Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

[mechaerik]

I personally don't really care so much about Steam as the "deluxe edition" crap, but I still don't like having Civ5 require steam.

That being said, I have just finished making an account for Steam, in order to take advantage of the free Portal offer (free until May 24th).

I'm neutral at this point.

 

[Pyrodraulis]

Holy crap there are alot of topics about Steam right now, both positive and negative. I haven't waded through every single post on each Steam thread but I've read enough to get a general concept of the opinions on both sides and I thought I'd give my own.

I started using Steam back in 2005 whenever I bought a copy of Half-Life 2 and since then I've been using it to this day and on multiple computers. Even a crappy laptop too. After over 4 years I can honestly say that I've never had a problem with it slowing down my computers or frequently tossing pop-ups at me or anything. The only time pop-ups occasionally occur is after starting up Steam or exiting a game that is incorporated into Steam and I personally welcome the pop-ups because most of the time they let me know about really good deals that the service provides and which I take advantage of. Steam is generous when it comes to the prices of most of the games on there, especially during the holidays and weekends.

If anyone would read what I said and reply with something like "well why should there be any pop-ups? I don't like pop-ups getting in the way of my gaming and advertisements are offensive to me!" then I have to say get real. If you think taking about 2 seconds to move your mouse and X out of a pop-up is draining precious time then you may as well scream at anyone who blocks you at Wal-Mart and start spazzing out anytime you get stopped at a red light. And if Steam really did slow down your computer then no offense but you've got a really, really bad computer which would probably fail to run Civ5 anyway. I'll admit my laptop is pretty awful but even it isn't bogged down by Steam whenever I'm running it.

As other people have said, Steam is actually pretty critical to the PC gaming community right now as well as its survival when compared to the rise in console gaming popularity. That's because it provides very simple, fast, and effective means of digital distribution of software, networking and social tools, excellent multiplayer services, achievements across many games for those who like that sort of thing, and much more. Another argument I saw a few times was "well I don't want or need any of that stuff so why should I be forced to download it?". Well with Firaxis taking this approach, many gamers (non-disgruntled and non-irritable gamers) are going to be introduced to a service where the pros heavily outweigh any cons that myself or others could come up with. If anything, people are going to benefit from this greatly and this will also be very good for the success and popularity of Civ5 itself, but to say that Civ5 shouldn't be involved with Steam in any way just because it has features which you have no use for is pretty selfish.

I'm not offended by anyones opinions against Steam. After all this is a discussion board. It's my own opinion that the arguments I've seen made against it are extremely weak and most of them are based on laziness, paranoia, and fear of change. I've studied psychology also and I can tell that some people are arguing just for the arguing and this is usually a result of the need to feel important and involved with a certain majority of people.

Closing statement: Firaxis made their decision and it's final. No online petitions or forum rage is going to change an important decision they've made for the success of their product/franchise and the success of their business so the back and forth bickering is pointless and has no productive value. I can understand why moderators have been closing most of these threads.

 

[Veneke]

Pyrodraulis: I mostly agree with you, but I do have to point out one issue I have with your post,

"No online petitions or forum rage is going to change an important decision they've made for the success of their product/franchise and the success of their business so the back and forth bickering is pointless and has no productive value."

I would find it exceedingly unlikely that a company would ignore a 1-2 million strong online petition, or something of that calibre. While a lot of what you say is true, claiming that we're powerless in this isn't entirely accurate. Rather, there isn't a large enough anti-Steam crowd to have an effect, which is slightly different to what you're saying.

Also, discussion boards are kinda where people who like arguing hang out...

The issue I believe with Steam having no features that are applicable is that the vast majority of the uses for Steam relate to the multi-player aspect of it, which is not really Civ's primary gaming mode.

 

[isndl]

As other people have said, Steam is actually pretty critical to the PC gaming community right now as well as its survival when compared to the rise in console gaming popularity. That's because it provides very simple, fast, and effective means of digital distribution of software, networking and social tools, excellent multiplayer services, achievements across many games for those who like that sort of thing, and much more.

The key to success for PC gaming is through the enabling of user generated content; it's the one area where the walled gardens of the consoles cannot compare. Everything else - digital distribution, multiplayer, etc. - is functionally equivalent regardless of platform. Steam does not add anything in that regard.

Well with Firaxis taking this approach, many gamers (non-disgruntled and non-irritable gamers) are going to be introduced to a service where the pros heavily outweigh any cons that myself or others could come up with.

I'm sorry, but to me, the pros do not heavily outweigh the cons. Tying my purchase of a game to an system that is deliberately designed to be able to nullify ownership at a moment's notice is far too heavy a con to make Steam attractive; I'd rather be able to continue playing my games even when something goes wrong rather than hope that nothing ever happens. There's a notion of acceptable risk here, and it would only get worse over time as more games are tied to the same account.

Closing statement: Firaxis made their decision and it's final. No online petitions or forum rage is going to change an important decision they've made for the success of their product/franchise and the success of their business so the back and forth bickering is pointless and has no productive value. I can understand why moderators have been closing most of these threads.

You're right in that there's effectively nothing that can be done to prevent the inclusion of Steam in CiV, but that doesn't mean the war is over. As customers, our reaction sets the tone for every game in the future, including games made by other companies. Even if all that happens now is that 2K/Firaxis makes minor adjustments in how they use Steam, there's a possibility that the next game that comes down the line will choose not to use Steam because of what is said here and now.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Here it is.

Thanks for the link. Not sure if you were trying to make a point but I consider that pretty weak evidence and probably not the link Chalks was talking about.

If the best we have to go on to assume of what happens when/if Steam goes down is based on a private email sent to someone with Newell giving a guess as to what he'd do, I'd be a bit worried.

So Chalks, can you please show me something more official? I'm waiting for an answer from you and the answer from Booky73, while I appreciate it, doesn't satisfy me. I am still rather concerned what would happen if Steam closed down or changed hands or something. It's exactly why I am going to avoid spending money buying games on Steam if I have a good reason to want to keep them for a long time. If it's some 5 dollar game I mightn't care, but a game that's 80 or 90 USD is worthy of that sort of concern.

I might even want to pick up and play the game in 50 years time. There's no way your or I or anyone here could give a reasonable prediction on that sort of timescale. Because the game is steam exclusive there's no option for me to avoid this concern other than to not buy the game. It's not likely to make me not buy civ but it will affect my decisions on other potential purchases.

 

[Avs]

Pyrodraulis: I mostly agree with you, but I do have to point out one issue I have with your post,

"No online petitions or forum rage is going to change an important decision they've made for the success of their product/franchise and the success of their business so the back and forth bickering is pointless and has no productive value."

I would find it exceedingly unlikely that a company would ignore a 1-2 million strong online petition, or something of that calibre. While a lot of what you say is true, claiming that we're powerless in this isn't entirely accurate. Rather, there isn't a large enough anti-Steam crowd to have an effect, which is slightly different to what you're saying.

Also, discussion boards are kinda where people who like arguing hang out...

The issue I believe with Steam having no features that are applicable is that the vast majority of the uses for Steam relate to the multi-player aspect of it, which is not really Civ's primary gaming mode.

I certainly don't see a 1-2 million strong online petition. Also, for so many people who play Civ through some multiplayer channel, that's a hard argument to believe. Except I cannot prove this either.

 

[Pyrodraulis]

The anti-steam petition or whatever would never grow to 1-2 million because fortunately there aren't that many pointlessly disgruntled people out there. This same pattern seems to happen with just about any big gaming announcement. Game or Game Policy Announced - RAGE - PO'd Forum Dwellers Arrive and Introduce Themselves - Petitions Applied - Laughable Failure & Mockery.

If you don't believe me, google Left 4 Dead 2 Boycott Fail and the first link should come with a picture of a funny sight. A screenshot of the L4D2 boycott group with plenty of their members currently playing the game.

I've never seen a successful petition or game-boycott. Not that their hasn't ever been a successful one because I'm sure there has, but they've gotta be pretty rare if I don't know about any. This just reinforces my theory that people don't do this sort of thing because they believe that some sort of unethical practice is being enforced, they just do it for other reasons which I won't mention because there is no way to discuss it without coming off as offensive.

 

[arstal]

Pyrodraulis: I mostly agree with you, but I do have to point out one issue I have with your post,

"No online petitions or forum rage is going to change an important decision they've made for the success of their product/franchise and the success of their business so the back and forth bickering is pointless and has no productive value."

I would find it exceedingly unlikely that a company would ignore a 1-2 million strong online petition, or something of that calibre. While a lot of what you say is true, claiming that we're powerless in this isn't entirely accurate. Rather, there isn't a large enough anti-Steam crowd to have an effect, which is slightly different to what you're saying.

Also, discussion boards are kinda where people who like arguing hang out...

The issue I believe with Steam having no features that are applicable is that the vast majority of the uses for Steam relate to the multi-player aspect of it, which is not really Civ's primary gaming mode.

The biggest power the anti-Steamers have is to support products that go with our beliefs- such as Elemental or Paradox's library, and make those games bigger.

While 2k isn't going to change their mind, the difference between older players of strategy games and "console kiddies" is I believe the older folks are much more likely to vote with their wallet. Many of the console kiddies tend to pirate anyways. There is a generation gap. MW2, L4D2= console games in spirit. The fact is, big publishers prefer console games to PC games, due to higher profit margins and a more pliable fanbase that buys DLC instead of creates mods.

Mod folks are really going to love Elemental if the developer blog today is as good as Brad Wardell says it is.

BTW, Virtua Fighter fans soon may be huge beneficiaries of an online petition. (the one reason I own a console is fighting games- which are not good on PC's due to unstandardized hardware)

 

[civ_king]

Pyrodraulis: I mostly agree with you, but I do have to point out one issue I have with your post,

"No online petitions or forum rage is going to change an important decision they've made for the success of their product/franchise and the success of their business so the back and forth bickering is pointless and has no productive value."

I would find it exceedingly unlikely that a company would ignore a 1-2 million strong online petition, or something of that calibre. While a lot of what you say is true, claiming that we're powerless in this isn't entirely accurate. Rather, there isn't a large enough anti-Steam crowd to have an effect, which is slightly different to what you're saying.

Also, discussion boards are kinda where people who like arguing hang out...

The issue I believe with Steam having no features that are applicable is that the vast majority of the uses for Steam relate to the multi-player aspect of it, which is not really Civ's primary gaming mode.

At this point it is probably impossible to be able to remove Steamworks and deliver a quality product

Thanks for the link. Not sure if you were trying to make a point but I consider that pretty weak evidence and probably not the link Chalks was talking about.

If the best we have to go on to assume of what happens when/if Steam goes down is based on a private email sent to someone with Newell giving a guess as to what he'd do, I'd be a bit worried.

So Chalks, can you please show me something more official? I'm waiting for an answer from you and the answer from Booky73, while I appreciate it, doesn't satisfy me. I am still rather concerned what would happen if Steam closed down or changed hands or something. It's exactly why I am going to avoid spending money buying games on Steam if I have a good reason to want to keep them for a long time. If it's some 5 dollar game I mightn't care, but a game that's 80 or 90 USD is worthy of that sort of concern.

I might even want to pick up and play the game in 50 years time. There's no way your or I or anyone here could give a reasonable prediction on that sort of timescale. Because the game is steam exclusive there's no option for me to avoid this concern other than to not buy the game. It's not likely to make me not buy civ but it will affect my decisions on other potential purchases.

50 years? try using getting data off this

 

[Savoir10]

The biggest power the anti-Steamers have is to support products that go with our beliefs- such as Elemental or Paradox's library, and make those games bigger.

While 2k isn't going to change their mind, the difference between older players of strategy games and "console kiddies" is I believe the older folks are much more likely to vote with their wallet. Many of the console kiddies tend to pirate anyways. There is a generation gap. MW2, L4D2= console games in spirit. The fact is, big publishers prefer console games to PC games, due to higher profit margins and a more pliable fanbase that buys DLC instead of creates mods.

Mod folks are really going to love Elemental if the developer blog today is as good as Brad Wardell says it is.

BTW, Virtua Fighter fans soon may be huge beneficiaries of an online petition. (the one reason I own a console is fighting games- which are not good on PC's due to unstandardized hardware)

You have already said you will not buy Civ5. Also every post you make is promoting your cute little pixie magic game. We're know what you're up too. You're not fooling anyone using anti-steam rhetoric to cross promote another game.

 

[civ_king]

The biggest power the anti-Steamers have is to support products that go with our beliefs- such as Elemental or Paradox's library, and make those games bigger.

While 2k isn't going to change their mind, the difference between older players of strategy games and "console kiddies" is I believe the older folks are much more likely to vote with their wallet. Many of the console kiddies tend to pirate anyways. There is a generation gap. MW2, L4D2= console games in spirit. The fact is, big publishers prefer console games to PC games, due to higher profit margins and a more pliable fanbase that buys DLC instead of creates mods.

Mod folks are really going to love Elemental if the developer blog today is as good as Brad Wardell says it is.

BTW, Virtua Fighter fans soon may be huge beneficiaries of an online petition. (the one reason I own a console is fighting games- which are not good on PC's due to unstandardized hardware)

Why realize you basically told us why Steam will be adopted by PC game producers

 

[EmpireOfCats]

I might even want to pick up and play the game in 50 years time.

Wow.

In 50 years, statistics say I'll be dead, which will give Left 4 Dead a whole new meaning. We'll be past the even most optimistic predictions for Peak Oil, so we'll be more interested in our potato crop than a computer game. We might even have to deal with the Singularity, so we have no idea what computers will be like.

Me, dead or not, I'll just ask my AI to simulate Civ XVII, the best in the series. No problem.

 

[arstal]

Well, pirates aren't customers. You try to stop the pirates, you only end up pissing off the customers. Only the biggest games can get away with that. Civ isn't one of those games.

I'm not the pessimist a lot of the Steam fanboys are in terms of people saying no. If this was a FPS, yeah, I don't think the complaining would amount to much- but there is a difference in the fanbases. I know I sound snooty when I say that, but it's true.

I do believe, at worst, that there will be companies who will fill in the niche, and that the segment that doesn't like this will be served. Eventually others will come along, as the niche will be higher quality then the mainstream. We've already seen EA back off some due to Spore bombing. (Not comparing Steam to Spore DRM, Spore DRM was worse)

It will take time though, as corporations are risk-averse entities.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

We've already seen EA back off some due to Spore bombing. (Not comparing Steam to Spore DRM, Spore DRM was worse)

I didn't buy Spore because of the reports about the DRM.

 

[MarkJohnson]

I too am not happy with Steam only support as I've had issues in the past with slow game updates and incompatible updates, but since it is exclusive to steam it should avoid this issue as it's made for Steam.

My only concerned left is how long the game will be supported? Does Firaxis or whoever is making Civ5 have any kind of guarantee on how long this game and it's expansions will be 100% supported? In the past most Civ games have lasted a good 5+ years between versions. I'd hate to buy it and start losing it a piece at a time because Steam thinks it's not popular enough or cost effective enough to fully support it.

On a side note, is there any plans for a beta test or pre-orders get a couple of weeks early release before everyone else? I'd love to play it now, even if it crashes constantly.

CivAddict
-=Mark=-

 

[arstal]

I too am not happy with Steam only support as I've had issues in the past with slow game updates and incompatible updates, but since it is exclusive to steam it should avoid this issue as it's made for Steam.

My only concerned left is how long the game will be supported? Does Firaxis or whoever is making Civ5 have any kind of guarantee on how long this game and it's expansions will be 100% supported? In the past most Civ games have lasted a good 5+ years between versions. I'd hate to buy it and start losing it a piece at a time because Steam thinks it's not popular enough or cost effective enough to fully support it.

On a side note, is there any plans for a beta test or pre-orders get a couple of weeks early release before everyone else? I'd love to play it now, even if it crashes constantly.

CivAddict
-=Mark=-

I doubt the game will be axed in the next 5 years. Steam supports a lot of older games. It's not as bad as the consoles yet (some consoles games have had their MP dropped , such as Madden games over 1 yr old) Hopefully it never becomes that way, but I don't trust Valve, or anyone else on that. (I'm not picking on Valve, if Stardock had the same DRM I wouldn't trust them either)

 

[civ_king]

I didn't buy Spore because of the reports about the DRM.

Spore was the bomb, it was like a ticking bomb on my computer waiting to randomly blow up, not only did the game suck, but the DRM was horrific

 

[PieceOfMind]

50 years? try using getting data off this

You're just joking right? That has nothing to do with my point.

 

[Booky73]

Thanks for the link. Not sure if you were trying to make a point but I consider that pretty weak evidence and probably not the link Chalks was talking about.

You just got me. I think, Chalk refers to the wiki-article. At the End, there are some points listed which contain so called criticism. There you get the statement:

Despite this, Gabe Newell, CEO of Valve, said in a post on the Steam User Forums that "Unless there was some situation I don't understand, we would presumably disable authentication before any event that would preclude the authentication servers from being available." He added, "We've tested disabling authentication and it works."

This quote is linked to the forum post above. I guess Chalk refered to this article.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

My only concerned left is how long the game will be supported?

Let's put it this way: Half Life 1 was released twelve years ago. It's still on Steam, as are all the derivatives such as Opposing Force. So at least 2022 would be my guess. Me, I hope I'll be playing Civ IX or something by then ...