[RD] Charlie Kirk assassinated

I hope I understand properly what you're driving at here.
I don't think it was complicated.
It is in fact really really difficult to imagine a set of circumstances that would allow a simple reversal of races in this circumstance.
The circumstances would be irrelevant as it's a simple logical analysis of a statement, so I don't really need to go into any of the rest of what you said. Saying that one particular member of a group (or 4) is stupid, doesn't imply that you see that as a defining characteristic of the group. Further, the implication that it should be assumed that the speaker strongly equates how powerful a position you hold in society with intellectual capability doesn't appear to be warranted.
 
Yes, he specifically brings this passage up while criticizing another person for not supporting the bible in it's entirety
Yes, but that's only part of the story.

Ms Rachel might think she is supporting the Bible in its entirety. (I can't speak for her. Maybe I'll elaborate on this comment in time).

Ms Rachel has a YouTube program for toddlers. (why he wants to beat up on a person who makes Youtube content for toddlers, God only knows).

She made an Instagram post explaining why she says "God bless you" on that program:


It is this to which Kirk is responding. He gives an interview in which he responds to her view that we should love our neighbors.

[Interview]

Kirk's framing (read distortion) of her comments has become all the more interesting the wider I look in search for context.

So, in her Instagram she cites a passage in Matthew saying that the two most important commandments are to Love God and to Love your Neighbor.

To get his sick burn on Ms Rachel, he actually has to first misidentify from where she is drawing her quote.

Kirk identifies the Old Testament source for Christ's comments in Matthew: Leviticus 19:17.

He has to misidentify the source for Ms Rachel's quote, because, for Christians, in general, the New Testament trumps the Old (way too broad a generalization). So if he quoted a Leviticus quote in response, people would just blow him off. The new Covenant of Grace supercedes the old Covenant of the Law. So he acts as though Ms Rachel had cited "love your neighbor" from Leviticus 19.

He misidentifies the source for Ms Rachel's quote for the following strategic reason. He knows that, in addition to lovely sentiments like "love your neighbor," the Old Testament also has a lot of things that contemporary sensibilities find objectionable, including the bit from Leviticus 18, about homosexual activity being an abomination.

In effect, he's saying "I bet you don't believe that Ms Rachel, do you? So you're cherry-picking which Biblical quotes you like and don't like." Ha ha. Gotcha!

In setting up his gotcha (bogus from the start because she hadn't cited from Leviticus (as I had originally assumed she had)), he adds in the idea that the Leviticus passage he is citing says that gay people should be stoned. The Old Testament nowhere says that gay people should be stoned. In Leviticus 20, it does say they should be put to death.

After having said that Leviticus 18 says that gay people should be stoned, Kirk characterizes that as "God's perfect law."

Detractors of Kirk, watching that, sum all of it up to say "Kirk advocates for stoning gays."

Kirk gets shot.

Everyone gets interested in the question of whether we should mourn him or not.

No we shouldn't. Here's a list of reprehensible things he has said: he has said we should stone gays.

Stephen King finds that list on line. References it.

Someone tells him, "Acktually . . . all he was doing pointing out that Ms Rachel cherry-picks her Biblical citations."

King watches the video. Sure enough, there it appears that Kirk's primary motivation is to fault Ms Rachel for cherry-picking quotations.

Stephen King apologizes.

For a while, everyone takes that to mean Kirk is vindicated: Kirk never said gays should be stoned.

But one heroic poster on a particular internet forum says, "Not so fast! What position on homosexuality does Kirk advance through his comments in that interview? Let's say Ms Rachel is the cherry-pickingest of all cherry-pickers. Our original question was what is Charlie Kirk's position on homosexuality. We can still ask that question."

Well, he says two things: 1) that the Bible says that homosexuals should be stoned and 2) that that is "God's perfect law."

What is Kirk's position on homosexuality? You do the math.
 
What is Kirk's position on homosexuality? You do the math.
I don't know. You seem to want to base the answer on one video that supports your position and I have another video which would suggest he doesn't feel that way and in fact feels quite the opposite. So it's not really 2+2 here.
 
I'm not familiar of any clips of Hitler standing up to Goebbels or someone else and defending a Jew's right to exist, or welcoming the Jewish guy to the team.


"I don't hate them, I just want their civil rights taken away" and that's your ironclad defense that he wasn't a homophobe?

If I say that two things are bad, but very similar, then I'm actually saying one of the things (is it an arbitrary choice which one?) is actually good? This is about one step removed from full Kafka trap. But there's no substance in your accusation so never mind.

I'm not particularly interested in entertaining this discussion of abstractions. If you (general you) say that affirmative action is the same thing as (or very similar to) white supremacy you are defending white supremacy. If you say you suspect that people of color who have benefitted from affirmative action lack the competence to do their jobs because otherwise they wouldn't have needed affirmative action, you are defending white supremacy.
 
"I don't hate them, I just want their civil rights taken away" and that's your ironclad defense that he wasn't a homophobe?
Congrats, you got me to watch the video again to try and understand how on earth you took that from it. No clue of course.
 
I don't know. You seem to want to base the answer on one video that supports your position and I have another video which would suggest he doesn't feel that way and in fact feels quite the opposite. So it's not really 2+2 here.
So I'll change my question (to lift from us the burden of discerning what was in Charlie Kirk's heart). I will, for a moment, make it agentless. (I'll return to this later, though, because I think it's actually very important to how Kirk operated) What position on homosexuality gets articulated if "homosexuals should be stoned"* is characterized as "God's perfect law"?

Then we can do the 2+2=4? Yes?

*again, we're assuming for these purposes that the OT says that, even though it in fact doesn't
 
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Congrats, you got me to watch the video again to try and understand how on earth you took that from it. No clue of course.

Probably the part where he says marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman
 
So I'll change my question (to lift from us the burden of discerning what was in Charlie Kirk's heart). I will, for a moment, make it agentless. (I'll return to this later, though, because I think it's actually very important to how Kirk operated) What position on homosexuality gets articulated if "homosexuals should be stoned"* is characterized as "God's perfect law"?

Then we can do the 2+2=4?

*again, we're assuming for these purposes that the OT says that, even though it in fact doesn't
I think you've made a pretty good case that someone is not being a maniac for assuming that is what he implied. I understand that you're saying "A + B are both in the same passage, and he seems to be referring to the whole passage as 'Gods perfect law', so I'm going to take him at his literal word for it," if that's a fair approximation of your point.

To get there though you have to assume that by saying "God's perfect law" he was referencing the entire passage and not just the part about what a marriage should be. I think you'll find many Christians who think marriage should just be between a man and a woman. I'd HOPE you wouldn't find many Christians who want gays stoned to death, and I certainly don't think Kirk was one of the people who would have desired that outcome. It just doesn't jive with the other evidence available.
 
"Leviticus 18:22 calls for the stoning of gays" (we're assuming for these purposes that it does say that) + "Leviticus 18:22 is 'God's perfect law'" = "I believe gays should be stoned."
But also, if he reads the Bible, he knows that what God tells someone to say or do doesn't reflect God's permanent opinion on a systematized category. It's abundantly clear that God deals absolutes but for discrete who/what/where/when/why, and the language used is important. The extrapolation, to surmise in reverse, or what is more specifically a hermeneutical extension, Kirk makes is his own.

But it's actually worse than anti-literal reading.

Kirk is saying it's death by stoning to be gay. The passage only says its just death, stoning is Kirk's fantasy, and we don't even know the immediacy of the death penalty. But the crime is specifically "a man who lays with another man as he would a woman". That caught my attention. My Bible uses dynamic equivalence to maximize literalism across time and idiom. It's important to know that they didn't make mistakes in their wording. They were extremely deliberate in their phrasing.

Leviticus is full of very precise rules, and the extrapolations are pretty narrow, and if you're reading carefully the directionality of interpretation of strictness is towards less strictness. There's an entire catalogue of illegal incest, which gender in which relation. There is no reason to believe there is implied equal directionality: for example, no man with his aunt does not mean no woman with her uncle. (And fyi definitely no mention of cousins, it was pretty minimal). And they go out of their way to mention edge cases. For example "no man with his sister" and then later, "no man with his sister even if different mom", and then later: "no man with his sister even if they grew up in different households".

It's not a disorganized mismatch of scoping, it's so deliberate. Believe me, they recognize scoping, and they aren't afraid of repetition, nor the use of too much paper to say the exact same thing.

So I got curious, lay as another woman. A word literal translation is pretty difficult:
"And with a male not you shall lie the lyings of a woman .. abomination it is"
which is more like
"And with a male you shall not lie down the lyings of a woman, it is an abomination"

The context before and after, made extra clear in Numbers, is of course the maintnance of a society. Leviticus and Numbers are so clear about power dynamics, and making sure that every warrior age warrior bodied male was his own man, ready fight and lead. It extends to self-sales into slavery, the Jubilee and the return of both freedom and property, the rules against Usury, which incest is wrong, which incest carries which penalty, which sacrifices go too far, which sacrifices get cheaper alternatives to not crush the poor, which illnesses and foods must not contaminate the core people (the central warrior men), how a man must wear his hair and beard, which parts of the field must be left unpicked for the poor and foreigners to scavenge, in Exodus which specific foreign woman can't be wives, and on.

The word lying above, is never plural again, generally used to mean sex, but often literally just like, a bed to sleep in, a bed to rest in, a grave to be dead in.

In Exodus, Moses starts introducing laws. In Leviticus (next chapter), those laws get reiterated, updated, new ones come in waves throughout the book etc. And furthermore there are implied legal expectations of people living in the times of Genesis.

These laws are designed with the expectation that what is not legislated is basically legal with authority given to whatever male master owned that land or those relationships. But the one super super clear trend, is that Moses is making sure he can maximize the military power and the inter-warrior peace of his people. THERE CANNOT BE DOMINATION WITHIN.

So what does this mean? The banned act is the domination of one "free" or warrior level Israelite of another through sexual context.

While the society may have also had an implicit "penetration is dominance" therefore in their society it was inescapable, it was simple not a blanket ban on gay relations, and possibly not on gay sex (two men outside the house on private vacation traveling the world). It certainly didn't ban female gay sex, it definitely doesn't give any fricks about a possible gay identity which there wasn't language for, because that didn't matter enough to legislate or discuss.


If you understand that the language is deliberately precise, and you understand that God's black and whitedness is specific even when it appears general, by all earlier examples in a book whose order is deliberate, you can read so clearly that nowhere is this a ban on "gayness", but entirely a ban on subjugation through male to male sexuality. And understanding that even in the book its contextual what God means by each intervention, there is no reason to believe God meant that in a society where men are free and sex isn't subjugation, it carries any punishment whatsoever.
 
It seems to me that Charlie Kirk's reference to the old testament was just interactive rhetoric and not in any way intended to encourage the murder of gays.

In any case to my mind the correct reply is obviously that Jesus said 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.
 
It seems to me that Charlie Kirk's reference to the old testament was just interactive rhetoric and not in any way intended to encourage the murder of gays.
That would seem to be the reasonable take when you put it in context with all the other stuff you can find out there, which is really my point. The quote is being used by some to paint him as a guy who would be happy to see gays heads smashed in with rocks, which seems very strange and out of character for him when taken in with all the clips of him being a decent ally, really, of gay conservatives, at least.
 
It seems to me that Charlie Kirk's reference to the old testament was just interactive rhetoric and not in any way intended to encourage the murder of gays.

In any case to my mind the correct reply is obviously that Jesus said 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.
I partially agree but to a much less charitable end take.

It gives him the wiggle room to accept Peter Thiel et al. But Kirk, like most of these guys, know what their affiliation is. The thing that brings together his tent is a platform of militant-Anti. Anti this, anti that, with money going to back it up. He might only align 60%, with 20% totally friendly, another 20% wack-a-doodle-too-far, and the rest of the 60% going to feed his team. And this is how it works with a bunch of them. They are all way more reasonable than their common ground. They know this, it allows them all to point fingers if the blame comes, and they are all people with relationships and touch grass occasionally.

But they know whose team they are, and what the team goals are, and instead of stopping it, they feed it. The team goals are his goals. He profits, he dominates, he's shielded from the "oops too bad" about the people he claims to not hate. He is absolutely on team "do whatever harm to the outgroup as it takes to win / as you want".

I'll put it plainer. They know they're the fascists. They love it. Almost none of them is a perfect fascist, with goodness in them individually. But the group is their shared evil, and they're here for it.
 

Aggravated murder charges have now been filed against Robinson. So to the prosecution it seems pretty clear that Robinson had a premeditated reason for wanting to kill Kirk. At the trial, it will become fairly obvious what those reasons are, I should think...

To be found guilty for it in Utah carries with it the possibility of--perhaps in another ironic twist--death by firing squad.
 
According to Wikipedia, Peter Thiel is gay.

Now why would a gay man fund someone to encourage the persecution of gays ?
 
I have another video
Lot to unpack in your video. (I think when I boasted earlier "I can do this all day" I was cursing myself . . . to doing this all day. I technically have the day to burn on this, but it's probably not the best way for me to be spending this day).

So for now I'll just credit Kirk with the good material in that video, which is his depiction of Christ's ministry as being to those his society had marginalized and a full-throated endorsement of this approach.

Now I'm going to touch grass for 15 min. I hear that being terminally online can lead to some bad places.
 
According to Wikipedia, Peter Thiel is gay.

Now why would a gay man fund someone to encourage the persecution of gays ?
to have minions destroy others as he becomes a "god" with monopoly on AI control of those who survive .
 
According to Wikipedia, Peter Thiel is gay.

Now why would a gay man fund someone to encourage the persecution of gays ?
Both he and Vance are in it for the money. Thiel is not rich enough and Vance needs his money and influence to be president. Thiel is rich enough to avoid any anti gay blowback and as long as Trump and Vance give him business and tax incentives, he doesn't care.
 
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According to Wikipedia, Peter Thiel is gay.

Now why would a gay man fund someone to encourage the persecution of gays ?
Peter Thiel is playing highlander and thinks he's faster than the fascists he employs. His goals are insane. He seeks world domination, and the escape of mortality. The guy's nuts, but better poised than almost everyone for his wacky goals.

i just scroll up, r16 actually said it more clearly than I did.
 
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