Charlemagne IMM Isolation Challenge

konata_LS

Prince
Joined
Apr 18, 2021
Messages
381
@sylvanllewelyn
Spoiler :

Thanks for the strategy suggestion. Yes, trebs and galleons might work well at Monarch. Though my treb attack almost never succeeds, even my target and I are in the same landmass :o. I think I need to improve my empire management and wartime build-up :lol:.


I find it difficult most of the time under NTT to acquire Astro and then make it in time to Liberalism for something else - grabbing Liberalism is in part under intention of AI denial.
Another usefulness fof Lib is the Communism and State Property. In the standard games when the tech trade is allowed, people often can get Lib and SMethods trough trade, as both techs unlock no military units or buildings. In NTT games, it's impossible to get Lib through trade. Since we have to self-tech Lib sooner or later, trying to win the lib race is not a bad idea.

@Gwaja
Thanks to Henrik as well. Both isolation and NTT are Henrik's idea. He also asked to avoid choosing FIN leaders for the human player :lol:.

@Henrik75
Spoiler :

Jungle is horrible. Not sure if you remember your first stream: even with a good leader that you're quite used to play, your empire were slowed down by the jungle. If there were gems or dyes under jungle, the high :commerce: tile and +1 :)- would probably pay off the numerous worker turns to clean jungle. But a bare 2 :food:grass tile can rarely pay off these worker turns.


I wonder if the two Indian leaders would probably deal better than Charly with such a jungle island...:think:? Unlike normal workers, Indian UU can move in the jungle and start cleaning on the same turn. Cleaning jungle one turn earlier means we can cottage one turn earlier, or farming it to make cities grow one turn faster. Besides, both Indians leaders are SPI. They can temporarily adopt Serfdom for cutting jungle, then switch back to slavery to whip infrastructure.

@Nick723
MoM is interesting approach. To get early Calendar, the tech path would be Writing-Maths-Sailing-Calendar-Masonry..? :think: In this case, both Monarchy and IW would be delayed though.
 

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
4,747
Location
Cantaloupe Island
If you're interested, here's the Monarchy save
Thank you, it interests me indeed. I looked at it.
It led me to reconsider my tech path, that and the discussion over wonders + Academy. I used to max out on the research bonuses (Agri before Pottery) but now think it's wrong.
Even going for the GLH (t57), setting up the earliest Library is a big stake. So, I am now going The Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing after the GLH is done. The Library completes T75 (research resumes) and the first GP can be produced out of Aachen T82 (50% Merchant/Scientist). The GP outcome is RNG dependent but, at least, the bulk of the GM weight is taken out for future GPs.
Notable skips are thus : Agriculture, Iron Working and Animal Husbandry. The first 3 cities can work about 10 cottage tiles and this leads me to think that Pottery should be researched before Iron.
Now, I'm not entirely confident this is right but, the way I am doing this is to beeline Monarchy after Writing, leaving the skipped techs skipped.
This also leads me to revise my dotmap. With 2 northern grabs, we can still settle 5 cities and barely touch the jungle. One of the reasons I want Monarchy that early in the tech path is because it unlocks whipping for infrastructure. Without forests and HR, it's too hard to set up Granaries + Lighthouses + Libraries.

The trouble I'm running into, as often when replaying and trying to refine, is that I skimp too much on barb defence. The barb rush seems to happen around T60. I think enough warriors should be produced to secure the island in its aftermath, circa T70. Failing to do that, barb metal units will start to appear.
I'll try to post some pictures at a later time ; I've some points that are hard locked (GLH) but will need to do some replaying the follow-up, for security.

edit : I have this 525 BC pic from last tuesday where I secured the island :
Spoiler :


No AH, no Monarchy. Yes Agri (before Pottery), yes Iron (after Pottery). 5 workers.
It is behind you in tech and kinda similar in land development (you're ahead). I wasn't happy with the dotmap, however, nor the tech path.
I think this Vienne is a mistake. Augsburg also is a mistake (should share the food from capital).
I agree with your dotmap and Mainz should be 1S. If it gets a border pop, all non-jungled riverside tiles can be claimed when we settle your megalopolis. Some cities can be sacrificed but all cities should at least have access to 1 shared food. The way I planned this (and the reason I wasn't happy with it) I have two 0-food cities. I don't mind stagnating on cottages at happy cap but the shared food is essential to get there.
Finally, this tech path has no chance at all at an Academy. The Library simply comes way too late.

NB : I haven't taken the hint from Drew and still SIP and start on Worker-> Workboat :lol:
 
Last edited:

CarpoolKaraoke

Warlord
Joined
May 2, 2021
Messages
203
Thank you, it interests me indeed. I looked at it.
It led me to reconsider my tech path, that and the discussion over wonders + Academy. I used to max out on the research bonuses (Agri before Pottery) but now think it's wrong.
Even going for the GLH (t57), setting up the earliest Library is a big stake. So, I am now going The Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing after the GLH is done. The Library completes T75 (research resumes) and the first GP can be produced out of Aachen T82 (50% Merchant/Scientist). The GP outcome is RNG dependent but, at least, the bulk of the GM weight is taken out for future GPs.


What is your plan if it turns out to be a Great Merchant? The only viable candidate I have experimented with for being failsafe against 1st Great Prophet/Merchant is to oracle Aesthetics.
 

BornInCantaloup

Agent of Chaos
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
4,747
Location
Cantaloupe Island
MC bulb if the 1st GP is a Merchant. I think it gains more turns than settling. It's quite poor though, since it doesn't bring any immediate benefits. (The Academy in Nuremberg does take time to pay off, too, right ? I suspect its first benefit is to pop borders... :lol: )
And it cleans Aachen's GP pool. The next guy can be born at 75% scientist. The "plan" is to research CoL to have a tech that can make up for the lost gpp. Just pump more. In the grand scheme of things, the first GP will have been wasted. This is a big prop towards your Academy Rush approach, that and getting to the key techs earlier. As it happens, a proper tech path gets there before the GLH does.

I like Oracle -> Aesthetics a lot on regular maps (given marble and other conditions) but not on Iso and certainly not here. I agree with Nick723 and don't think Aest has anything to do with our tech path.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom