I think if spears are only allowed to be used for cities, landing them with Jags and a settler will end up using the spears to defend the jags. However, if they were kept offshore until the city was built on turn 2, I think we stay within the rules. I'd take 3 workers with the settler too so a rax could be quickly rushed after the walls. If the city can survive 3 turns, I think they would be done. Knowing that they had to use spears to take out some of the 25 is quite reassuring.
If there are no objections, I'm going with this plan, except that I'll land the spears with the settlers and keep the jags offshore until turn 2. Or was that what you meant?
If there are no objections, I'm going with this plan, except that I'll land the spears with the settlers and keep the jags offshore until turn 2. Or was that what you meant?
I meant the reverse as I thought you might need the jags for fodder to make sure the settler survives. You are driving the boat so I think you know the situation best.
I meant the reverse as I thought you might need the jags for fodder to make sure the settler survives. You are driving the boat so I think you know the situation best.
I see. Upon reflection, I think I'll do it your way--numbers are more important than the extra defensive point, especially on flat terrain with only a 10% defense bonus. If there were a hill on the island, landing the spears first might be better.
Regardless of how you do it, if we could get a fortified town on that island, it'll be all over. If the town doesn't need the walls to survive, a rax would seal the Turks fate.
For the rest, I should have the invasion force ready soon: 41 jags, 5 spears, 3 slaves, and a settler in the first wave. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be able to wrap it up by 850 AD.
Edit: On second thought, maybe a few more spears would be better.
For the rest, I should have the invasion force ready soon: 41 jags, 5 spears, 3 slaves, and a settler in the first wave. Unfortunately, I doubt I'll be able to wrap it up by 850 AD.
Edit: On second thought, maybe a few more spears would be better.
I see we did we suvive the initial landing and destoryed some Ottoman Archers in the process. And the Ottomans attacking with Spears shows that they don't have much to fight with.
The Ottoman shocker was just that, and now Norton II will give his own shocker to the Ottomans.
I don't have the game open but the Ottoman island is two galley turns from our coastline, maybe farther depending on where you land. If we land close enough we should be able to reinforce our landing party quickly.
450 AD Ottomans
This map is a bit old but not much should have changed over 400 years.
If we land and build on the sugar on the north side of the island we can have a fortress city. I'm not sure how far that is from our shores, so reinforcements might be a bit slow, but I'm just guessing on that.
But from that city, once the onslaught stopped, both Istanbul and Izmit are within striking range of our Jags. They would move 1 road in our territory (1/3 MPs), one tile in Ottoman territory (1 and 1/3 MPs) and still be able to attack. Izmit to Edrine would also be a one turn attack. Bursa would take a bit longer, since it is further from Istanbul. Our troops might have to spend the IBT in Ottoman territory.
With careful planning, a lot of Jags and typical AI stupidity, it might be possible to end this by 850 AD. Not a certainity, but possible.
Our first wave would have to be strong and the second wave just about as strong. We'll take a lot of losses and those will need to be replaced.
I think I'll play the second half of my set tomorrow, following CBob's recommendations. If I can win it in 5 turns, I will, but I won't waste our forces if I don't think it's likely.
I agree with Bucephalus. A feint does tend to draw the AI quickly to forces that enter its territory. With no 2 move units you could drive a bulk of the Ottoman's forces away from your main landing on the near end of the island. I don't know if this would be bending the rules or not, but a large contingent of spears as your feinting move would do the trick. It would be like the Allies in WWII landing in southern France a day or two before the real D-Day at Normandy. (Memorial day weekend -- lot's of History Channel watching!)
Before anything, I want to say this was done more to figure out things for myself and get input from other players than real advice for Norton as I have full confidence that he can effectively launch the victorious invasion.
The purpose of the "Bikini Babe"(love the name) is to draw Turk forces far enough away that the beachhead can be established with minimal losses. Because of our 4-tile movement (thanks Abe) and the ability to land troops to ANY adjacent tile, we can land a force that is safe from a counter-punch (as the AI will have to use the turn in movement).
Here is where I see the best opportunity to exploit.
Spoiler:
Just to play the perfectionist, I think the landing with minimal losses would be to have our stack of boats at point A and drop off a single Jag each turn (alternating between 1st and tiles around Bursa) until we were sure that the majority of Turkish troops were in the area. Osman should continue sending his forces to that area because of successive landings and the stack of galleys. I think 3 or 4 single jag landings would do it. We could even play around a bit to keep him bringing his units around Bursa. We would just have to make sure that the final landing was on the 1st tile and LEAVE THE GALLEYS IN PLACE to continue to draw Turk attention. At the beginning of the next turn, we could unload our stack with the settler on the 2nd tile. Turk units that were in place to attack 1st couldn't get in position to attack 2nd in time. In fact, they would be vulnerable to an attack from our Jag stack that just landed. The next turn we could build out town and take out the archers by attacking them (with an almost even chance to win). We might not even need the town but I think it would be prudent to build it.
Although the above might minimizes losses, I really think a quick feint of dropping 4-5 units at once on A and then the rest of the force landing on B the next turn is probably the quickest and most effective way to do this. It would be rather tedious to dance for Osman. A single feint with a fair stack will keep his forces well occupied and keep losses to the stack minimal and the settler safe.
After some thought, I've decided not to attempt a second invasion during my set. Even with the diversion, we'll need at least 30 galleys to ensure that we have enough jags to do the job. Right now, I've only got 24 in HH, a couple of which don't have full movement. Once we have enough galleys, this is what I propose: The total force should consist of 2 settlers, 2 slaves, 10 spears, and 46 jags. The diversionary landing will take place on the spot marked on the screenshot below and will consist of 5 spears, a settler, and a worker. They might get slaughtered, or a couple of spears might survive--it doesn't really matter. The main force will land on the sugar tile in the north and will consist of everything except the remaining 5 spears. The turn after they land, the settler will found a city, the spears will come ashore, the worker will join the city so that walls can be rushed the following turn, and the jags will attack Istanbul, Iznik, or both.
Preflight: set lux to 0--we've got all 8 luxes
IBT: barbs sink galley up north
1: land on Ottoman Island; land next to Dover
IBT: landing force on Ottoman Island comes under attack--Osman loses 5 archers but kills 13 jags! (5-13); our army survives, so we can build the HE now
2:
-attempt to take Iznik--kill 2 spears, lose 1 jag, some other jags retreat, but we don't have any more full-health jags that can move this turn (landed a few more)
-land more jags near Dover
IBT: Osman attacks again and loses 3 archers but kills 12 jags, including our army, thus wiping out our invasion force!!
3: change some coastal builds to galleys; Desert City switches to settler; move 3 slaves toward HH; change 3 jags to spears
IBT:--
4: land 4 more jags near dover; kill a couple barbs
IBT:--
5: commence attack on Dover: kill 2 spears, only lose 1 jag, most jags retreat; Dover falls, and so does England!
IBT:--
6: change some builds to prepare new invasion force
The last 4 turns were uneventful, but our invasion force is almost ready. We have 30 galleys, 9 spears, 2 settlers, 2 slaves, and a lot of jags in Hooka Huacan. The last spear will be built in Into the Woods next turn and can be loaded into a galley the turn after. Unless the Ottoman counterattack is much stronger than the last one, we should be able to win before 950.
The wife went to get her hair done do I had time to play this morning.
Pre-flight - Norton left everything perfect for me so there is nothing much left to do but set sail for Ottoman Island and annihilate them.
860 - 900 - Nothing much happens. My final spear is ready in 860 but takes him 1 turn to get to HH. The D-Day invasion forces sets sail with the main force there in 3 turns and the diversion force there in 4. I landed in the places picked out by Norton.
IBT - Diversionary force is wiped out but kills 8 archers! Our main force is essentially intact. (I got distracted by a phone call from the wife. I think I landed 46 jags. If so only 1 is missing.)
910 - I build Beach Head City, add the slave and pop rush walls. I attack Istanbul first. It is the capital so I decide to go straight for the jugular. Of course, Istanbul is heavily defended but with only spears and archers. We have 9 wins, 7 losses and 8 retreats. Not bad considered that will probably be the hardest city to take. I raze the city. It was defended by 2 archers and 7 spears. We take back our worker that was captured and 4 slaves. Istanbul had the Oracle but it wasn't worth committing jags to defend it.
A spear and a redlined archer are blocking our path to Iznik. I kill both with only 1 retreat. I attack Iznick but fall short. 2 wins, 9 losses and 6 retreats. There is one redlined spear left. I land the 5 remaining spears to defend Beach Head City.
IBT - 3 of our jags die, 2 outside the rubble formerly known as Istanbul and 1 outside the soon to be rubble formerly known as Iznik. Suprisingly, Ottos don't reinforce Iznick. We Love the Chief day spreads like wildfire on the main continent so we get a palance expansion. I decide to add statutes to the outside.
920 - Attack the remaining spear and win. We raze the city and capture a cat with only using 1 jag. Most of the stack outside former Istanbul needs rest so I move them back to Beach Head City area and foritfy. I add one of the slaves to Beach Head City. I can only add one and that is not enough to pop rush rax. Since we have so many galleys, I disband one and then pop rush rax to pop rush a few veteran jags for later turns. My other stack outside Iznick only consists of about 8 jags so I retreat them too for healing. My second wave of 50 jags is only 2 turns away so I decide I can wait for the 2nd wave and heal my jags at the same time.
IBT - 3 jags unable to make it out of range of Ottomans are killed. Also 2 workers that somehow didn't make it back to the city were captured. Oops
930 - add slave to Beach Head City to pop rush a jag. We had a settler built on the mainland so I founded Just for the Heck of It for well you know for the heck of it. Kill spear with healing Jag to clear a landing for my second wave, which lands in northeast part of island. That was the quickest way to get them on land. The galleys were already moved to the fullest extent.
IBT - more WLTC day breaks out so we get another palace expansion. I decide to add the Lboogie13 Memorial 3rd floor to our palace. Archers attack the city. 1 is killed but another killed one of our defending spears. Otto spear pillages road.
940 - Our second wave is in place and most of our 1st wave jags are healed up. Time to attack. Resistance is futile. I attack Usukhadar, pop. 1, and auto raze it very easily. 1 win and 1 loss. It was only defended by 1 spear. I move the remaining forces outside of Edrine and Bursa, the 2 remaining Ottoman cities. There is about 30 jags outside Bursa and about 25 outside Edrine that can attack next turn.
950 - I attack Bursa first. We have 6 wins, 9 losses and 9 retreats. It was defended by 4 spears and 2 archers. I keep the city as it has the Temple of Artemis and there is only 1 city left anyway. I attack Edrine and it is defended by 4 spears and 1 archer.
Spoiler:
5 wins, only 2 losses and 11 retreats. I keep the city as a trophy. The world is ours.
Spoiler:
Here is the save if you want to check it out. View attachment CBob02_AD_950_Lboogie.SAV After reviewing the save, I forgot to mention I pop rushed a jag in 940, hence it is sitting inside Beach Head City in 950.
Spoiler:
Although my turnset was technically over, I couldn't resist hitting enter and watching us be rewarded vicotry Sorry guys the temptation was just too much! It was like winning the war but not being allowed to go to the ticker tape parade afterward. We rank pretty high.
It was great playing with all you gents. I learned a tremendous amount. Thanks.
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. A large contingent of spears defending a settler and moving with that settler - okay 
.
Of course, Istanbul is heavily defended but with only spears and archers. We have 9 wins, 7 losses and 8 retreats. Not bad considered that will probably be the hardest city to take. I raze the city. It was defended by 2 archers and 7 spears. We take back our worker that was captured and 4 slaves. Istanbul had the Oracle but it wasn't worth committing jags to defend it.
I decide to add the Lboogie13 Memorial 3rd floor to our palace. Archers attack the city. 1 is killed but another killed one of our defending spears. Otto spear pillages road.
I attack Usukhadar, pop. 1, and auto raze it very easily. 1 win and 1 loss. It was only defended by 1 spear. I move the remaining forces outside of Edrine and Bursa, the 2 remaining Ottoman cities. There is about 30 jags outside Bursa and about 25 outside Edrine that can attack next turn.
I keep the city as a trophy. The world is ours.
