Caveman2Cosmos Let's Play - AstralPhaser/12padams

[Koshling]

@12padams

You should totally found on the river since it gives you freshwater AND more types of buildings that require a river. Also rivers help reduce water pollution.

Also if you want to see those buttons that don't click go to the resource section in the civpeida. It should have them under the same name. Such as "Mapuche".

Considerations for founding cities, in approximate order of importance (personal opinions):

1. Securing key resources
2. area it's culture will cover after a couple of border expansions provides good production and/or food values
3. On a river
4. Coastal
5. Strategic value in blocking off other civs once your culture expands a little
6. On a hill

Item (5) might be promoted up a step or two depending on how bottlenecked the geography is, especially with mountain passes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Koshling

I would also add on the "choke points" if there is only one opening in a mountain pass or connecting 2 ocean (like Panama) then cities on those tiles are a good investment. Heck even getting access to an ocean on the other side of a landmass can make the difference.

Key resources are a toss-up for me since you can always claim them with fix borders and/or forts.

I find ocean/river cities to be the best cities even when there is poor terrain and/or resource nearby. If I had the choice I would found every city at the mouth of a river. but maps never work out like that in practice.

 

[wolfensoul9]

You're starting to play pretty poorly. You are in last place. First of all, I agree with settling on the tile that the tribe is on, the one with the river and such. Secondly, you have still yet to build any scouts, as I continually advise. The island to the east is a haven of animals. For god's sake, build another raft, put a scout on it, send it to animal island, plop the scout on a forested hill, fortify, and let the rewards throw themselves to you. Seriously. Do it. You are in last place, and this will be a huge boon. You have all those animals do yourself. Get them. Build two scouts, in fact.

You have hurt your empire greatly with your continued neglect of scouts and animals. Fix this immediately.

Your other biggest problem is your wasting valuable hammers on useless buildings. Stop building buildings that give you happiness and culture. The priority order is, in my opinion, hammers, science, food, units, money, and then other stuff. You keep wasting dozens of turns building crap. Watching you queue up four things you had no immediate use for at the end of the episode was painful. Stop building them. You need more gatherers. I'd recommend four. You've lost hundreds and hundreds of science by now through your continued neglect of improving your tobacco resources. They should have been improved hundreds of turns ago. Fix this immediately.

I'll say it again. Only build happiness buildings if you are in danger of your city being unhappy. Otherwise, ignore them.

Get started on another tribe ASAP. Start settling as fast as your economy can stand.

Also, I can't believe I have to say this, but when you are in the civilopedia, LEFT click, not right click to see what things need.

Also, to clear up all the unbuildable buildings, I'd recommend you go into the BUG screen and check the "Hide unbuildable buildings" option. This will make it MUCH easier for you to figure out what to build.

In summation, stop building buildings you don't need, meaning happiness buildings, and defensive ones. Erase that entire queue you have lined up. Replace it with rafts and scouts, send them over to animal island. Use one to explore. Use the others to fortify on forested hills. Leave them there, and watch the goodies come rolling in. Build gatherers. Lots. IMPROVE YOUR TERRITORY. Build more tribes. Expand asuch as your economy can take.

And again, rush like a madman to sedentary lifestyle.

 

[God-Emperor]

My suggestions:

1) settle where you are
2) stop building the buildings you don't need quite yet and build at least 1 scout, probably 2, and maybe even 3 plus a raft to take one over to the other continent
3) build 2 atl-atls and another tribe, then take all 3 and go settle 2 south of the stone, between the horses and bison (if you can pull it off, this would be a good place to build the Moai Statues world wonder)- there are other possible locations, but I like this one
4) build about 2 gatherers in your capital and send them off to help the new cities (you may want to send one of those stone axemen back to use as an escort)
5) now build a few buildings in your capital

By the way, I noticed that you never once (as far as I can recall) even looked at what the mask carver hut building gives you - it is like you are magically driven to never put your cursor over the button for that building. It is probably the 2nd building you should build now (well in step 5 of my suggestions above), since you didn't already build it, the first being the tidepools (which you should have built long ago - look how much food it gives). Note that those may change depending on what techs you get (you might unlock something better, or possibly obsolete the tidepools - although that probably won't happen any time soon). After that I'd go for the dog breeder and make a dog. Dogs can see invisible units, which some of the other civs may be building, although they have not yet bothered you - but they might, since you seem intent on declaring war on everyone...

Speaking of which, you should check what the leaders you are at war with want for peace (check the "what will it take to end this war" (or something like that) option in the trade screen - you don't have to accept their suggestion). If they insist on you giving them contact with another civ (and nothing else) as payment to end the war then you should probably do it (unless maybe you plan to build up an army and go attack the Egyptians sometime soon, which seems unlikely). Every civ they know is one more civ for them to maybe spend espionage points on instead of you, if nothing else.

In your new cities, you should initially prioritize production. There is a wood related building, the lumber camp, that gives +1 production which I do first if it is available (it probably requires a forest in the city vicinity, so it is not always available). Then the rock gatherer for another +1 production and it enables the most important ancient building (which should be built next): the stone tool maker. After that I normally build the native culture building (+1 culture and it is really quick). Then either more production or, usually, a couple of food producing buildings.

That is all probably more or less what I'd do in that situation.

 

[12padams]

you have still yet to build any scouts, as I continually advise.

You have yet to read my excuse, as I continually explain

Here are some quotes from this thread explaining why no scouts were built in episode 6.

Said just after I uploaded episode 4:

Yep... episode 4 but if you've got advice I wont implement it in the next episode because today I am recording 3 episodes since it is my day off.

- in other words I made episode 5 and 6 before reading any of your advice from episode 4 and 5. In episode 4 I had a scout and lost it which put me off scouts in episode 5 and 6. Back then I didn't get the concept of "fortify them on a tile and let animals attack" but now I do...

Said a little after I uploaded episode 5:

Well... I've recorded episode 6 and I didn't see any enemy canoes I just need to edit it but I don't have time until tomorrow night so next episode will be up in 23 hours and it ends with a big question...

A bunch of people commented after episode 5 was posted telling me to make a scout and I totally agreed with the decision yet I had unfortunately already recorded episode 6 so when I uploaded it after editing it it seemed like I had not followed your advice when I actually will in episode 7. I even explained that a second time upon posting episode 6:

Now just remember that I made this episode before you all commented on episode 5 so that's why I may not have followed your recent advice. I will however carry out your advice when I record episode 7 in 19 hours from now. Expect episode 7 to be uploaded in about 2-3 days.

So remember that I value all your advice and I do take it but... Episodes are usually recorded 24 hours before they at uploaded and on that one day (my day off - once per month) I recorded 3 episodes at once and could not implement all your advice since I recorded the epsiodes before you had a chance to comment.

Anyway... It was an easy mistake to make because it does give the illusion that I recorded that episode the next day since it was uploaded a day after the rest. Just make sure you read my warnings about when episodes are recorded so you don't think I don't take your advice. Infact... Right now I am going through all the recent advice, compiling it into a notepad file and then setting it out in dot points for when I begin recording my next epsiode in 3 hours from now which will be posted in 28-52 hours from now.

 

[God-Emperor]

By the way, I noticed that you never once (as far as I can recall) even looked at what the mask carver hut building gives you

Oops. I meant the woodcarver's hut (which leads to the mask carver's hut, and the totem pole).

 

[12padams]

Ok I am extremely overwhelmed with all the recent advice and may have missed some when I compiled my beggining of episode plan (usually I don't post these). If I missed anything just regive or quote the advice if it still applys after episode 7 is uploaded. Any advice given after this post won't be implemented in episode 7 because I am gunna record it now. Here's my plan:

- put music volume up temporarily and then mute and unmute it to briefly listen to the various tracks pray tear has chosen for the prehistoric era.
- mention reason for cockroach building bug (prerequisites changed after I built it)
- correct myself from how I incorrectly identified "tradable" on coast and ocean as "moveable" on coast and ocean.
- set tech research to sedentary lifestyle and explain that it is important to get the first and that horsemen will be researched later. Explain free tech benifit and caste system
-make peace with those who I am at war at.
- remove all the useless buildings from my que in the Capitol
- build 3 scouts then position them on forested hills (if possible) - explain that I should have done this a long time ago and I've lost a lot of Benifits for doing it so late. Also get some scouts and a raft to put on that other continent and explain that I have all those wild animals for myself.
- make gathers to improve the tobacco resources near my Capitol
- explain forum advice of where I should place my second city:

Koshings order of importance:
Securing key resources
area it's culture will cover after a couple of border expansions provides good production and/or food values
On a river
Coastal
Strategic value in blocking off other civs once your culture expands a little
On a hill

-settle where I am
- settle next city between bison and horses two squares below stone.
-Focus on production in new cities and stone tool maker.
- build Moai Statues in second city
- check out woodcarver's hut

 

[AIAndy]

One easily overlooked feature is the filter and sort buttons in the city screen above the list of buildable things.
They are separate for buildings and units but you can switch with the buttons on the right side of the build list.
This includes the possibility to hide unbuildable buildings/units.

 

[12padams]

Really disappointed,,, was going really well, went through all your advice and everything then the game crashed making me lose all progress in the episode. It crashed because A notification saying a trial on my computer had expired then I tried to get back into the game and I saw the cursor but nothing else... I felt so bad that it crashed! Furious and now that's delayed the next episode by up to 4 days. I am gunna hate redoing and rerecirding everything after already paying and doing that previously for a whole hour. If I seem angry in episode 7... That's why!

Edit: ok I've redone the episode now... So episode 7 is recorded yet I need to edit and upload it. I can't edit it tomorrow but I will the next day and ill upload it after editing so expect next episode up in 48 hours.

About this episode... I've now got 3 cities in total and I am making a new settler for a 4th city. I've found a good location with like 6 resources reachable around it including marble.

 

[12padams]

Warning: As of now this episode is still uploading but should be done 3 hours after I post this.

Ok here is episode 7... hopefully this covers everything it was meant to and from memory I had a few questions in this episode so if you get a chance please answer them. Also I record the next episode
in about 10 hours from now so if you have advice be sure to give it to me within 10 hours.

Episode 7: http://youtu.be/meZYIK63f8U (Will be finished uploading in 3 hours if not already up)
It's time to expand! In this episode we build our second city Sydney and get a few scouts to fortify on our own continent and the nearby continent. We discover that the "uninhabited island" is more inhabited than we initially thought and luckily this discovery allows us to make peace with the civilizations currently at war with us. On top of that we found our 3rd city Melbourne after battling with many wild animals and also prepare to found our 4th city.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Ah, once again you see the wisdom of moving your scouts one at a time. Unfortunately, alot of the space on your continent has been taken already, and with the addition of all the rival trackers and hunters, easy animals are going to be fairly difficult to obtain.

Focus on setting up scouts far away from your borders on the new continent. Putting them on forested hills, with ample space between the individual scouts is the best way to go.

Hopefully you'll get more animals this way.

I'd recommend settling the fourth city one east of where you are on that AMAZING offshoot of that continent. Settle on the forest tile where the first scout is, one east of the bamboo. The reason for this is that it will provide you with enough space to the west to put up another city on the very westernmost top of the peninsula. If you notice, putting on there would allow access to many of those far off sea resources. This is much better long term strategy than just settling on the bamboo.

The only thing that really bothers me about your game at this point is your total dearth of subdued animals. Sadly, there's not much you can do other than fight off Ragnars scouts for them on the new continent. Hopefully there will be lots to go around.

One thing you could potentially do...

Look up in the civilopedia "artic combat". It's a promotion. Find out what you have to do in order to get it. I think, but am not sure, that it requires a unit to have a single star, first. What you could do is fight off enough animals with a scout in the new continent, level him up to get artic combat, and then send him over to the wastes west of Canberra, to fight all the animals there, without fear of terrain damage. This is a good idea, not only because you will be able to explore more, but all the animals in the cold lands will be yours for the taking, as no other civs' units will be there to compete with. Just be warned that the first level of artic combat only protects from tundra damage. You need the level two version of it to negate permafrost damage.

This is obviously very long term, so don't go too out of your way for it, but if you find a scout getting promotions, seriously consider doing the above paragraph.

 

[Koshling]

Warning: As of now this episode is still uploading but should be done 3 hours after I post this.

Ok here is episode 7... hopefully this covers everything it was meant to and from memory I had a few questions in this episode so if you get a chance please answer them. Also I record the next episode
in about 10 hours from now so if you have advice be sure to give it to me within 10 hours.

Episode 7: http://youtu.be/meZYIK63f8U (Will be finished uploading in 3 hours if not already up)
It's time to expand! In this episode we build our second city Sydney and get a few scouts to fortify on our own continent and the nearby continent. We discover that the "uninhabited island" is more inhabited than we initially thought and luckily this discovery allows us to make peace with the civilizations currently at war with us. On top of that we found our 3rd city Melbourne after battling with many wild animals and also prepare to found our 4th city.

A few observations:

1. When you 'connected' your first two cities it was because both were on the same coast, and you had raft building, which enables trade along costs
2. You don't have actual trade-routes between specific cities yet, because the net effects of your current civics still don't give you any (barter helped with that but you'll need buildings and/or techs that add trade routes to actually realize them)
3. Your early city build priorities are probably slightly sub-optimal. The stone tool maker is so fantastically good during the prehistoric era, that you should beeline to it - so rock gatherer then storage pit, then stone tool maker probably. Other production buildings after that. Under some circumstances you might want to make exceptions for lumber camps, bark gatherers, and clay pits, because they are so fast to build. However, counting sticks before getting the stone tools maker is not a good trade-off
4. You can have the game auto-save every N turns (in fact I'm pretty sure it does by default every 10 or so). Can set that to every turn if you want (as protection from crashes etc.). In the INI file (this is from my INI file set to every turn):
   

   ; Specify the number of turns between autoSaves.  0 means no autosave.
   AutoSaveInterval = 1

5. The AI does (or at least should!!) understand terrain damage. So that hunter sitting still on the icy hill and dying is a bug - if you have a save game with an AI unit just sitting on bad terrain like that from turn to turn, please post it for analysis.

 

[12padams]

Focus on setting up scouts far away from your borders on the new continent. Putting them on forested hills, with ample space between the individual scouts is the best way to go.

Ok, will do! But do you recommend I get hunters instead of scouts once I can build them?

I'd recommend settling the fourth city one east of where you are on that AMAZING offshoot of that continent. Settle on the forest tile where the first scout is, one east of the bamboo.

Great idea

Look up in the civilopedia "artic combat". It's a promotion. Find out what you have to do in order to get it. I think, but am not sure, that it requires a unit to have a single star, first. What you could do is fight off enough animals with a scout in the new continent, level him up to get artic combat, and then send him over to the wastes west of Canberra, to fight all the animals there, without fear of terrain damage

Awesome I will definitely be checking that out and take advantage of it when I can

You don't have actual trade-routes between specific cities yet, because the net effects of your current civics still don't give you any (barter helped with that but you'll need buildings and/or techs that add trade routes to actually realize them)

Awesome so that trails building would do this right?

The AI does (or at least should!!) understand terrain damage. So that hunter sitting still on the icy hill and dying is a bug - if you have a save game with an AI unit just sitting on bad terrain like that from turn to turn, please post it for analysis.

Next time I see a unit on damaging terrain I will save the game just incase... I have seen this happen twice throughout my lets play so I am sure it will happen again.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Goodness, yes! If you are lucky enough to subdue an animal that let's you build the master hunter building, IMMEDIATELY upgrade all your scouts to hunters. They have three strength instead of two, can attack, and can see farther away.

 

[12padams]

Ok I've recorded episode 8 which is an hour and a half unedited but I expect it to drop down to just over an hour. Sadly however my microphone record volume was set to 0.2 rather than 1.0 so my voice is a lot softer than it was before and the music is much more dominant making it hard to hear me when loud tracks are on.

Anyway I've now got edit out turn times and then work out how to increase the volume of the video overall since it will be to soft for youtube. Expect the next episode within 24 hours but be aware that the music is very loud even though I turned it down slightly since the last episode.

Edit: this is going to be a Little more complicated than I thought... Expect the next episode within a week and... The gameplay is good but the commentary won't be audible ;(
If you are interested in where I am seeking help for this then check this out... You may even be able to give me a solution... http://frapsforum.com/threads/game-sounds-were-too-loud-and-my-voice-was-too-low-fix-it.2219/

Edit 2: Well... I've come up with a solution but its not a good one basically I will remove vocals from the video file which will leave in the game sounds and background music. Then I will do a voice over at proper volume giving the illusion that I never stuffed up the video. I'll try to pretend I am really playing lol

Edit 3: what I said above is too hard to do and would make me stumble upon my words. Instead I'll keep the old yet soft lets play voice in but I will put text over my video explaining important things.

Edit 4: Ah stuff it... I gave up on this episode, came up with a silly solution!

 

[12padams]

Pretend this episode never happened... Its just here to prevent any cuts in the game

Episode 8: http://youtu.be/kNiPwaVik08
Seriously just skip this stupid episode. My microphone volume level stuffed up so you can't properly hear my voice. The episode was 1.5 hours long but 30 minutes in I made a save that I was going to send to Koshing yet decided not to. I decided to scrap the last hour of this episode making it only 30 minutes long and I am going to load up the save file from the file I was going to send to Koshing rather than where I officially saved one hour later so you don't miss anything. Watch this stupid episode if you want... but don't say I didn't warn you!

 

[wolfensoul9]

Ah, really sucks about that mike. Well, just think, now you can play what you played before again...only better, this time.

Anyways, just a few bits of advice. Those icons you were questioning about? The hammer, beaker, gold, etc on the city? Those symbols indicate that that city is the highest out of all your cities in terms of production, science, and money making, respectively.

Strange about the artic combat not listing the protection against terrain damage...it used to. I am not sure if it still protects, honestly. Perhaps they removed that feature?
Oh, and you spent a long time looking for the tech that unlocked the promotion. If there isn't one listed in the civilopedia, then there isn't a tech requirement. The only requirement is that the unit already be promoted to a single star.

So good to see you finally getting another animal. One is better than none, but just for future plays, try to have at least ten myths by this point in the game. So far, you have two.

That scout south of your city isn't doing you any good, now. There are just no more animals around, too crowded with cities. What I suggest is you explore to the best of your ability the rest of your continent with him. Think of it as "keeping scouts alive" training. See how far you can go without him dying. Remember, stick to forests, and heal whenever necessary. Several times earlier in the play, I saw you moving scouts that were weakened.

Make sure you have a raft ready for that tribe. And remember my advice of settling one east of the bamboo, not on it. I actually recommend you permanently station a raft as a ferry of sorts between the two continents. You'll need gatherers and defenders crossing that strait.

Pretty crazy how one of the devs decided to cut out a third of the turns in the game. I can't say I understand why he thought it was necessary.

Oh, and one final thing. Espionage. Go into the espionage advisor, and take off putting points into the lower-ranked civs. You need to be able to see what the high-scoring civs are researching, so you can truly tell how far along in the tech tree you are compared to them. Put points into the Sioux, etc.

Oh and, just as a pre-emptive bit of advice...

If you do get to sedentary first, after getting caste, I'd recommend agriculture. It will allow to to take off ANOTHER 25% food needed to grow. Your civs will be gaining population like crazy, then. After that, I'd recommend archery, and getting all the way up to boat building. It would be a good idea to station galleys (or whatever they're called in this game, the next step above war canoe ones) around the waters of the new continent to get more sea animals.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@12padams

The close captions for this are hilarious.

((But)) .... ((Here)) ... ((But)) ... ((Copper Yet)) ... ((Sports Spouses)) ... ((But)) ... ((Ho)) ... ((t)) ... ((g_p_a's)) ... ((cells)) ... ((she's exchange)) ... ((taste)) ... ((ike estimate)) ... ((desade)) ... ((sticky)) ... ((sir))

 

[12padams]

Ah, really sucks about that mike. Well, just think, now you can play what you played before again...only better, this time.

I played so well though! I was actually in first place and was 5 turns away from seditary lifestyle and nobody else had reached it yet! Luckily only 8 turns were done in ep 8 in the first 30 minutes so if people follow my recommendation and skip the episode then they only miss 8 turns

Anyways, just a few bits of advice. Those icons you were questioning about? The hammer, beaker, gold, etc on the city? Those symbols indicate that that city is the highest out of all your cities in terms of production, science, and money making, respectively.

Lol you actually heard me ask that?

So good to see you finally getting another animal. One is better than none, but just for future plays, try to have at least ten myths by this point in the game. So far, you have two.

I was ultra lucky in the last hour which I deleted... I had 7 of them!

That scout south of your city isn't doing you any good, now. There are just no more animals around, too crowded with cities. What I suggest is you explore to the best of your ability the rest of your continent with him. Think of it as "keeping scouts alive" training. See how far you can go without him dying

ah nice idea... I didn't do that last time. He did manage to subdue 2 animals while I kept him still though... I want to explore anyway though

Make sure you have a raft ready for that tribe. And remember my advice of settling one east of the bamboo, not on it. I actually recommend you permanently station a raft as a ferry of sorts between the two continents. You'll need gatherers and defenders crossing that strait.

Lol I already did that and an island gave me boat building so I even got to upgrade it to a canoe! But that's all undone now

Oh, and one final thing. Espionage. Go into the espionage advisor, and take off putting points into the lower-ranked civs. You need to be able to see what the high-scoring civs are researching, so you can truly tell how far along in the tech tree you are compared to them. Put points into the Sioux, etc.

Heh... Noticed I've avoided talking about espionage in this lets play... There's a reason for that I have no idea how it works apart from choosing other civs to spend your points on he see what techs they we researching.

If you do get to sedentary first, after getting caste, I'd recommend agriculture. It will allow to to take off ANOTHER 25% food needed to grow. Your civs will be gaining population like crazy, then.

Nice... I swear you know so much about this that you should make your own lets play... Have you made one or do you plan to?

 

[God-Emperor]

Right near the end of episode 7 you start building a tribe. This was bad. Your city was, I think, just 3 turns from increasing in population. Now it won't grow until you are done. Growth is good. Stagnating 3 turns from growth is bad.

On top of that, when the tribe is done it will just sit there because you have no military unit to escort it and defend the city when it is built and also do not have rafts to carry everything over to where you want to put it. You will have delayed the city growth for nothing. If you build 2 atl-atl units to escort it the city will probably grow while building them (and you want 2, not 1 - remember what happened with the last one getting attacked multiple times; one lucky attacker and that tribe would have been gone). If you also build the 3 rafts you will need to carry the tribe + 2 atl-atls before building the tribe then the city will definitely grow before starting (or continuing, if you switch off it) the tribe.

Having a tribe sitting around doing nothing is a waste. Build the escorts first. While the tribe sits there it does nothing. While the escorts sit there they protect the city, which is better than nothing.

By the way, I knew long ago the other continent was inhabited. How? The big stone head. (Indigenous people, or whatever the thing is really called.) As you have seen, they come from goody huts being popped and animals & Neanderthals don't do that, only units from civs. Therefore it is inhabited, or possibly someone on your continent got there first. But none of the civs on your continent have gone there unless there is one on the west coast of the continent you haven't met yet that can get to the new continent by going in the opposite direction. Or, alternatively, the "other continent" could actually be part of the same continent you are on - you have not yet explored the entire thing, so that was still possible (and it still is possible, but not likely).

The fist icon on the scoreboard means that civ is preparing to go to war. It may or may not actually do so, but it is trying to gather what it considers to be enough forces to do so and if it meets its goal it will do so. This condition is known as "WHEOOHRN" since where you see it other than the scoreboard is via the diplomatic screen: if you go there and see if they are willing to declare war on someone else and the reason that civ on the list is red and unselectable is "we have enough on our hands right now" then that is for this reason.

The red person icon in the column before that on the scoreboard means you are that civ's worst enemy.

If a civ has both of these, then odds are good (but not 100%) that it is you they are preparing to go to war with.