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Civ 5 Confirmed Features

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by bite, Feb 26, 2010.

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  1. EditorRex

    EditorRex Master of Allusion

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    Suppose you have this arrangement:

    M L L L L M
    M M M M M M

    m m m m m m

    Where M=macemen, L=Longbowmen an m=musketmen.

    The longbowmen have an unfair advantage because of the Range issue. The Musketmen will have to face this field of fire while trying to defeat the Macemen in hand-to-hand combat.

    Personally, I already thought the Musketman was one of the most unfairly weak units in Civ4, relative to other units that were likely to appear during the transitions leading up to and immediately after Gunpowder. In historic battlefields the musket advantage over archers was decisive most of time, in part because of the psychological impact of gunpowder.
     
  2. jahg84

    jahg84 Chieftain

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    Then bring some cannons to this fight too.
     
  3. EditorRex

    EditorRex Master of Allusion

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    Of course. I'd also bring some Knights or Curaissers. (I'm talking Civ4 units. I don't know what they'll all be in Civ5).

    BUT, this isn't a tactics discussion. I'm talking about an issue of realism and game balance. This is a game where the creators have gone to great lengths to create the facsimile of historical realism. They totally undermine this if they give range attacks to archers and not to gunpowder.

    Suggestion on how this could be solved: Reduce range advantage on archer, early seige and early gunpowder units to 1. However, don't treat a ranged offensive attack as a movement, so that an archer could attack an adjacent unit and then either relocate (or swap) OR could remain in place without having given up the advantage for being fortified in the same location for multiple turns. This same formula could continue for higher range units (starting with cannon, modern seige and armored units, but probably not ever greater than 1 for infantry-type gunpowder units. However, beginning with Rifles, these units should have extra attacks per turn.
     
  4. Dunkah

    Dunkah Emperor

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    Currently the muskets are out of range. Since they have a movement of 2 they step forward and then attack the macemen which they are surely more powerful than and you have this:

    M L L L L M
    m m m m m m

    Sure some of the muskets will be hurt... but then again... maybe not. who has the advantage now?

    Also I think to make this argument you need to go one unit for one unit. If there are 5 muskets then there should be 3 macemen and 2 longbows. Play that out and see who wins?
     
  5. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    That matter troubles me too Rex... But here:

    Lets imagine this battlefield in real life: A line of macemen, behind them longbowmen and opposing line of musketmen. Now can you imagine musketmen killing off longbowmen before macemen? No, they won't be able to do that. Now can you imagine longbowmen firing a cloud of arrows on musketmen from behind the macemen? YES!

    Now when it comes to more advanced units like infantry against the same longbowmen and no deadmeat in between them, that's another story. ;)

    P.S.
    Crap I totally forgot! Will you be able to make vassals in civ5??? My guess is not... :sad:
     
  6. bite

    bite Unofficial Civilization Cartographer Moderator

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    Another Update from e3
     
  7. impactblue

    impactblue Chieftain

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    The new tech in between Astronomy and Banking should be Acoustics.
    (Readable in the hi def version of the E3 trailer)
     
  8. Joel E

    Joel E Chieftain

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    First Generation Muskets did not have the range or accuracy of Bows.

    And they take an expert 15-30 seconds to load. any idiot can notch a bow in 2 seconds.

    Close in the baonet and knife are much more deadly than a musket ball at range.
     
  9. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

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    Bite, in the Tech tree, in the newest unnamed section there is also the Acoustics tech, required for building the Sistine Chapel among other things.

    Link to the post with the screenshot here.
     
  10. flaming_iles

    flaming_iles Warlord

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    I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but somebody has recorded the demo from e3, and put it on youtube:

    part 1

    Part 2
     
  11. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    Is there going to be an edition without steam?
     
  12. bite

    bite Unofficial Civilization Cartographer Moderator

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    that is from what was meant to be a closed demo (no filming allowed) so I won't be updating from it

    no
     
  13. nokmirt

    nokmirt Emperor

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    well I talked to my best friend growing up. He tells me he has had no probs with steam. So I will try it out. I probably will have no trouble, just have an old fashioned mind sometimes.
     
  14. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

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    flaming_iles,

    Thanks for the link. I wonder how long it will take before it gets taken down.
     
  15. PeterWimsey

    PeterWimsey Warlord

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    This is a good point. There are, of course, many kinds of bows and many kinds of muskets, but composite recurve bows, for example - as were common in the ancient world and used by groups as disparate as the Romans, the Vikings, and the Mongols, generally had a longer range than did most muskets. In some cases, a significantly longer range. And English longbowmen had a longer range, still.

    It's also important to note that musketmen typically did not fight the way that riflemen due today - even as late as the Napoleonic wars, musketmen would typically only fire one or two volleys at the enemy, and then charge to close with bayonets. Napoleon, in particular, would often charge in column, which meant that only the first couple of ranks could fire their muskets at all, with 80% of the men being unable to do so.

    Of course, the bayonet was critical for these tactics, and there's nothing similar that archers could use. It's probably relevant in this context that archers were actually employed a lot like artillery - they were placed behind knights or pikemen and fired over these troops into the enemy ranks.

    The great advantage that muskets had was that they took very little training to learn how to use. While ancient archers, as well as English longbowmen, took years and years to learn how to accurately shoot their weapons and (and even to develop the strength to pull the bows), peasant conscripts with no previous firearms experience could rapidly be taught to fire muskets to the (low) level of accuracy that could be achieved by the weapon.
     
  16. The Almighty dF

    The Almighty dF Pharaoh

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    Permanently? Never.
    Firaxis themselves have to make the complaint, and by the time they do (if they do), there'll already be 100 other videos uploaded of the same footage.
    That video is already uploaded 17 times under different accounts, apparently.

    Also, even if you won't add the video to the front page, you should add any new info -from- the video.
    It's official updates either way.
     
  17. Mustakrakish

    Mustakrakish In 'Node' We Trust

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    God I'm hooked by that video!
     
  18. The Almighty dF

    The Almighty dF Pharaoh

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    Same.
    Can you make out what Rome's bonus says?
    It's like 25% gold something somthing cities connected directly to the capitol.
    Looks like towns attached to the capitol get a money boost.

    Also, here's hoping Chichen Itza is -useful- this time. I never build it in Civ4.
     
  19. Silverdawn

    Silverdawn Prince

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    This is what I wrote in what I explained several days ago: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9294483&postcount=878

    Glory of Rome (Rome's unique ability)- "25% production towards any building that already exists in the capital"
     
  20. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

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    StoneHenge is confirmed as a wonder. It's in a video on youtube around 2:50 and they mention it by name too.

     
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