[Civ 5] Rise of Mankind design discussion

[Hydromancerx]

I already mentioned that...

Oops! Sorry. I did not realize. Its still a good name.

I wasn't that serious about "Fabulous freetime killer" and few other names that I said... was just trying to wake up your imagination Anyway, if new name is chosen, it should be something that isn't trademarked already and isn't in use by some company/band/club etc. just to avoid possible issues with the name.

Sorry but all names have been taken by someone somewhere for something. For instance long before you made RoM I had a project called RoM too except it stood for "Roads of Maztica" and was a Neverwinter Nights mod. I know acronyms are not quite the same thing but you get the idea.

 

[Ogaburan]

How about

Zapparas Civilization V ?

...and maybe if it will be popular enough Sid will get the point?

 

[zappara]

How about

Zapparas Civilization V ?

...and maybe if it will be popular enough Sid will get the point?

Don't you mean Zappara's Civilization VI? Just kidding...

Anyway, little bit about Civ 5 modding:

The ModBuddy is really cool thing and easy to use. If you start using, you should read first Kael's guide for it (don't have link for it now). In ModBuddy you got to define what xml files will be updated to the SQL database (mod's Actions) which is where all the game objects are located - set: OnModActivated, Type: UpdateDatabase, Filename: xml file with path - you need to define action for each xml file. For Firefox browser get SQLite Manager tool which allows you to check Civ 5's SQL database, mainly the debug DB when testing your mod (to see if your xml entries get added there). With SQL queries we could also update tech tree to RoM settings much faster than with xml modifications (I've coded with SQL long time ago so it shouldn't too hard to remember how it was done).

 

[royal62184]

I think with SQL, in the case of the tech tree, couldn't u just increment all the technologies X coordinates by a certain increment to make room for new stuff. I thought I read this somewhere but I may be mistaken.

Here is the example I read

For any other modders out there: You may find this mod useful as an example of how to use SQL files to make modifications.

The first three items on my list would take ages to do in Civ4, or in Civ5 using xml. List every building, every unit, every tech, and modify costs? No thanks.

Fortunately, you no longer have to, thanks to the wonders of SQL.

Here is the code I used to modify tech costs:

Code:
UPDATE Technologies SET 'Cost' = cost*1.5 WHERE Cost > 0;That single line did it all. Set it to load to the database (same way you already use XML files!), and it will take care of it all. You can even get more complex and have it affect specific groups of techs, which you define; Whatever you want, basically. It is incredibly simple compared to the old method.

Maybe you can use SQL to do like I described when it comes to the tech tree.

 

[Freesmog]

How about

Zapparas Civilization V ?

...and maybe if it will be popular enough Sid will get the point?

I predict both Zappara & Kael will eventually be working independently on other gaming projects for a piece of the pie. However much I like their contributions, I don't agree with Sid's business model at this point (unless he has little say due to a more powerful business administration).

 

[Tyrann]

I'd really want to see alternative tech trees. Ability to choose from steampunk advancements or long lost Roman techs would make the mod much more replayable.

 

[Arrorn]

@zappara: Are we going to get a Civ 5 Forum? Or do we actually have to do something first....

 

[Hydromancerx]

I'd really want to see alternative tech trees. Ability to choose from steampunk advancements or long lost Roman techs would make the mod much more replayable.

Well that's what I tried to propose with my Golden Age / Dark Age Era Tree. Where Steam Punk would be in the Industrial Era's Golden Age while Lost Roman Techs would be in the Classical Era's Golden Age.

The ModBuddy is really cool thing and easy to use. If you start using, you should read first Kael's guide for it (don't have link for it now). In ModBuddy you got to define what xml files will be updated to the SQL database (mod's Actions) which is where all the game objects are located - set: OnModActivated, Type: UpdateDatabase, Filename: xml file with path - you need to define action for each xml file. For Firefox browser get SQLite Manager tool which allows you to check Civ 5's SQL database, mainly the debug DB when testing your mod (to see if your xml entries get added there). With SQL queries we could also update tech tree to RoM settings much faster than with xml modifications (I've coded with SQL long time ago so it shouldn't too hard to remember how it was done).

Is there a way to get these modding tools without having bought Civ5 yet? All I have is the demo, but would like to take a look at them before buying the actual game.

 

[Galacticat42]

However much I like their contributions, I don't agree with Sid's business model at this point (unless he has little say due to a more powerful business administration).

Sid Meier actually hasn't been a part of making Civ since Civ I, he just helps run the company he and a friend founded. Jon Shafer on the other hand has more direct control over the graphics and game rules of Civ V. Of course Sid Meier could step in and be head of making the next Civ, but he probably already has a busy schedule.

@ Arrorn
The rules clearly state that there has to be an actual product in order to get a thread/forum on the mod. Whether that product be in alpha/beta/release state doesn't matter, there has to be some kind of download.

EDIT: I gotta say this somewhere so I'll say it here:
I'm almost done makin' my first model for Civ V... hell for Civ in general! Very easy compared to Civ IV when I saw that tut.

 

[Crusis]

How about staying with Civ IV and working out the bugs here because Civ V is a turd?

It bugs me (pun!) that the fishing boat event makes no fishing boats. RoM is an absolutely awesome mod, but is it done? It bugs me that the events that offer you choices now only offer the first choice several times with an increasing fee for moving down the list. Like the medicine event early on.

Do those of us who prefer Civ IV really have to play a (slightly) buggy mod for the years it takes Civ V not to suck?

Thank you for all your hard work, Zappara, you've done an awesome job. I sort of feel like you've gone to the moon, orbited, and returned home without landing if you move on now. You turned Civ IV from an OK game to an amazing game. Thanks for that.

 

[Hydromancerx]

EDIT: I gotta say this somewhere so I'll say it here:
I'm almost done makin' my first model for Civ V... hell for Civ in general! Very easy compared to Civ IV when I saw that tut.

Cool. I have been taking a look at Kael's Mod Tutoral. I am happy to see that modding buildings are not too diffrent from civ4. Which theoretically means I could even help modding even without the modding tools or game (i think).

 

[Supercheese]

Cool. I have been taking a look at Kael's Mod Tutoral. I am happy to see that modding buildings are not too diffrent from civ4. Which theoretically means I could even help modding even without the modding tools or game (I think).

I'm sure you could. You could even start modding some buildings right now; of course, you'd need to get the CIV5Buildings.xml file from someone as a reference...

 

[strategyonly]

I got some of the units to look ALOT better, but if you use the "flag" it gets in the way. I still haven't figured out the fScale, i tried it but it went blank on the units, will have to adjust, i guess

1. No "flags"
2. "Flags"
3. Hard to see faces?

I also have this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=386486

 

[Galacticat42]

I got some of the units to look ALOT better, but if you use the "flag" it gets in the way. I still haven't figured out the fScale, i tried it but it went blank on the units, will have to adjust, i guess

1. No "flags"
2. "Flags"
3. Hard to see faces?

I also have this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=386486

The SQL can mass change any XML tag including fscale without having to touch the XML, however this will change the fscale of ALL units unless you specify specific ones to include/exclude.

 

[Ogaburan]

@strategyonly

I dont get me wrong, but i don't understand your fascination with changing how units look. I actually like it how it is in civ5.

The only thing im missing is a nation Icon "flag".

 

[strategyonly]

The SQL can mass change any XML tag including fscale without having to touch the XML, however this will change the fscale of ALL units unless you specify specific ones to include/exclude.

Yeah i got that i changed mostly everything to FScale .20, but they show up blank, weird

@strategyonly

I dont get me wrong, but i don't understand your fascination with changing how units look. I actually like it how it is in civ5.
The only thing im missing is a nation Icon "flag".

Well no offense to anyone that likes these formations, but it looks like "to me" like i am flying over them from an airplane and can "ants"/units that are so small i can distinguish who or what is what , thats why i like them BIGGER. Plus the fact that it takes longer to kill of a unit if there is more units attached, the clutter, and with the NEW Civ 5 engine which in itself is hard on your graphics card (they run extremely hotter), i dont want anything to go wrong.
But i guess i am mostly like Kael, he likes less units like i do, cause they just plain look better, IMHO.



I just like to experiment around also, its funner that way.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So one major problem we had in Civ4 RoM was the cramped tech tree for anyone who wanted to add to it. The early eras had like 4 or 5 columns and 10 rows. I think first each era should save space for 10 columns and 10 rows. This spreads out the tree but gives lots of room if we add additional techs (max 100 techs per era). In addition if the prehistoric era is not in the official Civ5 RoM then please leave 10 columns at the beginning as a buffer so other modders can add to it.

I think we will have many more techs than before if we have the whole golden age era techs, thus there will need to be room for them. I also noticed that the trans-human age had the most techs of all the ages. This should be fixed with Civ Fuehrer's space themed mod called "The Ascent of Mankind". See his thread about how it fits in.

In short as long as RoM either includes OR works together to make space with these other mods then we should not have any conflict. I mean really how cool would it be to go from a prehistoric nomad wandering around to following alternative tech paths to having colonies on other planets? I can't wait for this to become a reality! Civ5 RoM will be even more amazing than civ4 if we can pull that off.

 

[strategyonly]

So one major problem we had in Civ4 RoM was the cramped tech tree for anyone who wanted to add to it. The early eras had like 4 or 5 columns and 10 rows. I think first each era should save space for 10 columns and 10 rows. This spreads out the tree but gives lots of room if we add additional techs (max 100 techs per era). In addition if the prehistoric era is not in the official Civ5 RoM then please leave 10 columns at the beginning as a buffer so other modders can add to it.

I think we will have many more techs than before if we have the whole golden age era techs, thus there will need to be room for them. I also noticed that the trans-human age had the most techs of all the ages. This should be fixed with Civ Fuehrer's space themed mod called "The Ascent of Mankind". See his thread about how it fits in.

In short as long as RoM either includes OR works together to make space with these other mods then we should not have any conflict. I mean really how cool would it be to go from a prehistoric nomad wandering around to following alternative tech paths to having colonies on other planets? I can't wait for this to become a reality! Civ5 RoM will be even more amazing than civ4 if we can pull that off.

I believe "we" have already talked about that (i could be wrong) what "we" intend to do as i see it is leave a space in-between each <iGridX>10</iGridX>, meaning there would be actually techs in <iGridX>10</iGridX> but <iGridX>11</iGridX> column would be left open then again <iGridX>12</iGridX> would have actual techs, am i right or wrong here

I like your idea about the beginning of the tech tree also.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well whatever works for the spacing where you could fit in 10 techs x 10 techs for each era. I am not sure what that would make for the exact X and Y spaces since like you said they not only have spaces between them but you also have the spaces that each tech field takes up. Calculate that and then we should have enough wiggle room for Prehistoric Era techs. Galactic techs on the other hand are much easier to add since they would go on the right end of the tree and would not have to reserve space for.

 

[zappara]

So one major problem we had in Civ4 RoM was the cramped tech tree for anyone who wanted to add to it. The early eras had like 4 or 5 columns and 10 rows. I think first each era should save space for 10 columns and 10 rows. This spreads out the tree but gives lots of room if we add additional techs (max 100 techs per era). In addition if the prehistoric era is not in the official Civ5 RoM then please leave 10 columns at the beginning as a buffer so other modders can add to it.

I think we will have many more techs than before if we have the whole golden age era techs, thus there will need to be room for them. I also noticed that the trans-human age had the most techs of all the ages. This should be fixed with Civ Fuehrer's space themed mod called "The Ascent of Mankind". See his thread about how it fits in.

In short as long as RoM either includes OR works together to make space with these other mods then we should not have any conflict. I mean really how cool would it be to go from a prehistoric nomad wandering around to following alternative tech paths to having colonies on other planets? I can't wait for this to become a reality! Civ5 RoM will be even more amazing than civ4 if we can pull that off.

Umm, there's already a mod that adds several pages to techs... just like using web browser, you'll have tabs for different pages. This mod would actually allow to make all kinds of alternative tech routes... or civ specific tech trees ...or separate different type of tech categories to their own pages or... or force player to dark age era techs if has some unfortunate ends or give player access to golden era techs... endless possibilities with these kinds of things

Anyway, I had planned to make the tech tree in such way that it would have lot of extra room so that modmodders could add more techs there - though my plan was to leave empty every second column empty. This way new techs could be added to the start, middle and end of the era.

Besides, we need to have lots of room in tech tree because player can enable several mods at the same time that change the techs (unless we block those mods when running RoM, which is possible with modbuddy) - it's going to be a messy tech tree if player enables dozen or more tech tree editions... so this is going to need some careful planning.