Chavez: Carlos the Jackal, Idi Amin... good?
- Thread starter amadeus
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Actually living standards in Chile grew much more under Pinochet than they did in Venezuela under Chávez.
Not that I think this justifies all the evil Pinochet did. Unlike Chávez supporters, I am not a scumbag.
RedRalph
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With daily blackouts?
Those aren't blackouts!
They are a revolutionary socialist Bolivarian attack against the Reactionary US-backed bourgeouis tyranny of electricity!
The New Socialist Man does not need electricity, he does not need water, he does not need roads! All he needs is a... grave?
Created armed militias that have commited murder and spread violence, curbed freedom of the press, packed the Supreme Court, destroyed the democratic process by ruling by decree, turned Venezuela into a place as violent as war zones, crippled PDVSA and the country's oil production, has provided funds and diplomatic support to terrorist groups such as the FARCs, who engage in murder, kidnapping, extorsion and drug dealing.
RedRalph
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Let's have a citation please
Whether true or not, you consider that evil?
That's evil?
you think the democratic process in Venezuela has been destroyed? Really?
Venezuela is appallingly violent, but why do you think he turned it that way? Which of his actions specifically did that?
That just isn't true, and even if it was, you consider mismanagement of a copmpany evil?
He told them they should engage in a peace process actually.
You actually have not heard of all the shootings and killings against anti-Chávez demonstrators in the last years? I have provided many links to those stories myself. I suppose I could dig them up again, in case you never read them.
I also assume you do know Chávez has been distributing AK's to the urban poor, which he calls a Militia aimed at defending the revolution.
Of course it is evil!
Of course!
Yes, it has. Do you know how many men the opposition has in Congress? Zero. After packing the SC, do you know how many of Chávez's decrees were overturned? Zero.
Yes, Chávez was democratically elected. But there is no longer a democratic process in Venezuela. There can't be, without any opposition in Congress nor an independent Supreme Court (nor freedom of the press!).
It's simple. Look at the murder rate before he took over and now. It about tripled, IIRC. At the same time, murder rates fell steadily in Venezuela's also violent neighbors, Colombia and Brazil.
Why did they rise so much in Venezuela? Complete lack of investment in public security. Much like infra-structure is collapsing in Venezuela because of lack of investment (being diverted to weapons purchase and populist programs), so is public security. The effects are daily blackouts and a muder rate in Caracas worse than in Baghdad.
Firing experienced technicians and replacing them for illiterate political chronies is certainly very much wrong. It becomes evil when we remember how important PDVSA is for the welfare of Venezuela. If it collapses, so will Venezuela.
Yes, and he also continues to fund them and to ask the world to recognise them as a legitmate "warrying faction".
Shekwan
Kim Chi Quaffing Celt
Unsurprising comments, they seem stupid to us but he isn't saying stuff like this for our benefit. The masses in Venezuela will lap up this dose of anti-americanism.
Harvin87
The Youth
Chavez is an animal
You haven't lived in Venezuela for the past 10 years, I assume. Hence you and others cannot even begin to defend him. You have no clue of what's going on in the country and how Chavez' "administration" has done to the country.
By the same logic (and even if we just take the last sentence), unless you have lived in Venezuela for the past 10 years, you cannot even begin to attack him, because you have no idea.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Actually, I'm fairly certain he did live in Venezuela.
I wasn't directing it to you being able to criticise. I was saying that by your argument no-one who hasn't lived in Venezuela can either criticise or defend Chavez. Which is preposterous. We don't live there so we can't have an opinion?
Of course you can have an opinion, but some opinions are just completely uninformed. That's what bothers me. Some opinions in this thread are just that. Saying that Chavez has improved the living standards of Venezuelans is one. He has attacked free speech with no shame and has persecuted anyone that's been in his way. Predecessors were no better either.
I don't agree with Luiz a lot, but he's right here. There is no excuse to curb the freedom of the press. Actual national security and ongoing criminal investigations are the only tolerable excuses for not not allowing the press full freedom.
ParkCungHee
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Surely there has to be no reason to defend and compliment Idi Amin.
Well, that's what I would've thought. But obviously Chavez did it out of some reason. It would be interesting to know what he thought that was.
Maybe he ended his comments with "...is something I would never say and obviously don't believe!"
Maybe?
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