Chariots: Cut or Keep?

[Kael]

Consider Chariots, keeping chariots can cause complexity concerns. Cutting components certainly can curtail confusion.

 

[loki1232]

Kael's crazy. And i think that the original poster was talking about war chariots, not normal chariots? I say keep war chariots as UU's for the hippus (cut for rest), and keep chariots for all civs (maybe they can only fight on flat terrain?)

 

[kumquatelvis]

Although to not waste the art, chariots could become UUs for horsemen for one race or another.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

I personally never use chariots at all, i think it stems from the fact that other units are just more appealing to me (the melee and magic lines in particular, and lately the archery lines) i think if you keep the chariots something needs to be done to give them a different advantage (liek the defensive strikes)

Historically Chariots were used to harrass melee ranks and rush through and divide regiments. i think a collateral damage vs melee (liek knights get vs siege) would be a good way of representing this. they could also get a bonus when on clear flatland (ie no hill or forest) and penalties on hills and forests? might make them too specialised though.

overall i dont mind if you keep them (because if you do i still wont use them) change them (i might start using them more if you do) or cut them (it wont make a difference to me because i never use them. so i wont vote because there is no "i dont mind" option.

 

[Blackmantle]

Strongly in favor of keeping them. I'm rather fond of both varieties as the few mounted units I'm rather fond of using instead of mounted being a rather deserted branch... (also the profit from metal in mounted at least to some degree is a neat thing imo.)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Don't cut Chariots, just differentiate them from other mounted units more. I think they should have difficulty (possibly the inability to move to, possibly a big combat penalty) in tougher terrains/features, possibly requiring roads to move there (I think Jeckel make a modcomp that could be borrowed for this).

I'm thinking War Chariots need to have collateral. Chariots should not be good at withdrawing like other mounted units. It might be appropriate to make them seperate unitcombat. If the AI could handle it I might recommend lowering their strength but letting them carry some cargo. out to the battle field for more conventional fighting, as historically chariots were often more useful as troop transports than in actual fighting.

 

[KillerClowns]

I was about to say "cut 'em," but then I read MC's suggestions. I suspect by the time this is all over, Erebus' chariot manufacturing industry will be deep in his debt.

 

[Saytr]

I love the mounted line for almost any civilization. My only beef with it is different units in it are similar, only with varying strength/withdrawal.

In melee there are immortals, recon has assasin vs. ranger paths, magic has spell spheres, and divine has divine magic/many upper tier units. Mounted lacks any choice.

Chariots and Horsemen paths should have more differentiation. Chariots should come earlier, and focus on collateral damage and perhaps transporting land units. horsemen should remain the same, filling the high withdrawal niche.

 

[copx]

Cut them but rebalance the mounted line while you are at it. For example, I think some of the features of the chariots could be merged into the technologically more appropriate mounted units. E.g. chariots can use weapons - horsemen cannot. Why?! Hell, the guy on the horse is even carrying a sword (at least my bannor horseman here).

 

[PotatoOverdose]

For balance reasons, I'd say keep em. If you look at every other branch, they all have at least two sets of national units. Metals gets Immortals and Phalanx. The disciple line gets high priests + druids/eidolons/paladins depending on alignment, and there are quite a few others as well. Point being, if the mounted line only gets one set of national units (not counting shadow riders which are religion specific), it would seem to make them overtly inferior.

 

[copx]

I never play long enough to get to Immortals and Phalanx!

If the team should decide that they want two types of mounted units they should really be less similar than they are now (as others have already suggested).

Oh, and please think about not making that second path "chariots". That is the horsey equivalent of putting Arquebusiers and Gunmen with Winchester rifles side by side - it is just silly.

A popular scheme in other games is having a horse archer line and a regular horseman/knight line. Maybe the horse archers could be the skirmisher types while the knight line is more "tanks with four legs".

 

[Dux_]

I certainly use chariots, their high mobility is so useful when trying to attack & withdraw. Definately a keeper.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Don't cut Chariots, just differentiate them from other mounted units more. I think they should have difficulty (possibly the inability to move to, possibly a big combat penalty) in tougher terrains/features, possibly requiring roads to move there (I think Jeckel make a modcomp that could be borrowed for this).

I'm thinking War Chariots need to have collateral. Chariots should not be good at withdrawing like other mounted units. It might be appropriate to make them seperate unitcombat. If the AI could handle it I might recommend lowering their strength but letting them carry some cargo. out to the battle field for more conventional fighting, as historically chariots were often more useful as troop transports than in actual fighting.

Ditto, no more needs to be said (keep em)

 

[Annex]

I like the mounted line as well. My biggest beef with it, though, is that the Hippus dont really have as much advantage in this area as they should. If you are going to cut them, you could make them a Hippus UU like loki suggested.

 

[Lade]

So tempting to vote your crazy...

What about Rathas? Would we lose our fast/sun 2 unit and make a religion weaker?

 

[Mailbox]

Cut them and give the mounted line more "mounted" units.

 

[MaxAstro]

I'm in favor of keeping them, but differentiating them a bit more from normal mounted units. I'd really like to see more of them as high-attack, low-defense units, with normal mounted units filling a more all-purpose roll.

Would also be interesting if Chariots could be allowed to carry a single melee unit, or perhaps just certain units that it would useful to rapid transport (Workers, Settlers, basic melee units, and adepts/mages/archmages?), although I can see that being a bit tricky to balance and implement, as it would require creating a SpecialUnit type to define "units that can be carried by Chariots".

Anyway, definitely like them thematically, and want to see them serve more a purpose gameplay-wise. Cutting for simplicity is all well and good, but you shouldn't cut good ideas just to get out of the work of improving their implementation.

 

[Pike the Hands]

Chariots are lame. Not mechanically- the ability to use metal+mobility is very nice- but conceptually it'd make more sense just to beef up the mounted line proper since the chariot really stopped being useful in real-world warfare thousands of years BC. Cut 'em.

 

[loocas]

Keep Ratha only.

*Despite the fact that it would kill me to see the dwarven goat-chariots go.

 

[OnmyojiOmn]

Remove generic chariots but use the art for a UU. Beef up the mounted line with some flavorful fantasy units, specifically replace horse archers with something less horseman-y and rework the Stirrups tech because stone age technology makes no sense that late.

FfH needs less historic Civ4 feel, and more interesting fantasy stuff. Sort of a threadjack, but to that end I'd like it if you just cut out the first tier of techs. Even a fallen civilization in a broken world wouldn't need to re-learn agriculture. In place of the stone age techs, give each civ a flavorful unique tech (similar to pearls for Lanun) with fun benefits. Some of these unique techs could have unique pathways to later techs, which would add depth. Removing tech requirements for early improvements would make the early game more interesting than alt+clicking Warrior and hitting enter 50 times.