Caveman2Cosmos Let's Play - AstralPhaser/12padams

[12padams]

I can't believe you've gone so far into the prehistoric era and have only gotten one animal. Just think, all the hundreds of turns you spent just pressing enter, if only you had positioned a few scouts around your city borders, animals would have tried to attack them, and you would've killed them. So many hammers and food, and potentially science lost....(from the myths).

I don't know how much scouts are worth but I doubt that I could actually get much production from them killing animals to compared with their cost. Still I'll position them around on hills anyway simply to remove fog of war so I know if enemies are approaching.

The Egyptians are fairly strong. They are also your nearest neighbor. Not good. Get tribalism, and EXPAND. Take up that good terrain to the southeast along the coast BEFORE THEY DO. Snatching up that good terrain, and leaving them to the crappy ones is highly advisable, expecially considering the fact that you basically have no penalties for expansion, no REV, no unhappiness, nada. Expansion should be paramount.

Don't forget to build lots of gatherers to improve your tiles, and make your paths to your new cities.

I recorded episode 6 about 13 hours ago so all this advice won't be applied until episode 7... But guess what... I did what you said anyway in episode 6 before I read this. Tribalism in done. I've got a Tribe an I am ready to build my next city. Episode 6 ends with "where should I build a city?" So you guys can help me decide. I will upload that episode in 15 hours from now.

Finally....try your damned hardest to get to sedentary lifestyle first.

Ok... I'll aim for that tech after the tech I've been aiming for which gets me horsemen which I plan to use to attack the Egyptians. Basically I'll dedicate my main city to building attacking units just until Egypt is wiped out... An early new city will be really benifitial for me! Best of all it seems I am t he only one with horses right now so yea... I've been getting my gathers to link them to my city and stuff while the tech is researching so I can use them strait away.

 

[God-Emperor]

I don't know how much scouts are worth but I doubt that I could actually get much production from them killing animals to compared with their cost. Still I'll position them around on hills anyway simply to remove fog of war so I know if enemies are approaching.

Scouts are worth a lot. Really. You should always have at least 1 out there. If you leave one sitting on a forested hill the combined defensive bonus from the hill, forest, and fortification ends up being +100%. That pushes them up to strength 4 (plus a first strike chance from the free hunting promotion, and possibly more bonus from another promotion) vs. 3 for a Neanderthal, so they usually survive if attacked by one of those.

Each animal they kill gives at least 1 added to the city (once you research some tech, probably hunting, they all give +1 more). More food = faster population growth.
Most, but not all, animals they kill give 1 or more added to the city.
The extra production might not be enough to completely make up for the cost of a scout at this time, but if you had done it earlier there is a good chance that it would. However that is not important. Even just the food makes up for the deficit, if there is one, and that is not the only thing you also get from them.

Possibly the most important thing you get from hunting: You know how you like build buildings that add research points? When a scout subdues an animal each non-duplicate animal type lets you build something that gives +1 research per turn. Some types can do more than one of these, so you can use duplicates to get even more. Also, you recently researched Bone Working and noticed that there are a couple of buildings it unlocks that give both +1 and +1. Both of these buildings can only be built by subduing an animal of the correct type. Unlike the Myth "buildings", which require the capitol building to build, these two can be built in any city so you can also add them to the new cities you will get later. These are the Feather Worker which you can build via many varieties of bird, and the Shell Worker which require a tortoise of some sort (desert or Galapagos are, I think, the only two) .

At this point you only have 1 research bonus from a Myth building. I would guess that all of the other civilizations have more than 1. They could easily have 5 or more.

If you had subdued just 2 more animals about 50 turns ago, you could have been producing 2 more per turn (or maybe more, due to the percentage bonuses you get and fractions from other things resulting in another one instead of being rounded away). 50 turns of that would have been an extra 100 research points (or maybe a bit more). That would have put you probably 5 turns or so ahead in your research from just 2 more subdued animals just 50 turns ago. Imagine where you would be if you had 4 more 75 turns ago.

And you may have gotten lucky and subdued an animal that would allow you to build the Master Hunter building. The better hunter units it allows are nice. The extra free XP they start with is nice. The potential for extra heath and happiness is nice (I think you'd get and extra +1 happy from the giant beavers running around in your capital). It is a very good building to have. The Hunter unit is an animal killing machine (they will normally defeat an elephant when they attack it, not even relying on defensive terrain for a bonus) and it is as strong as a Neanderthal so it doesn't have to worry about them so much, especially if you keep them on terrain with defensive bonuses when a Neanderthal is near. Oh, and the Hunter also starts with a free promotion giving +1 visual range so you can see things 1 plot farther away - like Neanderthals to avoid or animals to hunt.

 

[12padams]

Lol god emperor... I can now safely say I won't feel bad about building 3 scouts around my city ill do so in episode 7 but I now wish I had when I recorded episode 6... Oh we'll

 

[God-Emperor]

BY the way, I actually laughed out loud when you were so worried about the Neanderthals attacking your spiked clubman but they ran away and you were jumped by the lions coming out of nowhere instead.

 

[12padams]

BY the way, I actually laughed out loud when you were so worried about the Neanderthals attacking your spiked clubman but they ran away and you were jumped by the lions coming out of nowhere instead.

Lol yea that was a well planned attack by the ai... I guess the Neanderthals and the lions must have tried to team up on me to finish me off together... Lol I can now officially say I was ambushed by lions

 

[wolfensoul9]

Scouts are worth a lot. Really. You should always have at least 1 out there. If you leave one sitting on a forested hill the combined defensive bonus from the hill, forest, and fortification ends up being +100%. That pushes them up to strength 4 (plus a first strike chance from the free hunting promotion, and possibly more bonus from another promotion) vs. 3 for a Neanderthal, so they usually survive if attacked by one of those.

Each animal they kill gives at least 1 added to the city (once you research some tech, probably hunting, they all give +1 more). More food = faster population growth.
Most, but not all, animals they kill give 1 or more added to the city.
The extra production might not be enough to completely make up for the cost of a scout at this time, but if you had done it earlier there is a good chance that it would. However that is not important. Even just the food makes up for the deficit, if there is one, and that is not the only thing you also get from them.

Possibly the most important thing you get from hunting: You know how you like build buildings that add research points? When a scout subdues an animal each non-duplicate animal type lets you build something that gives +1 research per turn. Some types can do more than one of these, so you can use duplicates to get even more. Also, you recently researched Bone Working and noticed that there are a couple of buildings it unlocks that give both +1 and +1. Both of these buildings can only be built by subduing an animal of the correct type. Unlike the Myth "buildings", which require the capitol building to build, these two can be built in any city so you can also add them to the new cities you will get later. These are the Feather Worker which you can build via many varieties of bird, and the Shell Worker which require a tortoise of some sort (desert or Galapagos are, I think, the only two) .

At this point you only have 1 research bonus from a Myth building. I would guess that all of the other civilizations have more than 1. They could easily have 5 or more.

If you had subdued just 2 more animals about 50 turns ago, you could have been producing 2 more per turn (or maybe more, due to the percentage bonuses you get and fractions from other things resulting in another one instead of being rounded away). 50 turns of that would have been an extra 100 research points (or maybe a bit more). That would have put you probably 5 turns or so ahead in your research from just 2 more subdued animals just 50 turns ago. Imagine where you would be if you had 4 more 75 turns ago.

And you may have gotten lucky and subdued an animal that would allow you to build the Master Hunter building. The better hunter units it allows are nice. The extra free XP they start with is nice. The potential for extra heath and happiness is nice (I think you'd get and extra +1 happy from the giant beavers running around in your capital). It is a very good building to have. The Hunter unit is an animal killing machine (they will normally defeat an elephant when they attack it, not even relying on defensive terrain for a bonus) and it is as strong as a Neanderthal so it doesn't have to worry about them so much, especially if you keep them on terrain with defensive bonuses when a Neanderthal is near. Oh, and the Hunter also starts with a free promotion giving +1 visual range so you can see things 1 plot farther away - like Neanderthals to avoid or animals to hunt.

This, this, this. Times infinity, this.

 

[wolfensoul9]

Ok... I'll aim for that tech after the tech I've been aiming for which gets me horsemen which I plan to use to attack the Egyptians. Basically I'll dedicate my main city to building attacking units just until Egypt is wiped out... An early new city will be really benifitial for me! Best of all it seems I am t he only one with horses right now so yea... I've been getting my gathers to link them to my city and stuff while the tech is researching so I can use them strait away.

I kinda feel bad for trying to change your mind so much. I mean, it is your LP, after all, but...

Sedentary lifestyle is THE race. It's like a portal to another world. The first person there gets a free tech, which can be used to get a much better civic.

If you're the first to sedentary, basically, as far as I'm concerned, you've won the game. That statement's only a little exaggerated. Get there first, and then the game is your plaything. You want to trample the Egyptians? Go for it. I'm just trying to make sure you get ahead. Once you're safely on top, I feel like you're safe to play the game however you want. Like a bird leaving the nest...

I'd hold off on any war until after sedentary. After sedentary, you get your horses, and archers, too. Then wreak havoc.

That's what I'd do. You're free to play the game as you wish, as always.

 

[12padams]

I kinda feel bad for trying to change your mind so much. I mean, it is your LP, after all, but...

Lol I like your advice without it I could get behind leading to my death and a shorter lets play. I am playing to win and I intend to win with your help lol

Sedentary lifestyle is THE race. It's like a portal to another world. The first person there gets a free tech, which can be used to get a much better civic.

Yea... After I get the horseman tech I will go straight for sedentary lifestyle. I'll make it faster by devoting my production to research instead of building horsemen once I can make them. But don't worry... I am ahead of the others in research at least as of episode 6 (ill upload that soon, still editing it).

Btw make sure you watch episode 6 (remember I recorded that over 24 hours ago and haven't uploaded it because I'm too busy with my job) because I end the episode with "where do I build my city?" And my tribal/settlers are standing on the tile I would choose if I didn't get a respocne from you guys.

I'd hold off on any war until after sedentary. After sedentary, you get your horses, and archers, too. Then wreak havoc.

I agree with that... I'll declare war after seditary lifestyle...

Btw do you recommend a tech I should get for free after I research sedentary lifestyle?

 

[wolfensoul9]

Well, alright. Just don't say I didn't warn you if you don't get sedentary first. Remember, playing on Monarch, the AI has cheaper tech times than you. Also...I am not 100% sure, but make sure that horsemen don't get penalties for attacking cities. I think they might.

And if you do get to sedentary first, go for caste system. This gets you the caste civic, which will decrease the amount of food to grow by a whopping 50%!

 

[12padams]

Well, alright. Just don't say I didn't warn you if you don't get sedentary first. Remember, playing on Monarch, the AI has cheaper tech times than you. Also...I am not 100% sure, but make sure that horsemen don't get penalties for attacking cities. I think they might.

And if you do get to sedentary first, go for caste system. This gets you the caste civic, which will decrease the amount of food to grow by a whopping 50%!

Lol I changed my mind just before I logged in and read this. At the start of episode 7 I am instantly gonna switch to sedentary lifestyle because that's definitely more important right now! Oh and thanks for telling me about caste system... that's an awesome civic!

 

[12padams]

Episode 6: http://youtu.be/fUcHQhhSpmA
Finally we break free from the land to explore the coasts of our own and a new continent. Along the way we tease bears, neanderthals and deadly pigeons who watch us from the land yet are unable to attack us. All seems to be going well until our raft comes across a crocodile. At least we can officially call ourselves a tribe now that tribalism has been researched.


Now just remember that I made this episode before you all commented on episode 5 so that's why I may not have followed your recent advice. I will however carry out your advice when I record episode 7 in 19 hours from now. Expect episode 7 to be uploaded in about 2-3 days.

 

[Koshling]

I felt soo bad for you when you decided not to take the extra health options on the herbalism event you got (ALWASY take the 90% chance at +2 health, 50% chance of pop reduction with that event IMO). If your city is size 1 when you get it, it's a total no-brainer (pop reduction cannot actually happen), but even at size 2 (as you were at the time) you should take it. +2 health in EVERY city you EVER build for the entire game is HUGE.

Sadly that event can never occur again in this game

 

[12padams]

I felt soo bad for you when you decided not to take the extra health options on the herbalism event you got (ALWASY take the 90% chance at +2 health, 50% chance of pop reduction with that event IMO). If your city is size 1 when you get it, it's a total no-brainer (pop reduction cannot actually happen), but even at size 2 (as you were at the time) you should take it. +2 health in EVERY city you EVER build for the entire game is HUGE.

Sadly that event can never occur again in this game

Oh, I thought it was in just that city and I was like no way would I set myself back 100 turns just for 2 more health which isn't even guaranteed. What episode was that btw because I can only just remember that since its so far in the past... Also does everyone agree with koshing? Because I am gunna do another lets play of this game in a year or so with 50 civs, gigantic map on deity using all the things I learnt from doing this one. I wanna wait for well developed space in this mod before I do that though...

 

[TowerWizard]

I agree with Koshling. Always take that chance. The 5% chance that you will loose one pop and not get the bonus is worth the 90% chance of getting the bonus.

Playing 50 civs on a gigantic map will demand a lot from your CPU. I hope you have a new, powerful computer at that point, since otherwise it will be a chore to play during such conditions.

Btw, your decision of deciding to skip the event remind me of myself in regards to an event in another mod. Fall From Heaven, I think. The event gives you a great artist in the capitol, but also makes your capitol experience anarchy for like 10 turns. "No way" I thought, and skipped the event. Later, I learned that the event is a no-brainer, since the Great Artist could perform a Great Work, eliminating the anarchy and bringing a lot of culture to the capitol. Once you knew that trick, you understood that there was no downside to the event at all. In this case, the event is less of a no-brainer (except if you have a 1 pop capitol) but still, once you understand its potential, you should soon realize that it is, except in very special cases, best to take the chance at +2 Health permanently in all cities.

 

[Taxman66]

In my current game I got that event very late and ate the loss of 2 pop (1 each from 2 cities), and still counted myself as coming out the better.

 

[TowerWizard]

Ok, since I don't want to spoil anything for you who have not yet seen the next episode, I will put some of my episode specific comments in a spoiler tag.

Spoiler :

Work on the tile with the Poultry!! You have lost probably 75 tools by not realizing you can work that AWESOME tile!

The reason units popped by the Islands gets teleported is that, in spite what you may have believed, they are not sitting in your rafts. They are standing on the water. Whey you click next turn, the game realizes this, and corrects itself by sending it to a nearby land tile. The remedy is to click a button that says "board ship" or something like that. THEN it will be going on the raft!

You just had to declare three wars there, didn't you Wow, I would not have done that, because now they will dislike you for ages and ages. You will have diplomatic penalties against them until pigs can fly, basically! You did get some gold out of it, though.

As someone else has already said, you could well have built some scouts for a chance of subduing animals, but my guess is that you will do that in the next episode.

And for where to place the tribe... The perfect spot would have been on the exact tile where there is a peak to the south of where your tribe is standing. Since that tile is unavailable, my recommendation is the tile directly west of that tile, in between the peak and the while-colored tile, the salt flat? This tile is near the coast, which is nice, and it has access to five resources, and can work one hill to the south later on too. This location is somewhat more aggressive than the tile your tribe is standing on, but it does not prevent that tile to be used for settling in the future.

means that trade routes can now operate through these tiles. It does not mean that you units can walk upon them. For instance, ships can cross the oceans long before you can establish trade routs across them. To know when you can cross the oceans, you have to look at each specific ship, to see whether it can only go on Shore tiles or not.

Stone is an awesome resource. It lets you build wonders otherwise unavailable, and just plain increases your production with the help of a special building. It is also used to upgrade your trail paths to cobblestone streets later on (I think). Marble is equally awesome, in that it unlocks wonders.

I think I had more to say, but I forgot. This is enough for now anyway, I think.

 

[12padams]

Work on the tile with the Poultry!! You have lost probably 75 tools by not realizing you can work that AWESOME tile!

Lol I thought I was working that tile... I guess I must have forgotten about it after building that path which gave me the illusion that I was working on the tile.

The reason units popped by the Islands gets teleported is that, in spite what you may have believed, they are not sitting in your rafts

Thanks for explaining!

This tile is near the coast, which is nice, and it has access to five resources, and can work one hill to the south later on too.

How long until I get that stone though? It's on the other side of the mountain and realistic culture spread is on... Won't it take ages?

Stone is an awesome resource. It lets you build wonders otherwise unavailable, and just plain increases your production with the help of a special building. It is also used to upgrade your trail paths to cobblestone streets later on (I think). Marble is equally awesome, in that it unlocks wonders.

Should I then get it ASAP then by building another tribe on that other continent?

means that trade routes can now operate through these tiles. It does not mean that you units can walk upon them. For instance, ships can cross the oceans long before you can establish trade routs across them. To know when you can cross the oceans, you have to look at each specific ship, to see whether it can only go on Shore tiles or not.

Lol I wish the game had explained that since raft unlocks "movement" (actually its trading) alone coast lines and that's what has fooled me. Do you know which water unit first allows exploration of ocean tiles? Oh and when certain techs say "+1 movement for ocean tiles" does that automatically and instantly give current water units and extra movement per turn or does it only apply to new units?

 

[TowerWizard]

How long until I get that stone though? It's on the other side of the mountain and realistic culture spread is on... Won't it take ages?

Yes, it will take a while. However, you will also get one from the culture expansion of the capitol, so I don't think it is worth settling right next to it, just for that bonus. I always like to plan ahead when settling cities, so that they will be good in the long term, and not just in the short term. Thus, I still suggest the tile between the peak and the salt flats.

I hope other also chime in with their suggestions about your settling of the tribe, though, as I don't want to be the sole person influencing your decision...

Lol I wish the game had explained that since raft unlocks "movement" (actually its trading) alone coast lines and that's what has fooled me. Do you know which water unit first allows exploration of ocean tiles? Oh and when certain techs say "+1 movement for ocean tiles" does that automatically and instantly give current water units and extra movement per turn or does it only apply to new units?

Hm I don't now for sure about the what boat can first cross the oceans, but Caravels are first in vanilla Beyond the Sword. Some cultures may also provide boats able to cross befor others can do it. Studying the tech tree will yield the answer

Yes, such bonuses are awarded instantly to all units on the map, as well as new units. It is no different from the "workers build +25% faster" line in some techs; the workers get the bonus directly.

Anyway, it is fun to watch you play, and I am sure some good things may come out of it in terms of balance and tweaks. I love your lines of (I am quoting freely here) "that building costs gold in maintenance, so no I won't build it" and "wow this boomeranger sure should have been available earlier" and similar statements, because I am sure others feel the same. However, buildings that cost money is really no different from a unit costing money. You did now that units cost money to supply, don't you? You can find out how much they are costing you in the economic advisor. My point is, if the building is good, build it even if it cost some gold per turn, same as with units that are needed to fill a purpose. That said, not every building are worth the investment, same as with units. Like everything in C2C, it all depends on your situation.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@12padams

You should totally found on the river since it gives you freshwater AND more types of buildings that require a river. Also rivers help reduce water pollution.

Also if you want to see those buttons that don't click go to the resource section in the civpeida. It should have them under the same name. Such as "Mapuche".

 

[Taxman66]

If you have the fixed borders option on, you can always claim the stone tile with a combat unit (just remember to always keep a unit on the tile), once you have the right civic. In the unit options, look for the icon with the flag on it.