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[Civ 5] Rise of Mankind design discussion

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rise of Mankind' started by zappara, Mar 11, 2010.

  1. zappara

    zappara Mod Designer

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    Nothing that I know of. It might change in the upcoming Civ 5 patches, at least I hope so.

    Global modifiers

    I've been thinking... a lot... and perhaps Afforess could answer me if it would be possible to add new global feature just like happiness and culture are? What if instead of culture points, you'd accumulate something like political/revolutionary/stability points that would be used for social policies? Culture points could be then used for other things, like expanding borders (it could lower the price of tiles) and bringing immigrants towards your country, and finding culture related techs (art, music etc) and making tourist attractions... what else could be culture used?

    So we could have following global modifiers that empire produces:
    gold
    science
    culture
    stability
    religion
    happiness
    health
    electricity (this could be strategic resource too)

    Improvements

    In Civ 4: RoM we got improvements that upgrade over time. I want to bring this same feature to Civ 5 version but I had planned to change the system a bit... instead of building Mine and it upgrading to Shaft Mine and then to Modern Mine, you would now build Mining Colony which upgrades to Mining Village and then to Mining Town etc. Farm could go from Tribal farms (farm+cottage), Communal Farms (farm+hamlet), Medieval Farms (farm+castle, crop rotation), Modern Farms (farm + town, fertilizers + pesticides + machines), Vertical Farms (modern suburb with vertical farm skyscrapers). Some techs obviously would increase the benefits of each improvement type just like in previous RoM. Basically each improvement represents what that tile produces and what kind of people lives there that keep the production running on that plot. What do you think about this?
     
  2. Ogaburan

    Ogaburan Warlord

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    :goodjob:
    Always good to hear!
    At this point i have almost blind faith in your abilities...
     
  3. Sporhund

    Sporhund Warlord

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    Love the idea of electricity as a strategic resource. Gained either by a building consuming coal, oil or uranium, or from geothermal energy with improvement ofc. Only buildings would use the resource, but should be required for most modern day buildings like hospitals and movie theatres.

    I don't think having a religion "resource" is a good idea. To be honest, I didnt think it added anything at all to Civ4, except giving the AI more of a reason to hate you. Splitting culture into proper culture, and then a political resource of sorts could work, however, no matter what changes are made, the AI needs a way to learn to use it too...
     
  4. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    You can add as many new global modifiers as your heart desires, so long as you have the artwork for them. It takes a bit of time to add the new AI and such for them, but it's not really all that hard. ;)
     
  5. Malchar

    Malchar Prince

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    Not sure if this is what you intended, but I got the idea that you could combine farms with forts into one improvement that provides extra food and a defensive bonus. That would be kind of a cool way to allow for more forts without having it feel like a waste of a tile. The defensive bonuses would increase with certain technologies. Aside from this, I also like what else you have posted.
     
  6. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    If you could them to technologies so that if you build a mine it upgrades over time but only if you have the technology for the upgrade at the time of upgrade.

    For example, using prehistoric mod as base, "seed camp" on a plant food plot will upgrade to farm after 40 (or whatever) turns. But if you do not have agriculture it will stay a "seed camp" until you do get agriculture when it upgrades.
     
  7. Skinnydoc331

    Skinnydoc331 Chieftain

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    I think this is a great idea!

    What if you used the "villages/towns" not only for these improvements but also for things such as having a "military focus" - i.e. a modern army base and the town that grows up around it or a castle/town. The different improvements could not only give production, food, gold bonuses - but also culture, military advantage (a small town or castle could "fire" upon passing enemy units at a smaller firepower), happiness (lots of military bases give war bonuses but more unhappiness.

    This could also give rise to different improvements focusing on happiness/unhappiness - "resort towns", "beach resorts", etc...etc...

    This could give more depth to an empire - having several "major cities" and lots of villages/towns.

    Maybe you could even give the option of naming your village if so desired.
     
  8. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    What about these?

    Spoiler :


    Crime
    Note that I think Crime and Stability should be separate but related. In other words crime would effect happiness and stability but be separate. Thus some buildings and stuff would add or subtract to "Crime" but not necessarily happiness or stability. Examples of subtracting from crime would be police stations or maybe even schools and of course ordinances.

    Flammability
    This would be something i really want to get included. Basiclly each building would either add or subtract to the chance that there will be a "Fire". If a fire occurs then you will loose a building (or 2). The higher your flammability the more often your cities will catch fire. Please do this one.
     
  9. Malchar

    Malchar Prince

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    Flammability could reduce a city's defense against attacks. For example, siege weapons, or any attackers for that matter, would be able to cause more damage. I also like the idea of it increasing the chance of having a random fire in the city.

    Crime could be related to espionage weakness if and when espionage is added.
     
  10. Deathwind

    Deathwind Chieftain

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    A couple quick thoughts (more later):

    Electricity as a strategic resource is a brilliant idea, especially now that strategic resources are quantized. The more electricity you can produce (empire wide), the more electricity-using buildings you can build. This gives a reason to build multiple power plants, and doesn't either require or limit us to one power plant per city.

    With regard to improvements improving over time: we really need to think this one through.
    Do things like farms, mines, trading posts, etc. get better and better based on technological development, or based on something that is independent of technology?

    Back in Civ4, the hamlet-town series got better independently of technology, presumably because the income a town produces for the government is based more on population growth than on technological development. Other improvements, such as farms, became more effective when new farming technologies were discovered, presumably because technology is a greater factor in farm efficiency than, say, population growth, or the amount of time that a given field has been farmed.

    With the various iterations of ROM/AND, these distinctions became blurred, both with technologies that improved the benefit of towns, and with improvements (e.g. mines) that got better over time regardless of technology. Then with the last couple editions of AND, the growth-over-time was capped by technology, which seemed to move us back in the direction of the original Civ4 model.

    Therefore, I think we should all try to answer the following:
    1. Do mines become more effective based on technological development, or based on the growth of population?
    2. Do farms become more effective based on technological development, or based on the growth of population?
    3. Do trading centers (or villages if we would rather bring them back) become more effective based on technological development, or based on the growth of population?
    4. Do lumber mills become more effective based on technological development, or based on the growth of population?
    5. Do fishing grounds become more effective based on technological development, or based on the growth of population?
    6. Do ______ (fill in the blank of your proposed new improvement, industry, workshop or whatever) become more effective based on technological development, or based on the growth of population?
     
  11. Dancing Hoskuld

    Dancing Hoskuld Deity

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    #Deathwind, I agree and what I was trying to suggest was that improvements grow over time but have a ceiling which requires a tech to get through. Or indeed many ceilings.
     
  12. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    I belive that's what my whole Sim City based idea would cover.

    Spoiler :



    Basiclly city buildings and improvements would provide either Residential, Industrial or Commercial. Cottages for example would provide places for the population to live. If the population went over the number of homes then there would be unhappiness and such.

    Meanwhile the Industrial and Commercial jobs would be determined upon which buildings you created and what improvements you made. Thus a mine would bring more industrial jobs the more you upgraded it. Note that industrial jobs would also be based upon resources available. Industrial jobs would be not only the factory buildings in the cities but the improvements on the board like mines, farms, lumber mills, etc.

    The commercial jobs would be based around the good that the industrial jobs made and like the industrial jobs have buildings and improvements that are on the board. Commercial improvements would be things like the trading post.

    Remember the more jobs provided by buildings and improvements the quicker your populations will grow due to people moving in for jobs. However if there are not enough jobs or houses then people will leave and your population will shrink until it meets the current number of jobs available (or happiness).

    Other factors like electricity or water would also determine what can be built be it improvements or buildings. Likewise each improvement of building would add garbage, pollution, flammability, crime, etc.
     
  13. Malchar

    Malchar Prince

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    I think that towns/trading posts provide commercial jobs in addition to population. After all, they produce commerce.

    Originally I liked the Sim City idea, but I think that Civ already implements it in a less obvious way. You already have food -> population -> working more tiles. If you don't have enough jobs available (not enough upgraded tiles) then your extra population basically goes to waste in that working non-upgraded tiles is not as efficient as working upgraded ones.

    Also, there already exists a delicate balance between production (industry) and commerce.

    I think that other factors like crime, pollution, can and should be added, but they can easily be added on top of the existing game.
     
  14. DrwHem

    DrwHem Prince

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    you should add buildings that produce scarce resources like oil. i own an entire continent and have only 2 oil resources. i think there should be a synthetic factory for certain resources like oil, rubber(if you make it strategic again), coal ect. maybe have the natural oil spots worth 6 and have a building that can only be built in every 5th or so city to provide 1 oil. that way you still keep it scarse but you also allow people to pad their supply a bit.
     
  15. Tekener

    Tekener Chieftain

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    I am sorry for not having read the the whole thread, but maybe you would have the patience answering me this question:

    Will there be any chance at all to once code in local city values as we had in Civ IV with health and happines? Or is this simply impoassible by the way Civ V was done by Firaxis and only global stats will be possible? I am hardly missing them, as well as religions, nationality influence, cooperations, ... All that was giving us so much fun in Civ IV is gone and just hexfields, cool graphics and 1UPT rules are not enough for the long term fun I fear.

    Having all as global stats would make Revolution, which was a very great part of RoM, even thougn it wasn't from Zap himself, impossible - correct? Wouldn't that be sad?
     
  16. Supercheese

    Supercheese Zeppelin Commander

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    I'm going to guess Afforess would respond with something like this:

    "If we are later able to mod the DLL, then anything you've said there is possible. If we aren't, none of it will be possible."
     
  17. Afforess

    Afforess The White Wizard

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    If we are later able to mod the DLL, then anything you've said there is possible. If we aren't, none of it will be possible.

    Happy? :p
     
  18. Supercheese

    Supercheese Zeppelin Commander

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    :goodjob:
     
  19. Arrorn

    Arrorn Chieftain

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    I wish they would hurry up in releasing the DLL code.
     
  20. Krogan

    Krogan Chieftain

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    Not sure if this is an idea that has been brought up before, but I have always liked the idea of more advanced farming. I think that wheat as a special resource is kind of silly, rather I would like to be able to pick what to grow in my fields.

    You could also make this more interesting by having different civs discover different types of seeds depending on a number of different things like climate, culture, tech, quest lines, exploration, goody huts etc. So for example one nation might become wheat farmers while another grows barley, rice or something else (no agricultural expert btw :p).

    The idea would be that verity of food stuffs would increase health and happiness, as would having surplus food. Later as you set up trade routes maybe you can even learn from other nations how to grow their crops but then again maybe the climate you are in doesn't support it. You might also decide it is more profitable to focus on a few different kinds of crops and trade that for gold or other crops even.

    Example : Having a large quantity of one kind of food allows your cities to grow but a verity of food and overall surplus gives you a health bonus which also further increases population growth. And obviously a healthier population has all kinds of advantages.

    I also like the idea of quantities making a difference, for example you may build a colony on another continent that has a different climate allowing you to grow something your people may lack, but in order to supply enough of this to cover the demand of the rest of your empire you might want the new city to focus on that 1 product.
    I really like the idea of cities being able to support each other to a much greater extent. Should a mining city in the mountains have to grow its own food? And does an agricultural city really have to have a mine to build buildings?

    What they do in Civ 5 with maintenance cost on buildings is try to force you to specialize your cities but imo that is a really boring way of doing it. Allowing cities to focus on producing different things I find much more interesting. It even makes wars even more interesting. Your scouts/spies has told you that your enemy has a city that produces 50% of the food for his empire, you focus your attack there and choke his supply of food to his other cities and suddenly all his cities and armies are starving.

    One final thing I would add in this regard is the ability to build bonus structures on the map, what I mean with that is using a tile to build something like a windmill. The windmill would maybe increase wheat production in that city by 30%.

    Example: A wheat farm on fertile ground produces 100 wheat/t, a windmill that is built on a tile increases wheat production with 30% in the city. 5 farms without windmill produces 500 wheat, while 4 wheat farms with windmill produces 520 wheat.

    This would easily apply to any kind of resource making city specialization meaningful and imo really fun rather then frustrating. In general I guess I want Civ games to learn a thing or two from Settlers 2 :)

    ps. If you really are remaking RoM for Civ5 then you are my HERO. RoM really became the real Civ4 for me over the years and everything that I found disappointing when playing Civ5 is your fault, since the things I miss are not features from Civ4 but features from RoM.
     

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