

Edit:....just tried Play Now!.....same no button issues

Edit again.....hmm....figured out it was because I had the PDF ReadMe open...closed that...changed the name to Caveman2Cosmos.....and voila!...it seems to work....though confused as all get out, naturally Learning curve is pretty steep.

 

[Eruditio]

It is. But also consider:
1) Prophets aren't ONLY birthed by being the first to reach a religion tech. In the early stage of the game, they are one of the most commonly birthed great people... to the extent I often wonder if Divine Prophets even needs to give a prophet to the first to reach the religious tech.

and

2) Not all religions in C2C are equal. In fact, you may well feel the first few are not very valuable at all in comparison to later ones. You may quite happily let another player get a religion you were first to get to the tech so as to get the prophet from because you want that player to be distracted by constructing the buildings that religion offers.

3) Some players have stated a strong opinion that the Prophet's ability to give a free tech is much more valuable than taking the religion. The AI doesn't really give this much consideration unless by the time it has an extra prophet beyond what it may need for other plans, if other religions aren't available any more it may use the excess prophet for a tech. Maybe. Prophets are also fairly decent city boosts if added to the city itself. Long-term, they offer a lot of extra production and research, perhaps the two most core benefits players are racing to obtain the most of.

Thanks for the help in understanding the Divine Prophets option, guys. I've removed the corresponding comment from the blog post; I don't think my observations were really relevant knowing what I know now.

Thanks is actually to YOU Ash! That's some great publicity you gave us... and that, too, for free! I would urge Dancing Hoskuld and Hydro to discuss some of your previous projects in greater depth with you in particular. Perhaps SO would like to discuss the Heroes project in greater depth.

Anyhow, loved the article! Thanks again!

Looking forward to hearing from more of you all in the near future; C2C is a fascinating project!

 

[rwglaub]

After playing further, how about limiting the number of assassins or the like that a country can produce? I think you went a little overboard and need to tone things down a bit.

 

[Thunderbrd]

After playing further, how about limiting the number of assassins or the like that a country can produce? I think you went a little overboard and need to tone things down a bit.

Are you on v37 stock or SVN? Since v37 stock, we have pulled back on the ease of criminal spawning tremendously. Plus, if you play with national units limited, Assassins and other criminals ARE limited units.

 

[JoIsChuck]

Hopefully someone will see this but anyone know how to fix this or if it's now a part of the mod...I played this mod a few years ago and the max turns you could make a game was in the neighborhood of 14,000, now it's only 8,000, what's up?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Hopefully someone will see this but anyone know how to fix this or if it's now a part of the mod...I played this mod a few years ago and the max turns you could make a game was in the neighborhood of 14,000, now it's only 8,000, what's up?

All Game speeds have been re-adjusted for better scaling and balancing. 14K turns was terribly distorting all game mechanics especially as new projects wer being added into the mod. No one was ever reaching even half the allotted 14K turns either. 8.2K turns is more than sufficient for a very very long game. Of which you will never see turn 8K.

 

[JoIsChuck]

All Game speeds have been re-adjusted for better scaling and balancing. 14K turns was terribly distorting all game mechanics especially as new projects wer being added into the mod. No one was ever reaching even half the allotted 14K turns either. 8.2K turns is more than sufficient for a very very long game. Of which you will never see turn 8K.

I think that's a shame, the first game I played on C2C before my laptop was stolen I made it to turn 4K or so.

Would it be at all possible for me to change it back to how it was before they changed it?

Thanks for answering my question by the way!

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think that's a shame, the first game I played on C2C before my laptop was stolen I made it to turn 4K or so.

Would it be at all possible for me to change it back to how it was before they changed it?

Thanks for answering my question by the way!

It's really just a number. You can play past that point. All that number REALLY represents is the turn at which the time victory condition determines a winner. If you play without the time victory condition, it's meaningless. One thing you can also rest assured of is that the number of turns probably won't even make it to the latest stages of the game. Furthermore, the latest stages of the game are so out of balance and underdeveloped, the game wouldn't be all that fun then anyhow and usually, games are determined by other victory conditions long before that point. Even a Master victory condition may leave you wishing for an earlier Time end point the way the current late game structure is.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I think that's a shame, the first game I played on C2C before my laptop was stolen I made it to turn 4K or so.

by T-brd!

 

[rwglaub]

I was using the latest SVN that was posted but with unlimited national units. From now on I'll play with limited.

 

[New_York]

are there any hd terrain mods out yes for c2c ?

 

[Playsoneasy]

Quick question - where is the BUG Options screen? I can't seem to find it, even though the mod seems to be working fine.

EDIT - Nevermind, I've found it now.