Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
It would be an honour. Just be sure to pass on any royalties.Abegweit said:
choxorn 01: Low level training game
- Thread starter choxorn
- Start date
goodsmell
Psychonaturalist
Yeah we need to discuss and think about a dotmap for city placement , but I guess it will be after the expert guys will finish their discussion about a settler factory and about their math for how can 1 turn save few turns . 
@Choxorn - Should'nt you play 10turns after the 1st turnset of 20turns by Bucephalus?
in that case it's 11turns , have fun ( after we discuss some things )
@Choxorn - Should'nt you play 10turns after the 1st turnset of 20turns by Bucephalus?
in that case it's 11turns , have fun ( after we discuss some things )
@goodsmell: according to my rules, we're playing sets of 20 turns until the IA. And it probably won't take that long since in Sima's game, I managed to play 20 turns in maybe an hour or so, maybe more, maybe less. Anyway, my point is, this is Regent and that was Emperor, and if I can finish pre-IA turnsets in a night on that game, we can easily finish turnsets that quickly here.
I highly recommend you play 10 at a time. If this is going to be a training game there's too much to discuss versus playing 20.
It's your game Choxorn but after seeing the first twenty played by this group I think it is way too much. As well, not to be too rough on you, but considering I followed you in Sima's game last time I have to say both of your 20 turn turnsets were not very focused. If it's only taking you an hour to play twenty turns then I think you're not thinking things all the way through. Just my pennies worth.
It's your game Choxorn but after seeing the first twenty played by this group I think it is way too much. As well, not to be too rough on you, but considering I followed you in Sima's game last time I have to say both of your 20 turn turnsets were not very focused. If it's only taking you an hour to play twenty turns then I think you're not thinking things all the way through. Just my pennies worth.
Bad plan. The AA is the difference between a good game and a bad one. Do you know your exact worker moves for the next ten turns? I haven't seen word one on your plan for the next ten turns let alone twenty.choxorn said:
If you want to play twenty I'd suggest you attempt a SP Regent game on your own and see how quickly you can play and win. I don't think the objective here is speed but more about learning. If I'm wrong on that I'll back off and you guys can play the game as you see fit. Please let me know whether we should stick around and help train or whether you guys want to just play it out.
goodsmell
Psychonaturalist
Choxorn it's really your choice right , but 20 turns it's too much especialy it's a training game . let's play a 10turns more helpful , even if we'll start play faster we won't finish it in the next week , I think we will finish it soon if we will play 20 turns withought thinking about 10turns at least . ( finish by be defeated ) .
Bucephalus
Shooting from the lip....
Whomp said:
I've already learned stuff; I'd like you to stick around.
lurker's comment: Chox: are you familiar with the principles of a Training game?
Since the goal is to learn and learning can't be done without showing what went wrong and what went right the game goes slowly. That gives the trainers time to explain and the trainees time to let it sink in.
For the same reason, training games have a small amount of turns (5 to 10) per player; so the trainings are cut into bite-size lumps. It's no use playing too many turns as the game will be changed too dramaticcaly for the trainees to learn anything. With 5 to 10 turns there is a difference in the game, but not too big a difference to become not understandable.
So: it's better in a training game to play around 5 upto 10 turns (max) and take your time between plays to discuss what happened.
Since the goal is to learn and learning can't be done without showing what went wrong and what went right the game goes slowly. That gives the trainers time to explain and the trainees time to let it sink in.
For the same reason, training games have a small amount of turns (5 to 10) per player; so the trainings are cut into bite-size lumps. It's no use playing too many turns as the game will be changed too dramaticcaly for the trainees to learn anything. With 5 to 10 turns there is a difference in the game, but not too big a difference to become not understandable.
So: it's better in a training game to play around 5 upto 10 turns (max) and take your time between plays to discuss what happened.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
lurker's comment: Choxorn, Would you want a new surgeon operating on you and having his instructor telling him what he did wrong after closing up the incision?Rik Meleet said:lurker's comment:
So: it's better in a training game to play around 5 upto 10 turns (max) and take your time between plays to discuss what happened.
Training games move much more slowly than other types, but what you learn will enable you to make faster, better decisions on your own in future games. The object here is not to finish the game quickly or to get to your favorite era (cavs or railroads maybe?). The idea is to learn to make sound decisions in the early game which will affect how well the rest of the game plays out.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
If I may be so bold, I'd like to add a little perspective to this "Training Game Spamfest".
If you surf back a bit (or sort the SGs by post count or read-count) you'll find "GK2 - The Training Day Experiment". I was fortunate enough to be one of the original students in that game. Rik remembers me as I was then... a hopeless, Regent level builder. ('twas true, I swear.)
In that game I learned a lot from my instructors. I also learned that you can learn a LOT about this game by playing SGs.... even if the game isn't a "Training" Game.
This is not about "instructors teaching". It's about "students learning". And "learning how to learn". Which is much more powerful than the initial knowledge gained in the initial learning.
One of the ways SGs improve your game is that you get to see the insights of other players. One player will see something another doesn't. And you benefit most from this if you take frequent breaks to examine (and re-examine) the game. As a team, you will see opportunities you might have otherwise missed.
If you dig up Bede's Celtic spaceshot game you will see Bede and me playing off each others' strengths... often to great effect. Bede engineered a Monarchy beeline that was very powerful for us. You'll see me pull of a rather audacious invasion that had the good monk a little nervous. You'll also see poor harriet in the mix... trying desperately to hand off a well-managed empire to that master micro-manager... all the while trying to slug her way through the tactical problems she inherited from me...
...and you'll see how we all benefitted from the perspective of others.
...and that shared perspective is stronger when it is checked frequently; by playing 10-turn turnsets.
That's my $0.02.
If you surf back a bit (or sort the SGs by post count or read-count) you'll find "GK2 - The Training Day Experiment". I was fortunate enough to be one of the original students in that game. Rik remembers me as I was then... a hopeless, Regent level builder. ('twas true, I swear.)
In that game I learned a lot from my instructors. I also learned that you can learn a LOT about this game by playing SGs.... even if the game isn't a "Training" Game.
This is not about "instructors teaching". It's about "students learning". And "learning how to learn". Which is much more powerful than the initial knowledge gained in the initial learning.
One of the ways SGs improve your game is that you get to see the insights of other players. One player will see something another doesn't. And you benefit most from this if you take frequent breaks to examine (and re-examine) the game. As a team, you will see opportunities you might have otherwise missed.
If you dig up Bede's Celtic spaceshot game you will see Bede and me playing off each others' strengths... often to great effect. Bede engineered a Monarchy beeline that was very powerful for us. You'll see me pull of a rather audacious invasion that had the good monk a little nervous. You'll also see poor harriet in the mix... trying desperately to hand off a well-managed empire to that master micro-manager... all the while trying to slug her way through the tactical problems she inherited from me...
...and you'll see how we all benefitted from the perspective of others.
...and that shared perspective is stronger when it is checked frequently; by playing 10-turn turnsets.
That's my $0.02.
SimpleMonkey
King
lurker's comment: All I can add to the sage advice above is that it's quite mistaken to think that not much happens in those early AA turns. Quite a lot happens, acutally. I'd advise 5 turn sets with lots of discussion, if you really want max benefit.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
lurker's comment: What Scout is too modest to mention is that he began as a Regent-level trainee and, before the game was over, he became one of the trainers. I learned a lot from reading that thread over a year ago. Here's the link. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=81351&pp=40scoutsout said:
I was the only trainee in this DemiGod game, barely being a Monarch player at that time. If you read it, you'll see my endless questions and some very useful answers. I'd sometimes stop after only 3 or 4 turns to ask questions. Here's the link. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=140887scoutsout said:
lurker's comment:gmaharriet said:lurker's comment: Choxorn, Would you want a new surgeon operating on you and having his instructor telling him what he did wrong after closing up the incision?
Well, maybe I'll just play this turnset 21 (to make up for Buce's incompetence
). I can't mess up too badly 
, and 11 turns will probably be boring at this point in the game.Choxorn do not do the rolleyes thing. That's really not cool. You are not endearing yourself to anyone by doing that.choxorn said:
Well, maybe I'll just play this turnset 21 (to make up for Buce's incompetence
As far as the turns go, do what you will Choxorn. I will not evaluate the turns so if someone else wants to do it that's fine. I'm disappointed you aren't understanding what's needed to help improve your skills but I suppose that's too boring. Honestly I'm not sure why 10 turns isn't already done since you've been up for days.choxorn said:I can't mess up too badly
goodsmell
Psychonaturalist
I think and I'm very sure that choxorn don't want anymore training SG , he wants to play a real SG . I think he should'nt even open this one , or at least name it withouth "training".
because people like Whomp came to help with improving our skills , but choxorn don't want it anymore .
Choxorn , I advice you to open a new one thread with SG game , not training !
but leave this one maybe there are some who wants to improve his skills
*open the new SG with finished Variant , without any voting for details, etc.
because people like Whomp came to help with improving our skills , but choxorn don't want it anymore .
Choxorn , I advice you to open a new one thread with SG game , not training !
but leave this one maybe there are some who wants to improve his skills
*open the new SG with finished Variant , without any voting for details, etc.
SimpleMonkey
King
lurker's comment: I would encourage you all to proceed. Up until now there has been a lot of beneficial advice and discussion here. But I am not the boss, just a monkey hanging out in the kitchen making snacks.
Similar threads
