choxorn 01: Low level training game

[Whomp]

goodsmell who's opening 20 would you use and why? other than Scout's though he didn't tell us who the AI are either.

 

[Bucephalus]

Does anyone know how to find this out?

Press F10?

 

[Abegweit]

I prefer to head on an angle either SW/SE/NW/NE using hills and mountains to find the other civs based on where I'm at on the minimap. A second warrior can either head the other direction and/or scout out new city sites.

I am sorry, Whomp, but this is simply wrong. Explore in straight lines. As an example, consider moving through grasslands (similar considerations apply to other terrain). A move along a cardinal will reveal 5 new tiles while a a diagonal will only get you 3. If you want to go diagonally, zigzag. Moving east-east-north-north gets you to the same location as moving north-east four times. However it reveals many more tiles. The diagonal move gets you twelve and the zigzag gets you (I think I counted right) nineteen.

Cardinal directions are simply so much more powerful that even a diagonal move onto a mountain is usually a bad idea. You will get more revealed that turn, but nothing shows up on the following one. Meanwhile you have moved off the line, messing up your surveying.

 

[Whomp]

Press F10?

Good. Can you tell us who were up against. I'd like to know their opening traits and techs to see what were up against.

Thanks abegweit. You guys do what abegweit said. He's right. My bad.

 

[Bucephalus]

Good. Can you tell us who were up against. I'd like to know their opening traits and techs to see what were up against.

Mongols; Indians; Koreans; Arabs; Aztecs; Chinese; Spanish.

 

[jclast]

I vot for Bucephalus's save. He got an early granary, irrigated the wheat, and seemed to do a fair bit of exploring.

 

[goodsmell]

I'll vote for one who is close for settler factory , then we will build our army in our new
cities . But guys , does irrigating wheat is enough for settler factory ? maybe cattle would be more usefull after all ?

 

[Whomp]

It looks like it's 3-0 for Bucephalus so far. (jclast and goodsmell and I presume he'd suggest his own start)


The irrigated wheat should be enough for 5fpt. The limiting factor in a 4 turn settler pump is food.
From one of my spoiler posts on settler factories....

I'd prefer to have the city go from pop 4 to 6 every 4 turns with a settler factory rather than at pop 4 to 2 or 5 to 3. Unless there's a shield intensive/high food site going from 5 to 3 can be a bit more difficult to get 4 turn settlers out.
Here's the math..
At pop 4 the city needs 5fpt and 6 shields to make this work. It would have12s in the bin when it grows to pop 5 and we get 2 added on when the citizen is added on the IT for a total of 14s.
At pop 5 the player needs to move the citizen off the forest to a bg (mined or not) for 2 more turns generating 14s again. On growth to 6 the citizen again moves to the forest and the settler pops with exactly 30 shields and the process starts again from pop 4 to 6.

 

[The 777 Hoax]

Oh geez I forgot all about this! I'll post my turnset in a few minutes...

 

[The 777 Hoax]

Sorry about being the last one, guys. At least it was inside 45 hours.

Turn 1: Carthage settled, warrior in 5 turns. Pottery in 24

Turn 2: Worker roads.

Turn 3: zzz

Turn 4: worker irrigates.

Turn 5: warrior built, goes exploring to SW.

Turn 6: worker roads.

Turn 7: worker irrigates.

Turn 8: another warrior is built, goes exploring to NE.

Turn 9: worker roads, warriors explore.

Turn 10: zzz

Turn 11: worker mines.

Turn 12: warrior is built, settler in 10 turns.

Turn 13: zzz

Turn 14: zzz

Turn 15: Warrior pops goody hut, gets ceremonial burial!!

Turn 16: Settler will be done in 4 turns due to pop. growth and mining.

Turn 17: Oopsie, civil disorder.

Turn 18: pottery discovered, bronze working in 24 turns.

Turn 19: zzz

Turn 20: settler built

 

[choxorn]

1NW of the worker , is'nt it BG ?I never settle on BG's I settle near them .

It's a Plains square.
@All: I tend to build roads first to get to my first few cities, then start mining/irrigating after I build another worker or two.
P.S.
could scout and cody post screenies? it would help us compare games.
P.P.S. Will post dotmap soon.

 

[Whomp]

@All: I tend to build roads first to get to my first few cities, then start mining/irrigating after I build another worker or two.

Bad habit and we will stop that right here. It's really not that important to get roads to new cities. It's more important to make developments and crank up the capital. The settler will get there in due time.

 

[scoutsout]

could scout and cody post screenies? it would help us compare games.

I can't speak for cody, but here's a screenshot of the capitol:



Some notes on this screenshot:

• The 4th citizen (working the irrigated floodplain) is there to show the team where you get that 5th food per turn.
• If I were actually playing this, I would not have the citizen working the irrigated floodplain. Working the unimproved BG gets the warrior in 2, and doesn't affect growth. The 5th citizen will work the floodplain, and the town will not be permitted to drop below pop5 while the city is used as a settler pump in despotism.
• For the classic 4 turn settler pump, you need
  1. A granary
  2. 5 surplus food per turn
  3. 30 shields in 4 turns
  4. 5 citizens and a (preferably) full granary at the beginning of the settler build queue
• So to get this settler pump up and running, one of the workers will start improving a BG immediately. The other will road the Floodplain, then cross the river to the other FP, road that, and go to the BG S of the city center without wasting any worker moves.
• After improving that BG, the worker could go back to the roaded grass that we chopped the forest on. Though it appears to waste a worker move, it gets him back on the other side of the river without wasting a travel turn.
• First settler could be sent NW, to claim Furs.
• Note that when the worker finishes roading that second FP, you'll have a nice westward road to travel on.
• The worker standing in the capitiol will improve the 2 BGs E and E-SE of the city.
• After improving both BGs, its going to the cow, to start improving the 3rd city site.

The single best way to improve your game is to pay attention to your worker moves. Workers are the single most important unit in the game. You have one at 4000 B.C., and you will have them when you launch a spaceship to Alpha Centauri. Consider this carefully, and you are on your way to improving your game.

 

[Whomp]

OK Choxorn how about a lineup and a team decision on whose save to use. Right now we are 3-0 for Bucephalus.

For Cody....

Spoiler :

Cody I'm not sure which tiles you were working but pottery in 18 seems awfully long. Were you working and developing the commerce tiles? On turn 4 you said you irrigated. What did you irrigate? Do you have civassist or mapstat? Either of these programs will help you avoid disorder. Try to give us a picture and some detail for your next turnset. Good to have you running with the Cool Cats.

 

[Bucephalus]

For the classic 4 turn settler pump, you need

1. A granary
2. 5 surplus food per turn
3. 30 shields in 4 turns
4. 5 citizens and a (preferably) full granary at the beginning of the settler build queue.

1. 
   
   Hmm. Try as I might I can't see a 4 turn settler pump in Carthage; I believe it to be only capable of 5 turns.

 

[Abegweit]

There are many different kinds of settler factories. The most common one requires 4 turns of 6, 7, 8 and 9 shields for a total of 30 and +5 food on each one of those turns. This can be done on this site.

The most common SF starts at size 4 and generates 6 shields the first round, then 8, 7 and 9 on the subsequent ones. Really rich locations can do the same thing starting at size 3. A SF can't start at size 4 here because it's not rich enough. It will only generate 5, 7, 6 and 8. Four short.

Well. If something richer than normal can start lower, what should you do with something poorer than normal?

 

[Bucephalus]

There are many different kinds of settler factories. The most common one requires 4 turns of 6, 7, 8 and 9 shields for a total of 30 and +5 food on each one of those turns. This can be done on this site.

Could you please demonstrate this?

 

[Abegweit]

We can't get enough shields if we start at size four. So how can we get more?

 

[Bucephalus]

We can't get enough shields if we start at size four. So how can we get more?

By starting at size 5? I hadn't considered that.

 

[Abegweit]

There are settler factories which start at any size from 3 to 5. And don't forget the half sizes either. E.g. those that start when the city is ready to grow.

If you start at size 5, the city must be on a river (or have an aqueduct, I suppose) because in order to get the extra shields it must be able to grow to size 7 for a tiny moment in the inter-turn.