CBob01 AWM Training Day Game

[Tribute]

750AD is pretty late already. And you're researching monarchy already, so a switch to it would be good.

At this point, iron pillages only remove the ability to make mounted 4 attack units (knights) but even then, the AI can still build very annoying longbows. Well, at lesat you should be able to kill those more easily. But soon, won't they get to musketmen and cavalry?

 

[Bucephalus]

But soon, won't they get to musketmen and cavalry?

lurker's comment: Not if the Salt is pillaged.

 

[Norton II]

lurker's comment: Not if the Salt is pillaged.

The only problem there is that they might get gunpowder before we do; we won't be able to see their saltpeter right away. Fortunately, we'll be able to see it before they get MT. Also, I'm not too worried about muskets--a nice stack of MDIs and trebs should be able to handle them.

 

[Phaedo]

I think CBob may be right. We need to get out of Despotism. However, looking at the save, it's not time to switch yet. At least not from a gold perspective. Switching now would take us from +7 gpt to -20 gpt, at least partially due to an increase in our unit support costs (23 vs. 53 gpt). That said, I think getting out from under the despo penalty may allow us to grow fast enough that the switch will soon pay for itself.

Check what hapens with CAII if the FP is in one of the cities discussed. We are ready for a gov't change

 

[Bucephalus]

we won't be able to see their saltpeter right away. Fortunately, we'll be able to see it before they get MT.

lurker's comment: It wouldn't matter if you didn't; you can see their horses now.

 

[CommandoBob]

Pillaging the resource is one way to deny use of that resource. The other choice (done so well in Babylon) is just to pillage every road. Then, no matter where the resource is located, (unless inside a city), it cannot be used.

 

[Bucephalus]

Pillaging the resource is one way to deny use of that resource. The other choice (done so well in Babylon) is just to pillage every road. Then, no matter where the resource is located, (unless inside a city), it cannot be used.

lurker's comment: Another trick worth remembering is that if you pillage all the roads around the Capital, it cuts off all their trade with other civs, denying them imported goods and ruining their reputation in the process.

 

[CommandoBob]

Just because I keep forgetting...
Roster:

• Phaedo
• CivActuary - just played
• Norton II - UP!
• D'Artagnan59 - quiet since 12/8, Post #464
• Aabraxan - on deck
• CommandoBob - warming up

 

[Phaedo]

Just to beat a dead horse, pillaging the roads around the resource is as important as the resource itself in those german lands because the irons are so far away from each other. They will have to road 2 hills to get the southern one again. Those 12 turns should give you time to get to the northern one and back

Good Luck Norton! Stick it to them

 

[D'Artagnan59]

Back now.

Can be on deck.

 

[Norton II]

I'm 6 turns into the set. We've captured Tarsus, razed Zariqum, killed 31 units, and lost 8. We learned monarchy, so I switched and drew a 6-turn anarchy. I pillaged the German iron, but they hooked the other one back up, so I'm heading back over to pillage that. I'll finish up later tonight and post the turnlog tomorrow.

 

[Phaedo]

I'm 6 turns into the set. We've captured Tarsus, razed Zariqum, killed 31 units, and lost 8. We learned monarchy, so I switched and drew a 6-turn anarchy. I pillaged the German iron, but they hooked the other one back up, so I'm heading back over to pillage that. I'll finish up later tonight and post the turnlog tomorrow.

Sounds like things are going according to plan. Nice Norton!

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to build the FP with a leader in anarchy?

 

[CivActuary]

I'm 6 turns into the set. We've captured Tarsus, razed Zariqum, killed 31 units, and lost 8. We learned monarchy, so I switched and drew a 6-turn anarchy. I pillaged the German iron, but they hooked the other one back up, so I'm heading back over to pillage that. I'll finish up later tonight and post the turnlog tomorrow.

Good work Norton, it will be nice to be out from under the despotism penalty. Now if we can cope with the finances, we'll be set.

At Zariqum - are you going to settle another city up there to rightfully claim our land?

 

[Aabraxan]

Sounds like you've had a productive set, Norton. Good work. Looking forward to the turnlog.

 

[Norton II]

Sounds like things are going according to plan. Nice Norton!

Just out of curiosity, is it possible to build the FP with a leader in anarchy?

Probably, but I built it in Murmur before anarchy started. Finished the set, BTW. I'll post the writeup a little later. Short version: nobody but us has iron, the Hittites and Americans are both down to 2 cities and on their way out (the Germans did that to the Yanks, of course), and we have 2 turns of anarchy left. Oh: we have another leader, too! Got him on the last turn.

 

[CivActuary]

Probably, but I built it in Murmur before anarchy started. Finished the set, BTW. I'll post the writeup a little later. Short version: nobody but us has iron, the Hittites and Americans are both down to 2 cities and on their way out (the Germans did that to the Yanks, of course), and we have 2 turns of anarchy left. Oh: we have another leader, too! Got him on the last turn.

No iron for anyone else. That's going to be nice.

And another leader! Sweet! Guess we don't much need that Heroic Epic the way we are going.

 

[CommandoBob]

...nobody but us has iron, the Hittites and Americans are both down to 2 cities and on their way out...

Sweet!

In a normal game I would think about making settlers to move into the unoccupied lands. Even here, in Always War, we should at least discuss this once Norton II stops gloating (deservedly, I must admit) and gets his turnlog and save game posted.

Another MGL. Army or Small Wonder? We'll have to wait, discuss and see.

Our map size is standard, so by now we should have most of our landmass explored. It looks like the Americans and Hittites will soon be dead and forgotten. I get the impression we could do that with one hand tied behind our back.

At some point we need to explore the oceans, but I don't think the time is ripe for that just now.

In two turns we become a Monarchy. More income, higher unit costs, better researching.

Will we be strong enough to focus our war efforts on either Babylon or Germany and still defend against the other? Or should we grind them both down at the same time?

I don't have strong feelings either way we go in our war efforts. If the AI cores are completely pillaged, we can take them down at any time.

In a solo game I would rate the Germans as worthy of immediate attention, just because they are so aggressive and pushy. They also have a lot of land to grab and the Temple of Artemius, which would help keep some citizens happy.

But this ain't no solo game, so let's scheme and plan and conquer. Together.

 

[Bucephalus]

and the Temple of Artemius, which would help keep some citizens happy.

lurker's comment:

IIRC, the ToA becomes obsolete with Education, so it would be of limited use to you.

 

[Phaedo]

Will we be strong enough to focus our war efforts on either Babylon or Germany and still defend against the other? Or should we grind them both down at the same time?

As for my $0.02, I think we can easily wage a two-front war. Once the Hittites are gone, we can send the other army and our southern cat stack in Hattusash (the coastal city) against the Babs, the cats that were in Somewhere can mop up the Yanks and push against the southern German emire while the northern forces can move west towards the Germans centre. We probably don't even need to build that many more units for a bit. I think it is time to focus on growth and infrastructure.

 

[Norton II]

Here's the save: View attachment CBob01-NII-Russians_850_AD.SAV
Initial military strength:
1 settler
23 workers (19 slaves)
1 archer
16 spearmen
17 swordsmen (9 in armies)
6 horsemen
7 pikemen
8 medieval infantry
35 catapults
3 sword armies
1 leader

Preflight: rush FP in Murmur; change clown in Rowdy Rostov to geek, sci to 70, monarchy in 6, -1 gpt

IBT: German mace attacks spear in New Horse Town, wins (0-1); YakkityYakutsk mace->mace (5), Murmur FP->treb, NHT pike->pike (5)
1:
slaves in YarYar to the south
cats hit Zariqum--1 hit, 4 misses!; Pietr returns to Omsk
sword army to hill SE of Tarsus, 7 cats and 2 maces from Somewhere City join
sword army in Germany pillages German iron, army in Babylon wreaks havoc
cats redline mace near YarYar, horse attacks mace, wins (1-1), returns to YarYar
IBT: Hattusas in trouble--Bab mace kills pike (1-2), joined by 3 bowmen; Mosaic Moscow settler->library (5); Hittite longbow appears near Tarsus
2:
mace in SWC attacks bowman on hill, wins (2-2); mace from Hattusas kills bowman (3-2)
horse from Murmur to Hattusas
pike from Savignon Samara to Iron Hill (Yank archers en route)
cats bombard Tarsus, 3 pikes visible (2v, 1r); sword army kills vet pike in Tarsus, army yellowlined (4-2)
sword kills German pike on mountain (5-2)
IBT: Babs lose 2 maces on attack, 1 bowman wins (7-3); Hittite longbow attacks sword in SWC, loses (8-3)--the sword was the only unit in the city, so I got lucky there; there are way too many Germans up north; RR mace->mace (5); GH pike->treb (10)
3:
drop sci to 60, make all taxmen and 1 geek, monarchy in 3, +18 gpt
cats hit Tarsus; 2 pikes (1v, 1r) and 2 vet spears visible
elite horse kills bowman (9-3)
mace kills redlined German pike (10-3)
rush walls in Hattusha
vMace redlines spear in Tarsus and dies (10-4); eMace kill rPike (11-4)--I wanted to let the army heal for a turn
IBT: 1 German mace wins, 1 loses, Yank archer kills spear (12-6)
4:
horse attacks mace, dies (12-7)
sword army kills 2 spears in Tarsus after cats bombard (14-7)
2 maces kill 2 German maces, sword kills Yank archer (17-7)
rush pike in West Moscow
IBT: German mace attacks and dies (18-7); SSP pike->treb, Halifax mace->pike, WM pike->treb (didn't write down the build times, but we'll be in anarchy soon, so it doesn't matter); Murmur riots (sorry)
5:
mace kills yellowlined spear in Zariqum, Zariqum razed (19-7)--I tried redlining that spear for several turns but the cats just didn't hit him enough
eMace kills redlined pike in Tarsus (20-7); sword army kills spear and longbow (22-7), captures Tarsus , 5 resisters
cats yellowline longbow, Ivan kills (23-7); mace attacks bowman, dies (23-8)
IBT: Babs lose 2 bowmen and 1 mace (26-8); Germans lose 3 maces (29-8); we discover Monarchy and switch, draw 6-turn anarchy (could be worse, but could be better)
6:
cats redline longbow, eMace finishes off (30-8)
cats redline mace, eArcher finishes off (31-8)
IBT: 2 German maces die, 1 3MC kills sword (33-9); Aztecs build Great Library
7:
eHorse attacks 3MC, wins (34-9)
move horse and sword toward Hot 'n Spicey to intercept Hittite settler pair
worker stack in JellyBank to horses, will start road next turn
IBT: Babs and Yanks advance; there aren't quite as many Germans up north now
8:
sword kills Yank archer after cats yellowline (35-9)
mace kills Bab spear near H&S (36-9)
move sword army, cats, and mace toward Ugarit
IBT: Babs lose 1 mace and 1 bowman attacking Anywhere (38-9); Germans wanna talk--agree just to see what we could get, will give republic or invention for peace, but not both
9:
cats bombard Ugarit, 2 yellowlined pikes visible (1v, 1r); sword army kils both, captures Ugarit, 2 resisters (40-9)
cat yellowlines Hittite pike guarding settler, eMace kills (41-9), 2 more slaves
cats redline Yank archer, sword kills (42-9)
mace attacks bowman, dies (42-10)
send pike to cover workers near NHT
IBT: Babs and Germans advance, Bab galley drops off bowman on horses near Ugarit
10:
sword army kills bowman, then moves north (43-10)
eMace kills Hittite pike in jungle, is redlined, but produces another leader! rename mace "Oleg" (44-10)
workers finish roading horses, move to mountain to build road for cats; another worker stack roads dyes in the south
cats redline German pike, mace finishes off (45-10); 7 cats target another pike, but only one hits!
send Pietr to Omsk in case German mace goes there
upgrade Ivan to mace for 30 gold

Current military strength:
2 settlers
29 workers (25 slaves)
1 archer
13 spearmen
15 swordsmen (9 in armies)
5 horsemen
11 pikemen
8 medieval infantry
35 catapults
3 armies
1 leader

City build summary:
Harbor: Omsk
Library: Mosaic Moscow
Medieval Infantry: Yakkity Yakutsk, Iron Hill, Rowdy Rostov
Pikeman: New Horse Town, Halifax, YarYar, JellyBank, Hot 'n Spicey, Savignon Samara, Murmur, Somewhere City, Tarsus, Ugarit
Trebuchet: Silly St. Petey's, Gold Hill, West Moscow, Hattusha, Anywhere
Walls: Hattusas

Research: None. We're in anarchy, and I'm not using geeks.
Economy: I'm using 15 taxmen right now to build up a little cash in our treasury in case we want to upgrade some units or cash-rush some things once anarchy's over.
Notes:
1. From now on, we shouldn't build settlers in any size 7 or 8 city. We're going to need that unit support.
2. I've got workers all over the place. Some should be sent back to the core to improve the terrain (e.g., chop that game forest near iron hill and irrigate it to help that city grow), while others should stay near the front to build roads to resources and newly captured cities. I'm having some of them build roads in the northern mountains to get some cats there. We can really hurt the Germans once that's done.
3. We could probably take out America pretty easily since they've only got spears and archers to defend their two remaining cities, but we'll have to watch out in Philadelphia; they might throw bananas at us!
4. Pillaging is fun. Not only are we disconnecting their resources, we're probably wrecking their economy, too! I've just been pillaging every tile I can with our armies and checking CAII every turn to see what resources they have.
5. After the revolution is over, the next player might want to change the city builds. I'd recommend having every city producing 4 spt or less build trebs while the rest build pikes or maces depending on what we need. Also, I've started a library in MM. We should let it finish and then start one in the next-best science city. Our research is going to plummet right after the switch.
6. We have another leader. Our options are the Heroic Epic, the Pentagon, or a fourth army (maces this time). We don't really need the HE, so it's between the last two and I'm not sure right now. What does everyone else think?
7. Eventually, we'll need to watch out for the Aztecs. They've built seven wonders, including the Pyramids and the GLib! Hopefully the Romans will put a dent in them with some ancient cavalry (they've got the SoZ).
Screenshots to follow.