Cities in Development (Obsolete)

[Kesler]

Seriously, though, from this point forward, if I can't recreate an issue with EUI, I'm just going to have to ignore it - too frustrating for a hobby, when I don't even like EUI.

Personally, if you managed to modify the top panel (so that it displays the new buttons and options such as Mercs) and the tooltip (so that it provided info on UU/B's on the Civ Select and tactical tile info), I would willingly stop using EUI. Those are the two main features that keep me using it. Of course, the community opinion matters far more then just mine.

I must applaud your willingness to attempt compatibility with so much. It means a lot.

 

[Chrisy15]

Personally, if you managed to modify the top panel (so that it displays the new buttons and options such as Mercs) and the tooltip (so that it provided info on UU/B's on the Civ Select and tactical tile info), I would willingly stop using EUI. Those are the two main features that keep me using it. Of course, the community opinion matters far more then just mine.

I must applaud your willingness to attempt compatibility with so much. It means a lot.

I'd second this, although I'd extend it to showing all of the improved <Help> texts, and the functionality of the CityBanners.

JFDUI, anyone?

 

[Kesler]

Jiffy VisionTM

 

[sss64sss]

Say, on the wiki, I noticed a Pyramid of the Moon wonder. Mind if I ask what the affects are (or are they a surprise?)

 

[Dallandra]

Jml, I had the wrong files copied over.

Spoiler :

AssignStartingPlots.lua

Alright, try this update: v21.
If that doesn't work, EUI is a Stunfisk.
(Notification Panel still is a bit bugged, but I really don't think this is me)

I swear, if the Buddha were a modder, he would not have achieved enlightenment. <- Master's thesis right there.

Seriously, though, from this point forward, if I can't recreate an issue with EUI, I'm just going to have to ignore it - too frustrating for a hobby, when I don't even like EUI.

Haha, thank you, I'll give it a try soon. The continued support up to this point is really appreciated and I think it says a lot that so many people are trying to figure out these bugs and report them because they want to play your mods with all these other ones. Signs of quality work right there.

Edit: Also thanks for the link to the logging setup, I just figured that was on by default, my bad!

 

[JFD]

Haha, thank you, I'll give it a try soon. The continued support up to this point is really appreciated and I think it says a lot that so many people are trying to figure out these bugs and report them because they want to play your mods with all these other ones. Signs of quality work right there.

Edit: Also thanks for the link to the logging setup, I just figured that was on by default, my bad!

Hopefully it works out now

Say, on the wiki, I noticed a Pyramid of the Moon wonder. Mind if I ask what the affects are (or are they a surprise?)

That's a Sovereignty wonder, and I haven't yet determined what it does (it's original effect - Prestige from puppet cities - is obsolete for how Sov. has developed).



Generally, I'm still trying to figure how to approach Crimes. I'm currently leaning on the idea of making Crime not tied to a specific Building - because trying to balance this according to the value of the Building has been somewhat difficult - but rather to the number of Buildings in general, at a value of each Building producing 0.2 Crime (or whatever works). Crime would then co-exist alongside Maintenance, which I admit would offset some dissonance I have over the removal of Maintenance (the concept is too ingrained in my mind - plus, anything could be a source of Crime - Heretical Walls, Granaries that Abduct people, etc.), and would perhaps be overall easier to balance. Perhaps from this, Organized Crime could give hard Crime to specific Buildings, tied to the type (e.g. if Mafia is in the city, they make Mints and Markets yield 1 Crime) - which sounds kind of cool to me. But the challenge would of course be balancing Crime viz. Maintenance, seeing as both would merely compound negatively.
(I did think of tying Crime to Pop., but that would just be rehashing Disease and Disloyalty, so I don't want to take that approach (probably tie to Pop still though: 0.1 per Building x Pop))
---Or maybe I'm overthinking Natan's criticism



I want to run some AI games to see what this looks like in the late-game, but some conceptual feedback would be appreciated. I will also open this up for testing in the next update, too.

Meantime, here's v22:

• 
  Misc:
• Move Capital compatibility appears to work.
• Fixed a Civilopedia issue when assessing for derivative civs.
• Saxony UA works with Court of Chancery. Don't remember who reported this, but you have the latest patch of the game?
  Claims:
• You can no longer push claims on City-States which do not have a Capital but which are somehow still alive.
• Disabling Claims will correctly disable the ability to push Claims on CSs.
• Claimed City-States will no longer be considered Occupied - this will help Loyalty, too. You'll still be prompted to either Puppet or Annex it, but Annexing won't actually have the penalties it normally does (text reflects this).
• Fixed a few database issues with disabling Claims (Westminster and Colonist being disabled with Claims - causing CTD. I guess no one plays without Claims).
• Added warning to the Claims Tooltip that you cannot push a Claim on a City-State with whom you are at war.
  Colonies:
• Only Great Generals may now establish Fort Colonies, and this is done via a separate button. Worker Fort Colonies may be enabled in the user settings, and are unchanged.
• Therefore, Forts (except with the above setting enabled) and Citadels can no longer be built outside your borders.
  Provinces:
• Levies spawned are now defined in 'JFD_Province_BuildingClassRequired' table. New eras can be added to that. If a new era doesn't have support, it will default to a Spearman instead of screwing everything up.
• Fixed an issue with 'The Great Ball' event notification text.
• Capitals now begin at the highest level of Province.
• Manors and Mansions no longer yield Culture.
• Fixed an issue wherein the bombard range for Provinces upgraded via Great Magistrate would not update correctly.
• Fixed an issue wherein most non-Unique Province ruler titles (only applicable to Events) did not work.
  Crimes:
• Fixed an issue wherein City-States could build the Tower of London.

I speculate that the Province-level change to the Capital might help offset the ease of capturing low-level Provinces, but will need tested feedback on whether this is true. If not, I'll think about the issue more.

 

[Dallandra]

Hopefully it works out now

I'm sad to report that it did not fix the issue.
I'll just assume that it's because your support is for the newer EUI version, which CBP is still lacking even in the 1.29 beta, and that just breaks the city view at some point. Using EUI 1.28 doesn't work obviously since CBP and its compatibility files just screw with that as well and break it to the point where I don't even get to where I can settle.

I'll add the (now working, yay!) log files anyway, maybe they do contain something else that might screw with it. I don't think anything else I'm using does though, but who knows.

@Crime stuff; I won't comment on that for now, I feel like I added a lot of doubt to it already previously.

 

[jdmr]

In the User Settings it says that it is not recommended to use E&D with Claims... Is that still correct or is it from an older version?

Thanks.

 

[JFD]

In the User Settings it says that it is not recommended to use E&D with Claims... Is that still correct or is it from an older version?

Thanks.

No, I guess I just worded it poorly. It's not recommended to disable the option if you aren't using E&D. It is ideal to use E&D with this mod.

I'm sad to report that it did not fix the issue.
I'll just assume that it's because your support is for the newer EUI version, which CBP is still lacking even in the 1.29 beta, and that just breaks the city view at some point. Using EUI 1.28 doesn't work obviously since CBP and its compatibility files just screw with that as well and break it to the point where I don't even get to where I can settle.

I'll add the (now working, yay!) log files anyway, maybe they do contain something else that might screw with it. I don't think anything else I'm using does though, but who knows.

Ok, so I've added the 1.27 EUI support files into the mod, and for now, these appear to work with CBP's EUI. Just copy these over instead of the ones in the Enhanced User Interface folder (will add to OP instructions).

But this is a temporary solution, and I strongly urge anyone that wants to continue using both EUI and CID to prod Gazebo into updating his EUI support to 1.28, and to encourage bc1 to consider other mods before overhauling some of EUI's most core files (the tooltips and utilities files being overhauled are what has caused this rigmarole) - I mean, he won't, but it sounds good to say it When Health and Happiness is ready to be released, I more than likely will not be willing to add three times the support I need to. Or maybe I will, I dunno. But for now on, I won't be updating my EUI support until Gazebo does the same, or if using the latest version of EUI with older EUI support files breaks things (as in this case).

Download (no version number change, as I figure most people haven't gotten to 22 yet).

 

[Wario Mario]

I doubt my opinion carries much weight, but I'm honestly a fan of crimes staying (fairly) close to the way they are.

I like the idea that you can't beat crime completely. In real life, there isn't always that much that can be done about it. I also massively prefer it to the maintenance system (I will go on record to say I HATE HATE HATE the building maintenance system). Crime is much more fluid, and I honestly think that locking crime to a set amount per building would not only harm crime's fluidity, it would make players think of crime in terms of "how few buildings can I get away with" rather than "what buildings are important to me"? I also think that the amount of crime allows for balancing buildings well - for example you or other modders could make a powerful building but balance it with high crime.

Question: do "free" buildings (such as those spawned by wonders) have zero crime as a non-CiD building would have zero maintenance?

Other than the role-playing flaw of having a courthouse actually produce crime (what, are all my judges corrupt? ) and the instant terrorism that happens a lot on newly founded or near-always on captured cities, crime pretty much rocks the way it is IMO .

 

[JFD]

Appreciate the feedback, and I can definitely agree with your position. I'll let others respond first before making any final decisions.

Free Buildings are Crime-free, yes, except, of course, those that still have maintenance. A Shrine spawned from Stonehenge in Piety, for instance, will produce no Crime (because Stonehenge is always watching)

Mayhaps I'll make Magistrate's Courts et al. have Maintenance, like other Production-focused Buildings anyway, and make the XP buildings yield Crime to compensate. So, I'd stick with re-balancing Crimes according to the value of the Building in the next update, but what about the idea to have Specialists yield Crime? Maybe Great Works, too? (to compensate for that without GWs, Culture Buildings are not worth exponentially increasing Crime rates, as they all just yield 1 Culture) What are your thoughts on that one?

Instant Terrorism, as Grand Duke Chrisy cogently pointed out, seems to be a miscalculation on my part to factor that Cities in resistance don't produce anything but Food.

 

[Wario Mario]

Mayhaps I'll make Magistrate's Courts et al. have Maintenance, like other Production-focused Buildings anyway, and make the XP buildings yield Crime to compensate. So, I'd stick with re-balancing Crimes according to the value of the Building in the next update, but what about the idea to have Specialists yield Crime? Maybe Great Works, too? (to compensate for that without GWs, Culture Buildings are not worth exponentially increasing Crime rates, as they all just yield 1 Culture) What are your thoughts on that one?

Specialist crime is an interesting idea. Right now a very large city is usually better off working all its specialist slots then to actually work more than a few tiles (I've seen cities forgoing even great person improvements for the sake of specialists, though that may say more about the city governor than specialists ). I will mention that in CBP Specialists yield unhappiness, and I would hope that the crime yield would replace the unhappiness yield (just as building crime replaces maintenance) Of course if Treason is high enough you might end up with more unhappiness.

Could specialists lower crime in their specific area (while also raising overall crime)? Such as a city filled with scientists might be overrun with crime in other areas, but have near zero fraud. This would add to the idea of "moving" crime to areas where it doesn't hurt as much, and would allow you to fight specific kinds of crime (but may actually cause others).

Great work crime is an interesting idea as well. I suppose high tourist areas would need more security, and since high-level culture buildings don't actually yield more culture it makes gameplay since to shift it to the works themselves. I'd just want to avoid punishing someone too harshly for having lots of great works.

 

[Chrisy15]

Gonna be honest, I probably just wasn't paying attention when I built the Court of Chancery

I have to say, you're doing an amazing job with Crimes - just deciding how the percentages will pan out seems like a great feat!

Have you considered making specific buildings yield specific Crimes? Not only will this make a bit more sense (RIP Heretical Walls), but it would also solve issues that I sometimes find when playing Liberty. Because my new Liberty city will be producing more buildings than it is growing, building things like Shrines and Monuments can cause Violence to rise to the point where I begin to lose 1 Food. This usually causes the city to start starving until I reallocate some dudes... Just because fights are starting out over who is the most pious, or who can stare at a monument the most.

This may lead to certain Crimes never becoming very important, but at least it will make more sense, and be more controllable.

 

[Curns]

I haven't had much time to play lately, but a bit of feedback on what I've found so far.

Crimes: I agree with the above. I like the way crimes in general work atm as a replacement for maintenance. It would be good to have more buildings that reduce specific crimes, but it is hard to think of how to do this without introducing heaps of new building types.

I like the idea to change of the magistrates court back to maintenance. Not so sure about having specialist yield crime, but how about improvements? Trading posts, Towns etc would be big sources of crime IRL. This also has good synergy with provinces - you want to build and grow your TP's into towns to upgrade your city, but at a cost of increased crime.

Great Works yielding crime is a great idea. How about a National Vault NW which negates the crime from GW stored in it, but at the expense of it's Tourism? Ie storing it away securely, away from public view. Could even have a World Wonder which eliminates crime from all GW in the city/empire, not sure of the top of my head what could suit but i''l keep thinking about it.

Provinces: so far I've found them to be a bit underwhelming. They require a lot of buildings to be built in the city to upgrade it, most of which I wouldn't build in every city. Apart from my capital I haven't upgraded any city by building, only with Great Magistrates. How about having more buildings as pre-reqs to upgrade, but require only a certain number of them be built. Eg have 10 different Buildings in the list and you have to build any 6 of them. This still allows for city specialisation whilst still having a large infrastructure in the city.

I've got a few other ideas, but I need to think them through a bit more.

 

[Tarmont]

Maybe Policy Trees could reduce different crimes? Like Commerce policies decrease Corruption, Rationalism decreases that Science one, Liberty decreases Treason, etc...

 

[eddiet]

No, I guess I just worded it poorly. It's not recommended to disable the option if you aren't using E&D. It is ideal to use E&D with this mod.

Ok, so I've added the 1.27 EUI support files into the mod, and for now, these appear to work with CBP's EUI. Just copy these over instead of the ones in the Enhanced User Interface folder (will add to OP instructions).

But this is a temporary solution, and I strongly urge anyone that wants to continue using both EUI and CID to prod Gazebo into updating his EUI support to 1.28, and to encourage bc1 to consider other mods before overhauling some of EUI's most core files (the tooltips and utilities files being overhauled are what has caused this rigmarole) - I mean, he won't, but it sounds good to say it When Health and Happiness is ready to be released, I more than likely will not be willing to add three times the support I need to. Or maybe I will, I dunno. But for now on, I won't be updating my EUI support until Gazebo does the same, or if using the latest version of EUI with older EUI support files breaks things (as in this case).

Download (no version number change, as I figure most people haven't gotten to 22 yet).

Huzzah, it works! Thanks so much.

 

[Kesler]

My experiences with the current version of Crime have been rather good. I have had no problems in my games to register, tho I do want to mention some hypothetical situations.

The only thing I would look out for are situations where you found a new city, or capture one, and the crime is at such a high and unreasonable level (due in part to loyalty) that you't deal with it fast enough without having it cripple you.

Will Sov introduce a way to focus in on certain crimes? Currently, as far as I can understand, the only way to rebalance crime later in the game is to sell a building so that crime as a whole redistributes evenly. Being able to change the way a city fights crime without having to sell buildings would help a lot.

 

[Chrisy15]

My experiences with the current version of Crime have been rather good. I have had no problems in my games to register, tho I do want to mention some hypothetical situations.

The only thing I would look out for are situations where you found a new city, or capture one, and the crime is at such a high and unreasonable level (due in part to loyalty) that you't deal with it fast enough without having it cripple you.

Will Sov introduce a way to focus in on certain crimes? Currently, as far as I can understand, the only way to rebalance crime later in the game is to sell a building so that crime as a whole redistributes evenly. Being able to change the way a city fights crime without having to sell buildings would help a lot.

Maybe having a Police Station would allow you to place a large (50%?) reduction on a crime of your choice? Would certainly provide more reasons to build the Police Station...

 

[Skaz881]

Is it just the Tower of London? Because I've seen city states build other wonders.

 

[AxGrinder]

No, I guess I just worded it poorly. It's not recommended to disable the option if you aren't using E&D. It is ideal to use E&D with this mod.




Ok, so I've added the 1.27 EUI support files into the mod, and for now, these appear to work with CBP's EUI. Just copy these over instead of the ones in the Enhanced User Interface folder (will add to OP instructions).

But this is a temporary solution, and I strongly urge anyone that wants to continue using both EUI and CID to prod Gazebo into updating his EUI support to 1.28, and to encourage bc1 to consider other mods before overhauling some of EUI's most core files (the tooltips and utilities files being overhauled are what has caused this rigmarole) - I mean, he won't, but it sounds good to say it When Health and Happiness is ready to be released, I more than likely will not be willing to add three times the support I need to. Or maybe I will, I dunno. But for now on, I won't be updating my EUI support until Gazebo does the same, or if using the latest version of EUI with older EUI support files breaks things (as in this case).

Download (no version number change, as I figure most people haven't gotten to 22 yet).

Version (22) available for download doesn't appear to have the CBP folder, per the instructions.