City Sprawl

[DioBrando]

People can still have farms in the city, otherwise it would be stupid. Just because a city is expanding does not mean that they can't grow wheat or breed cows. It happens all the time in big cities, at least here in sweden. It's not like as if the WHOLE city radius would be downtown, some of it would be suburbs or the like.

I like improving the town graphics, since they are a bit lame now. But to add penalties would be kinda awkward and unneccesary.

 

[xienwolf]

You really have farms and ranches in the middle of your large cities? I figured Montana was pretty rural overall, and it is very obvious where the cities are growing because all of the farmland gets purchased to turn into housing or storefronts. There are some parks in the middle of the town, and people keep gardens in their yards, but nothing exists which could turn a profit, let alone sustain multiple families. There is 4H and other farming/ranching organizations, but they maintain limited barn facilities within the city to store their animals/harvests for competitions, the actual growth/development is all outside in the main country.

Time spent in Japan showed a little bit of a different trend, in that people maintained community gardens. But still there was nowhere that you were driving along in a city and suddenly came across a rice field or large assortment of animals kept for slaughter. Can't say I've even seen pictures of anything remotely close to a farm within city limits.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

It used to be very common for the center of a town to be common land where those too poor to own their own land could farm or heard their cattle. I guess that this may still be true in some very old European towns that have since grown not cities, although in the US these areas have either been destroyed or changed into parks not meant for farming.

I can imagine the Kuriotates using Vertical Farming in the middle of their super cities.

 

[odalrick]

You are forgetting that most of the people actually live on the tiles that produce the yield.

Only specialists actually live in the city and even then I think you are seriously underestimating how much space farming takes compared to city living.

 

[DioBrando]

It used to be very common for the center of a town to be common land where those too poor to own their own land could farm or heard their cattle. I guess that this may still be true in some very old European towns that have since grown not cities, although in the US these areas have either been destroyed or changed into parks not meant for farming.

I can imagine the Kuriotates using Vertical Farming in the middle of their super cities.

Vertical farming would be a very good solution actually. In Holland, they have large skyscrapers in which they breed pigs.

I, for one, could accept that you made the ordinary tiles into towns, adding graphic for those tiles, but i don't think it should reduce any of the tiles bonuses. Resource tiles, like pigs for example, also shouldn't get any penalties, since there will always be a way to implement a pig farm into a city. Maybe you could just make some new graphics for resource tiles, like a farm surrounded by houses and the likes? Giving the farms a more "urban" look.

 

[Nor'easter]

I like that idea. Tie the ability to use the "Food Slider" for your trade routes to having access to the proper resource. Not sure if there is a decent reason to prevent access to a production slider at all.

Thanks, Xienwolf! I also thought it was a pretty good idea.

You might have seen that I started a new thread on Food from Trade Routes (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=295822), since I didn't want to hijack this one.

 

[xienwolf]

Meh, any thread I make is generally free for hijacking. Just tossing an idea to get some insight on what I am not seeing for myself.

 

[loffenx]

I've also always interpreted the city as more of a center in a larger semi-urban community, the population are working the tiles surounding the city after all, setting up their little "cottages" (not the cottage you bild but that other one that marks a worked but unimproved tile). Graphical changes could be interesting, but I don't really see the need for rule-changes. Farms could change in to farm-villages, graphics-wise, perhaps. But wild ideas are always interesting

 

[Visage Darkskin]

Great thinking out of the box Mr. Xienwolf (and nice interview, by the way. Quantum research + FF code = Real life gateway to Erebus?)
While I find some potential issues with attacking and defending mechanics in the expanded city, it sounds like a very interesting idea overall. I would be especially excited if a larger city would allow for a clearer view of the different improvements/wonders you build in it. I find that so many people spend so much time on building this wonderfully detailed buildings which you add to your cities but are barely able to notice. Especially when you have many buildings and wonders in it.
Regards.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I have seen quaries and agricultural areas in what I'd consider to be city tiles in real life. I also suspect that a farm doesn't really take up all the space that a squad of marines can walk in a year, which would probably be about the size of the American midwest. Let alone the space a phalanxe could walk in 50 years or however time passes in the Civ BCE.
Lots of abstractions as far as the graphics on a strategy game are concerned. If you think this would improve gameplay or immersion, you can try it out, but I don't have the same pet peeve as you in this instance.

edit: This also seems a poor implementation, since when the city expanded and converted the farms it would very likely then proceed to starve itself back down, now lacking the food to sustain itself.

 

[BugReportage]

I think this change should be purely cosmetic with NO effects on anything.
WHY does it have to change things? I don't understand the logic behind that.
I guess my question is? As I pointed out earlier, the palace for a civ can spawn outside a city limit, why can't we do the same for structures in a city?

 

[Caradoc]

If you are planning to allow food to be imported, consider having an automated Worker function to cart it in (works like Fishing Boats).

 

[Tarquelne]

I also suspect that a farm doesn't really take up all the space that a squad of marines can walk in a year, which would probably be about the size of the American midwest.

Please note that a squad of Marines occupies that area, as does a size 1 city.

I think you may be seriously underestimating the size of units and cities in civ. They're rather large: Units, for example, must be large enough to sustain themselves to move 30 tiles/30 years via raising food, keeping equipped and reproducing at a sufficient rate to replace any members lost to accident and age.

The population figures in the Civ manual are obviously misprints. When the manual speaks of "epic" clashes, OTOH, it's not kidding.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

I don't think that the unit itself is reproducing or raising food, at least not in your own territory if you have roads. When Roman generals marched their legions to the borders, did it take them 500 years to get there? Did it take them ten years to cross one farm? No, meaning that the land area a farm takes up is a large area.
In other words, it makes plenty of sense (to me) that a large city can occupy a single tile with tiles nearby having thier own improvements; the map scale can't really reconcile all the different elements represented on it in a logical scale, so why try to impose this one point of logic (big cities being bigger) on it when it has such an odd impact on gameplay?

 

[BugReportage]

Maybe it's not ONE farm. Perhaps it's called a "farmland area" and zoned for MANY farms?

 

[Nikis-Knight]

exactly. So it's no problem to me if there is a colluseum and some slums there as well. 1 tile is big enough to hold the whole city, imo. Tiles are big.

 

[civ_king]

In Holland, they have large skyscrapers in which they breed pigs.

you're joking right?