Cities in Development (Obsolete)

[zwei833]

Mod list in the screenshot.

Spoiler :

Bug: I found a colony city, but can't purchase building nor tile in it, instead, there is a annex city button.

Spoiler :

P.S. with v16, the leveis works well, finally.

 

[Chrisy15]

Blast Furnace - unlocked at Industrialisation/Combustion
Requires a source of Iron and Coal in the empire
Yields +1 production from Iron and Coal in all cities
Yields a Steel resource for every Iron and Coal resource.

Steel would then be a resource to be used for some late-game buildings (Broadcast Towers? Skyscrapers?)

Subtle crosspost...

 

[Natan35]

Yeah, steel is required for late game buildings, units, etc. But the same could be said about wood. Civilization doesn't have a wood resource for a reason: forests(which are made of wood, usually) provide production. Same goes for iron and stuff. There are some things(such as swordsman) who require resources in order to represent a certain rule the resource had in history. Also, the whole conversion idea would simply make some resources more valuable from others.

Plus, wonders don't increase crime but amphitheaters do?
Some suggestions:

1. Make crimes increase with progress the player\ city made in the respective subject: vandalism should increase with SPs, corruption should increase when your treasury gets too big, theft should increase with each building produced, etc... This would serve your goal of preventing snowballing much more than making buildings simply unworthy of building(come now, 3 crime points from a building yielding 1 culture?! You should notice how crime shapes the game, because from my experience thus far it makes some strategies almost useless...)
2. Wonders should increase crime. I get the feeling that the great wall is visited much more often than a public school, and it also attracts much more attention.
3. Certain events reducing crime? I'd imagine that some, such as WLtKDs and GEs should do so...
4. Shouldn't high loyalty decrease crime? Look at the soviet union, for example.
5. You said crime replaces maintenance, but it applies to(nearly) all buildings, including those which didn't have it before. With sovereignty (or otherwise), will there be a certain way of reducing the crime that such buildings(markets, banks, etc.) Provide while also reducing the profits they provide?
6. Shouldn't conquering cities cause certain crimes(mainly treason, abduction, violence, and... The rest ) to increase? You might point out loyalty's rule, but there's much overlap in this area(or at least, there supposed to be much overlap).

 

[Chrisy15]

Um, JFD, I'm not sure my empire is selling any DVDs in 1000 BC (read: It's all very nice that there are custom titles for the WhosWinning popups, but you should probably make them era-specific)

 

[Kesler]

I believe the DVDs come with vanilla civ

 

[Chrisy15]

No, vanilla didn't have a WhosWinning for culture output, just "Most Progressive" for policy count.

Been thinking about reworking the resources, but I'm struggling to come up with anything that would improve the game. The issue is that adding Steel would mean that it would also have to be availiable in the early game (like at Steel, for example), and it would just make the already weak Longswordsman more expensive to produce.

 

[TranquilSilence]

No, vanilla didn't have a WhosWinning for culture output, just "Most Progressive" for policy count.

Been thinking about reworking the resources, but I'm struggling to come up with anything that would improve the game. The issue is that adding Steel would mean that it would also have to be availiable in the early game (like at Steel, for example), and it would just make the already weak Longswordsman more expensive to produce.

Couldn't you get around this by making the Longswordsman buildable with Iron, however if you have access to Steel they gain additional combat strength or something - as you can source better weapons and armour?

There is a mod that adds late game uses for Horses and Iron but IIRC it is very outdated, so I do like the idea of some JFD mod providing them - I guess art is an issue in that case though.

 

[Chrisy15]

Couldn't you get around this by making the Longswordsman buildable with Iron, however if you have access to Steel they gain additional combat strength or something - as you can source better weapons and armour?

I was thinking about this, but I don't know it's possible.

One idea was that if you had your medieval Steel smelter in a city, then units requiring Iron would get a 10% combat bonus if they were built there - that would be feasible.

 

[Kesler]

Or if you could use these resources to invest in business contracts that don't affect other empires. City State contracts perhaps.

I digress however. Just wanted to say that I find adding more techs to the early game does definitely allow one to spend more time building up their Empire before the Exploitive Industrial Era. An improvement in my book. That being said, I'm drowning in things to build. Need to raise an Army to fend off Babylonian land incursions, generate a steady economy, create more production to build things faster, settle more cities before the renaissance to protect my sovereign land, and build the appropriate buildings in each new city to build National's.

The Medieval life isn't an easy one

Also, those bugs I was having earlier? I again forget to copy the overrides

 

[JFD]

The Blast Furnace is a really cool idea, and I'll keep it in mind for Power, I think.

Um, JFD, I'm not sure my empire is selling any DVDs in 1000 BC (read: It's all very nice that there are custom titles for the WhosWinning popups, but you should probably make them era-specific)

Yeah, will do

Yeah, steel is required for late game buildings, units, etc. But the same could be said about wood. Civilization doesn't have a wood resource for a reason: forests(which are made of wood, usually) provide production. Same goes for iron and stuff. There are some things(such as swordsman) who require resources in order to represent a certain rule the resource had in history. Also, the whole conversion idea would simply make some resources more valuable from others.

Plus, wonders don't increase crime but amphitheaters do?
Some suggestions:

1. Make crimes increase with progress the player\ city made in the respective subject: vandalism should increase with SPs, corruption should increase when your treasury gets too big, theft should increase with each building produced, etc... This would serve your goal of preventing snowballing much more than making buildings simply unworthy of building(come now, 3 crime points from a building yielding 1 culture?! You should notice how crime shapes the game, because from my experience thus far it makes some strategies almost useless...)
2. Wonders should increase crime. I get the feeling that the great wall is visited much more often than a public school, and it also attracts much more attention.
3. Certain events reducing crime? I'd imagine that some, such as WLtKDs and GEs should do so...
4. Shouldn't high loyalty decrease crime? Look at the soviet union, for example.
5. You said crime replaces maintenance, but it applies to(nearly) all buildings, including those which didn't have it before. With sovereignty (or otherwise), will there be a certain way of reducing the crime that such buildings(markets, banks, etc.) Provide while also reducing the profits they provide?
6. Shouldn't conquering cities cause certain crimes(mainly treason, abduction, violence, and... The rest ) to increase? You might point out loyalty's rule, but there's much overlap in this area(or at least, there supposed to be much overlap).

Thing is Natan; I want to keep Crimes a linear mechanic, and not introduce complex conditions under which it increases or decreases (because that's for Loyalty, which, being something restricted mostly to conquered Cities and Colonies, is more suited). But I can't deny that it as it stands is poorly balanced, and I do commend that you spoke out (just - why like a Steamer??). I will work on atuning Crimes more according to the strength of Buildings. But with this I worry that Crime will begin to become unimportant.

Therefore, I was considering having Specialists produce Crime in some manner. Specialists appear to me to be one area in which there is no real trade off, once you can support them (and I'm all about eliminating the primacy of the opportunity cost ). But this is a big change, and it is undeniably slated toward Tall (as Health will be), and I can't recall who wins the Tall vs. Wide debate. I wouldn't want to punish Tall too much. So, some feedback would be great on this, but I'll also try to release a test version with some changes to Crime's distribution so that this can be tested. Most importantly, too, Specialists don't give me as much of a conceptual dissonance when they produce Crime - I can't escape the instinct to want to eliminate it, even if I should

So, any complaints about Provinces?

 

[Kesler]

Crime is affecting me in my game, tho what we really need is just a lot of people on hand to test Crime. It in itself adds micro management, and the less managing we make it, the less of point there is to having it other then flavor purposes.

I think Tall wins. Speaking as someone who played Wide, went Tall, then went back to Wide, it's far easier to make a strong core as tall then it is to Wide. Wide, to me, is a gamble. Do it well, and it'll pay off in the later game. Do it poorly, and you may be too crippled to combat more effective Tall Empires.

Need to clear out some Messages JFD. I'll just quickly ask my question here: Do you know of any good books (or internet sources) that cover periods from the Fall of Rome to the 1400's/Fall of Byzantium?

 

[JFD]

I think having Specialists produce Crime could offer something of a strategic element now - I may, of course, be speculating, but it would seem to me you'd normally want to fill out Specialist slots (especially Scientists and Engineers) as soon as you can support them. Having them yield Crime would mean you'd have to think about this first - perhaps you need to set up a Constabulary to ensure those Specialists produce only good new ideas But yea, I'll have to get it tested.

Not really. My historical knowledge is in fanciful snippets, for the most part. Who's got time to read for leisure?

 

[Kafkakama]

Hi, I want to make sure of some things with the mod:

I am runnning EUI, but I have disabled all modules except for Notification Panel. Is there anything special I need to do while copying the support files for EUI into the "Overrides" folder? Currently I have not overwritten anything and my Top Panel looks just like unmodded Civ.

Note: I am also running CP and CBP.

 

[JFD]

If you have only the Notification Panel with EUI, I think you won't need to copy anything from the Override folder. So you should be able to run it without doing anything. Let me know if you run into trouble, however.

 

[Chrisy15]

Wrote a short essay comparing Tall and Wide. Safari crashed just before I posted it :'(
In short, Tall > Wide.

I'm tempted to make a Proof of Concept mod for the resources ideas people have been coming up with - anything anyone wants in?

 

[JFD]

Bah. I would've like to read that, too.

In conclusion, weighting Crimes against Tall won't be, well, too criminal
I'll need a bit of time to think on this. Crimes would still be primarily a consequence of Buildings - Specialists merely lend to this being a consequence of urbanization, and help to relieve some of the burden on buildings. Although I might take this as an opportunity to remove Crimes from Magistrate's Court - High Court, etc.

 

[TheD3rp]

Some feedback with regards to my only complaint about the mod: Barbarians seem to take over way too many cities. I've seen at least eight in my most recent game, including two capitals.

Other than that the mod's been working fine, I haven't been able to try out colonization due to the map I'm playing on being too crowded, but I'm really enjoying the other aspects of it. Great work as usual.

 

[Kesler]

Nothing worse then spending 20 minutes writing a eloquent response, hitting Post... then Fanatics telling you to go back and reload the page. FML.

I too have noticed a complete disinterest in Barb Camps in my game. About 4 camps up against the borders of Civs. One camp is literally surrounded by Portugal territory.

 

[Chrisy15]

Has the Pope been playing with the AI's minds again?..

I'm finding Loyalty easy enough to maintain once the captured city is set up, but far too often it flips a couple of turns after capture. Half the problem is that the low pop, but gold focus (thanks puppets) leads to Organised Crime breaking out; which lowers Loyalty; which causes resistance; which stops infrastructure; which leads to flipping. An easy way to counter this would be to make military near the city improve loyalty as well as a garrison. That also makes a lot more sense.

As for Tall vs Wide, look up FilthyRobot'a Tradition vs Liberty guide. Gives a nice overview of the pros and cons of both.

 

[JFD]

Any thoughts on what Organized Crime might do, if neither increased Loyalty nor increased Crimes works well? Just as an aside.

I don't want to add to the processing of units near to a city. But I'll think of an alternative.

I won't be working on CID for a bit, however. I need a break from it, its bugs, and I want to turn to getting Rise to Power (Piety, Mercenaries and Epithets) done. Otherwise, I'll never get to Sovereignty... An opportunity for you guys to give further balance feedback anyway, now that all (most ) of the bugs are - hopefully - out of the way. Some ideas for how you'd like to see Power manifest would be great, too.