Caveman 2 Cosmos

[E.M. Lurker]

This is probably the cause:
The unitInfo tag <bPrereqBonuses>1</bPrereqBonuses> that is used for all workboats require the water area the city is connected to to have bonuses in them.

    if (kUnit.isPrereqBonuses())
    {
        if (kUnit.getDomainType() == DOMAIN_SEA)
        {
            bool bValid = false;

            for (iI = 0; iI < NUM_DIRECTION_TYPES; ++iI)
            {
                CvPlot* pLoopPlot = plotDirection(getX_INLINE(), getY_INLINE(), ((DirectionTypes)iI));

                if (pLoopPlot != NULL)
                {
                    if (pLoopPlot->isWater())
                    {
                        if (pLoopPlot->area()->getNumTotalBonuses() > 0)
                        {
                            bValid = true;
                            break;
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
            if (!bValid)
            {
                return false;
            }
        }

So a lake with no bonuses will not enable a city to train workboats.

Do things like coral and seagrass count for this?

 

[Toffer90]

Do things like coral and seagrass count for this?

No, those are features, not bonuses.

See if the latest SVN update fixes this.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Not sure where to report this since the Game Speeds thread has closed.

SVN 9972 - on noble/huge/snail it is to build a building is taking 1.5 times the number of turns it takes to research the next tech. I have reached the 4th column of techs. Given how many buildings there are in the prehistoric era this is not playable. Unit cost is about the same as a tech cost in turns so that is not quite as bad.

 

[Toffer90]

SVN 9972 - on noble/huge/snail it is to build a building is taking 1.5 times the number of turns it takes to research the next tech. I have reached the 4th column of techs. Given how many buildings there are in the prehistoric era this is not playable. Unit cost is about the same as a tech cost in turns so that is not quite as bad.

Sound bad, I haven't tested the newest SVN update, so I can't comment how I feel about the current state.

I think TB likes it to be that way. That it should be almost impossible to build all buildings and that your building choices really matters more because of it or some such.

 

[Thunderbrd]

1.5 is too much. Something might have changed since I was testing. I was getting buildings at 3/4 the cost of the techs in turns. I'll have to see what I get on your settings.

@Dancing Hoskuld: You aren't on the Upscaled Costs option are you? That's exactly what the option is supposed to do is make buildings and units impossible to keep up on at all.

 

[Thunderbrd]

OK, update and try again DH. In the early prehistoric you do get to a point where it seems pretty expensive for buildings so that's natural and just a quirk of the production cost arc at that point. It should get a lot better/smoother moving forward from there. I'm not sure what the factor is but a few things were tweaked since my last test. But between you and me and my wife's feedback, as well as keeping an idea of where we are when I'm hearing other sources of feedback, I've changed a number of things now and it should be a lot closer to what was intended.

 

[JosEPh_II]

I forgot how to get rid of these event error msgs. Every turn on everything that happened that turn.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I forgot how to get rid of these event error msgs. Every turn on everything that happened that turn.

Run as administrator so the log can be written

 

[raxo2222]

Globals:
Building production global was reduced to 90.
SM Units have modifier of 70 and projects have modifier of 100.
Techs have modifier of 320.

Handicaps:
For player construction and research costs are now 100 - this means Nightmare game is as fast as Noble for Player.
AI will build/research/create at different speeds.
Now game pacing doesn't depend on handicap anymore - only difficulty.
AI trains, researches and builds at different rates.

Map size:
Technically larger maps are at advantage, as bigger maps have slower research.
Steps go from 85 from Duel to 120 from Gigantic by 5 units.

Eras
Research costs go from 1 to 1.65 in 0.5 steps.
Same with construction costs.
This means for prehistoric construction cost modifier was raised from 0.7 to 1 - that is buildings are 43% more expensive in prehistoric era.
Old - New:
0,7- 1; 43% more expensive
0,8 - 1.05; 31% more expensive
0,9- 1,1; 22% more expensive
1- 1,15; 15% more expensive
1,1 - 1,2; 9% more expensive
1,2 - 1,25; 4% more expensive
1,3 - 1,3; For Modern era costs are unchanged
1,4 - 1,35; 4% less expensive
1,5 -1,4; 7% less expensive
1,6 -1,45; 10% less expensive
1,7- 1,5; 13% less expensive
1,8 - 1,55; 16% less expensive
1,9 - 1,6; 19% less expensive
2 - 1,65 - Future Era, can't be actually reached even if you research future tech.

Game Speeds:
All modifiers are exactly proportional to game turns.
Upscaled Costs will increase train/construct/improvement cost by 40%.

I suggest we lower global construction cost modifier to counter 40% increase of building cost in prehistoric era.
100/1.43 = 70
This way upscaled costs option would make sense.
That is if we don't want to touch entire era arc.
Then if players consistently run out of things to build on Normal/Noble/Standard then globals could be adjusted.

Raw cost of Saddler/Animal Riding: 98/52
Production cost depend only on game speed, era and global modifier. Not including Upscaled Costs
Technology cost depend on game speed, era, map size and global modifier. Not including Beeline Stings.
Saddler and its unlocking tech costs on V38 release:
Settler/Duel/Normal: 32/5
Noble/Standard/Normal: 40/52
Nightmare/Gigantic/Eternity: 496/3380

Saddler and its unlocking tech costs on SVN 9974:
Settler/Duel/Normal: 88/141
Noble/Standard/Normal: 88/166
Nightmare/Gigantic/Eternity: 880/1996
Normal has 2x more turns and Eternity has ~2.4x more turns though.
Reducing map size factor for research cost and moving production/research handicaps had biggest impact here.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Run as administrator so the log can be written

I am always logged in as Administrator.

Is there a setting in the CIV4 .ini or Config file?

 

[flabbert]

I am always logged in as Administrator.

Is there a setting in the CIV4 .ini or Config file?

logged in as admin user and running as admin user is no longer the same thing, particularly in Windows 10.

To be a true administrator you have to disable UAC, or actually rightclick on the shortcut and click "run as administrator"

 

[JosEPh_II]

logged in as admin user and running as admin user is no longer the same thing, particularly in Windows 10.

To be a true administrator you have to disable UAC, or actually rightclick on the shortcut and click "run as administrator"

All done flabbert all done. But as we all know Win 10 likes to change settings on it's own. Soon I think I will revert back to Win 7. Microsoft is an ever reaching octopus and it's pushing it's tentacles ever deeper into controlling.

 

[raxo2222]

All done flabbert all done. But as we all know Win 10 likes to change settings on it's own. Soon I think I will revert back to Win 7. Microsoft is an ever reaching octopus and it's pushing it's tentacles ever deeper into controlling.

Why anyone would upgrade to windows 10 if everything works fine on windows 7 at first place?

Or did windows 7 updated itself to windows 10?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I suggest we lower global construction cost modifier to counter 40% increase of building cost in prehistoric era.
100/1.43 = 70
This way upscaled costs option would make sense.
That is if we don't want to touch entire era arc.
Then if players consistently run out of things to build on Normal/Noble/Standard then globals could be adjusted.

I'm on a wait and see at the moment to determine if it needs to be reduced further. So far as I've experienced, if the first buildings are 2/3 to 3/4 the cost of the the first techs in time, everything else tends to fall into place. You're supposed to have a little bit of a challenge in keeping up with buildings but you're simply not supposed to be able to in upscaled. On neither setting should you ever find your cities without anything to build so they are set to research UNLESS you're very fortunate with your production plots.

 

[Toffer90]

Maybe we should add a "Downscaled Production time" game option, then some can choose Downscaled, others can choose Upscaled, and the rest can play with neither one.

 

[raxo2222]

Maybe we should add a "Downscaled Production time" game option, then some can choose Downscaled, others can choose Upscaled, and the rest can play with neither one.

Good idea
Due to how balance was affected certain paces may play better with downscaled costs and others - with upscaled costs.
Although what masochist plays with upscaled costs?
If upscaled costs are 40% expensive buildings and units, then downscaled costs would be 30% cheaper buildings and units to keep them equal.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Maybe we should add a "Downscaled Production time" game option, then some can choose Downscaled, others can choose Upscaled, and the rest can play with neither one.

I have often thought that would be good. We do have the ability to enforce one overrides the other if both are turned on to eliminate the obvious incompatibility.

 

[hau]

Just one question - Is the combat AI fixed in the latest SVN?

 

[raxo2222]

Just one question - Is the combat AI fixed in the latest SVN?

There were massive changes so I guess you can test it now.

 

[hau]

Thanks. I'll report about my results here