Changes to Existing Civ's?

[SnowKomodo]

So which Civs would I like to see BNW change? I will approach this in a very simply manner. Which Civs do I rarely play because well...they lack. Here are my 8!


#2 Austria... Wanted to love it, but face it ...playing it is a laborous thing with CS as the focus.

#6 Gandhi... Hate everything about this civ. And Gandhi as a warmonger...is just wrong.

Austria: couldn't agree more about the CS focus being laborious. I rarely have the desire to take a city-state's spot unless I absolutely need it for strategic purposes, in which case I'd rather just buddy up with the CS to save me the tediousness of managing an extra city

Gandhi: AGREED so much. The whole warmongerer joke may sit well with the long-time fans but to me it really detracts from the game experience. Also, by having Gandhi consistently as the leader they miss out on the opportunity to have "actual" political leaders who had fascinating streaks of power

 

[GenjiKhan]

Another UA that bugs me is the Byzantines. It is powerful, to be sure, but the fact that it can be a total wash if you fail to found a religion is pretty terrible. I think there needs to be an adjustment so that you're more likely to get a religion or at least an add-on that gives a small effect so that the UA isn't completely useless in the worst case scenario. Suggestion for the former are +1 from your capital after Pottery is researched or simply begin the game with Pottery. I can't really think of a suggestion for the latter, but just something small. If you get a religion, it won't be powerful enough to make the Byzantines OP, and if you don't get a religion it acts as a small consolation. Edit: Perhaps Byzantine cities take reduced damage? Not more combat strength, just reduced damage. This would at least provide the Byzantines with some sort of UA benefit if they failed to found a religion, but wouldn't be a 'game breaking' UA when combined with an extra religious belief.

Maybe a simple buff for Byzantines that could be great is that their cost for founding a pantheon does not increase when other civs found a pantheon . It's a simple,but a very effective advantage,specially on maps with more civilizations .

The big one that needs a change in my view is Polynesia.

There ability is fun to play with, but against it's just annoying. I wonder how it would work with the trade route stuff being added (and not be too large an advantage).

Specifically I've never liked their ability to embark so early. I like using borders to route scouting around and their trait circumvents that mechanic.

Polynesia seems just fine to me . Probably,sea trade routes won't be avaliable right away until Sailing and I suppose that Sea trade routes won't cover Oceans until Compass . If such limitation are confirmed,then Polynesia will have to choose between founding World Congress,by going to Printing Press or creating sea trade routes with faraway civilizations,by going to Compass . Both are good advantages and are far away from game breaking .

 

[dagriggstar]

A hypothetical Indonesian (ie Majapahit or Sri Vijaya) civ is likely to get a sea trade bonus, they did basically cross the Indian ocean after all (Back before European contact). For that reason, I'm not entirely sure the Dutch will get a revamped UA...Unless they do Indonesia in a different direction to what I'm thinking of

On my personal mod I actually gave France Persia's UA with the enhanced golden ages and then a UB (Salon) that generates great artists (to trigger golden ages). I actually really enjoy how that set up works, except then you have to rethink Persia's UA...Get similar problem when giving India the Byzantine UA too...

 

[Heinage]

A hypothetical Indonesian (ie Majapahit or Sri Vijaya) civ is likely to get a sea trade bonus, they did basically cross the Indian ocean after all (Back before European contact). For that reason, I'm not entirely sure the Dutch will get a revamped UA...Unless they do Indonesia in a different direction to what I'm thinking of

The thing is, sea trade routes and selling goods from the other side of the world is what defined the Netherlands during their golden age.
Bringing in a trade routes mechanism and not giving the Dutch some benefits related to it would be like not giving the English some kind of naval bonus.

Having said that, it is not unprecedented for them to not give certain civs their rightful abilities, if you consider the lack of religious bonuses for certain civs (India, Spain, and to a certain extent Arabia - only having a desert start bias in their favor) as an example.

I'm just saying, there is a real case to be made for a revamped Dutch UA

 

[JanghanHong]

if you consider the lack of religious bonuses for certain civs (India, Spain, and to a certain extent Arabia - only having a desert start bias in their favor) as an example.

Spain can sometimes make 24 faith per turn starting from turn 10 and found religion by turn 20 though.

 

[Heinage]

Spain can sometimes make 24 faith per turn starting from turn 10 and found religion by turn 20 though.

Mt. Sinai and One with Nature?

 

[Bob_]

I think France would be a logical civ to go from defensive (culture) to offensive (tourism) at Steam Power. It would fit their history well and would be a logical switching point in time.

In fact, an argument could be made that any civ that gets culture-related bonuses should get changes because they might only be useful defensively in the future and will decline in importance when going towards a victory.

I believe the reason their UA expires is that the player should have an incentive to delay steam power (because of Napoleons ignorance in that regard). And I believe this is quite cool because this joke became some kind of tradition in the series which should be preserved. For that reason, if there is a new UA that kicks in after steam power, I hope it is something weaker than the first part of the UA.

And there I dont care for balance issues so much. Every time the map generator passes a starting location to me it is not balanced - so what?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

There was a hint in the live stream that France might have a new/improved UA: The tooltip for the tourism output on Warsaw's city screen showed a 25% bonus for open borders with France.
Now it might be possible that you get bonus yields for every open border agreement, but I think that the tooltip would then say '+25% for open borders with 1 civ' instead of naming France. Maybe it works like the GP bonus with Sweden. France gets additional tourism yields for every civ they have open borders with, and those civs in return get a bonus to enourage signing open borders with France.

 

[Gali]

No it was +25% tourism with France. You saw in the Tourism screen that the Tourism pressure on France was higher because that was the civ they had open borders with. Assyria was hostile and Brazil just contacted. It would make sense that open borders would aid tourism by limiting customs difficulties.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

No it was +25% tourism with France. You saw in the Tourism screen that the Tourism pressure on France was higher because that was the civ they had open borders with. Assyria was hostile and Brazil just contacted. It would make sense that open borders would aid tourism by limiting customs difficulties.

I saw that too, but I was talking about this:

 

[SuperWaffle247]

For some reason I find France's UA to be incredibly boring as is. I think that 25% bonus comes from the open borders agreement, but I'd like to see France get a tourism-related addition.

 

[Calouste]

There was a hint in the live stream that France might have a new/improved UA: The tooltip for the tourism output on Warsaw's city screen showed a 25% bonus for open borders with France.
Now it might be possible that you get bonus yields for every open border agreement, but I think that the tooltip would then say '+25% for open borders with 1 civ' instead of naming France. Maybe it works like the GP bonus with Sweden. France gets additional tourism yields for every civ they have open borders with, and those civs in return get a bonus to enourage signing open borders with France.

I don't think that's the case. There is a colon (":") after "25% for Open Borders with", so France is the first country of a list (in this case, a list of one). It's the same format as is currently used when you want to check which of your cities still need to build a required building for a National Wonder.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Oh, I didn't see the colon. Well, maybe I did jump too quickly to a conclusion .
I thought listing all the civs you have open borders with in a tooltip would look abd becasue it can be a very long list on huge maps.

 

[Knut_Are_M]

i do not know how France UA will change. But look at it this way Amphitheater,Ophera house, Museum gives 1 culture a piece. If the bonus of liberty and France bonus did not change they would have an even bigger edge on the other civs.

Also did anyone notice the lack of Specialist slots for cultural buildings?

 

[vanDietsland]

What about giving dutch trade ships longer trade range, more income when over the normal range and can defend themselves. Resembling the dutch trading in far away lands and the dutch east-indiamen ships.

 

[Camikaze]

I don't think that's the case. There is a colon (":") after "25% for Open Borders with", so France is the first country of a list (in this case, a list of one). It's the same format as is currently used when you want to check which of your cities still need to build a required building for a National Wonder.

Also, why would the French UA give Poland the benefit of +25% tourism? Surely if the French UA has been changed to be related to open borders and tourism, it would be France that gets the bonus.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think America, China, Germany and Russia could get some updates regarding influence, because:
- Their importance for XX century history.
- They are vanilla civs looking a bit underpowered now.


Also, those could gain something related to trade routes - Arabia, Netherlands.

India and Egypt are likely to get tourism-related bonuses.

These could be boosted just because they lack of fan - Iroquois, Ottoman. But these hope isn't high enough.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Also, why would the French UA give Poland the benefit of +25% tourism? Surely if the French UA has been changed to be related to open borders and tourism, it would be France that gets the bonus.

Bonus that are related to diplomacy have to work in both ways in order to be feasible . Considering that,it wouldn't be absurd to assume that any civilization which receive bonus related to international trade routes must also give an equal bonus to its partner .

 

[Camikaze]

In today's demo, Ed Beach suggested that you get the bonus for having open borders, or sharing a religion, or if you're trading with them (wonder if this means a diplomatic trade or a trade route?). He made no mention of this being specific to France.

 

[dashwinner]

Agreed. Also, do you feel the DLC civilization AI is, in general, "less well-made"(to pui it soflty) than the Vanilla and G&K ones? Rarely in my games a DLC civ gets anywhere, only the Inca are worthy adversaries

Could be a coincidence, but I really think they are much less polished than the originals.

i'm pretty sure it's the same AI for each non-human opponent, just tweaked with different flavors. There's a graph somewhere that shows it. But its not like they build a brand new AI for each new civs