[Civ 5] Rise of Mankind design discussion
- Thread starter zappara
- Start date
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Prehistoric Era
Ok so have an updated idea on the Prehistoric Era.
Nomads
Nomads are a new unit that can do most everything, but will do it badly. They can fight like a warrior, explore like a scout, work like worker and even found "encampments" like a settler founding a city. However they suck at all of these tasks. Thus when you have the technology you will want to upgrade them into a warrior, scout, worker or settler. Note that when you start the game you will have 1 nomad and nothing else.
Encampments
Encampments are temporary cities. They can only be founded by nomads and have a limited radius of only the tiles that directly touch it. They cannot grow and can only work one tile. They cannot fight back like normal cities. You cannot garrison units inside the encampments either. Unlike cities they can turn back into nomads and be take off the map. Encampments can however research, work 1 tile and produce units. They cannot however build any buildings (except for special cases).
I also am unsure if you could upgrade a encampment into a city once you had the right technology researched. If not then you could just upgrade the nomad into a settler and then found a city that way.
Buildings
There can still be buildings made in the encampments but once the encampment picks up and move then those buildings are lost (unless you research Mobile Dwellings tech). Here are some ideas for encampment buildings.
- Basket Weaver's Yurt (Basketry)
- Elder's Yurt (Ritualism)
- Firepit (Fire Making)
- Flint Knapper's Yurt (Stone Tools)
- Potter's Yurt (Pottery)
- Shaman's Yurt (Shamanism)
I am sure I can think up more later.
Research
The prehistoric era techs would be extremely cheap due to the limitations of the encampment to produce research. Thus the key to reaching the next era quickly would be exploring to find "goody huts" to give you free technology. But even if you don't you can atleast still research them.
I have some ideas for other techs such as Canine Domestication, Wood Carving, Ritualism, Shamanism, etc. But we can get into those later.
Units
Each unit would be unlocked by a specific tech.
Gathering = Worker
Hunting = Scout
Stone Tools = Warrior
Sedentary Lifestyle = Settler
Canine Domestication = Hunting Dog
In short if we use anything from this we should atleast use the Nomad/Encampment idea.
Ok so have an updated idea on the Prehistoric Era.
Nomads
Nomads are a new unit that can do most everything, but will do it badly. They can fight like a warrior, explore like a scout, work like worker and even found "encampments" like a settler founding a city. However they suck at all of these tasks. Thus when you have the technology you will want to upgrade them into a warrior, scout, worker or settler. Note that when you start the game you will have 1 nomad and nothing else.
Encampments
Encampments are temporary cities. They can only be founded by nomads and have a limited radius of only the tiles that directly touch it. They cannot grow and can only work one tile. They cannot fight back like normal cities. You cannot garrison units inside the encampments either. Unlike cities they can turn back into nomads and be take off the map. Encampments can however research, work 1 tile and produce units. They cannot however build any buildings (except for special cases).
I also am unsure if you could upgrade a encampment into a city once you had the right technology researched. If not then you could just upgrade the nomad into a settler and then found a city that way.
Buildings
There can still be buildings made in the encampments but once the encampment picks up and move then those buildings are lost (unless you research Mobile Dwellings tech). Here are some ideas for encampment buildings.
- Basket Weaver's Yurt (Basketry)
- Elder's Yurt (Ritualism)
- Firepit (Fire Making)
- Flint Knapper's Yurt (Stone Tools)
- Potter's Yurt (Pottery)
- Shaman's Yurt (Shamanism)
I am sure I can think up more later.
Research
The prehistoric era techs would be extremely cheap due to the limitations of the encampment to produce research. Thus the key to reaching the next era quickly would be exploring to find "goody huts" to give you free technology. But even if you don't you can atleast still research them.
I have some ideas for other techs such as Canine Domestication, Wood Carving, Ritualism, Shamanism, etc. But we can get into those later.
Units
Each unit would be unlocked by a specific tech.
Gathering = Worker
Hunting = Scout
Stone Tools = Warrior
Sedentary Lifestyle = Settler
Canine Domestication = Hunting Dog
In short if we use anything from this we should atleast use the Nomad/Encampment idea.
os79
Deity
Yes it is there.
Hey Zappara/Afforess, I love what you did with RoM for Civ 4, made the game much better, I can't wait till you have done something with Civ 5, as I am quite disappointed by it as it currently stands. I have to say, I like the new 1 unit per tile combat system, but there are a lot of other problems.
I know you guys are probably all set on the tech tree and know what you are doing there, as I won't input much on that issue. I posted this in the Civ 5 known issues thread in the Civ 5 discussion, but that I would post problems I have found here as well, maybe you guys can fix it before the dev's do. I know you guys aren't a fan of wooden ships hurting steel ones or archers beating infantry just as I am not.
It's not actually an "AI problem" but I wonder if you would mod it so that the AI doesn't pack cities so tightly together? Its stupid for late game and its ugly, maybe make a 3 tile min rather then 2?
Here are problems I have found:
-Air units have no scouting ability like in Civ 4. This is an absolutely required ability for air, as you can't bomb what you cant see, and sending in slow land units to die for you planes is moronic.
-American minutemen ability to treat all tiles as 1 move makes it so they cant use roads.. this is a really bad thing. The unit is underpowered even if this is fixed, a knight is 18 and can move 2 times in forest/hills aswell just because it has more movement, who cares if it takes 1-2 more turns to build?
-AI is horrible at defending its workers, workers don't run away, they just stand to be captured 1 by 1.
-AI settlers are often captured by barbarians, and as Lanstro pointed out, barbs are really weak.
-AI is awful at naval combat/getting across the water/founding cities on islands
-AI is awful at combat, they will move ranged units right next to your melee/non ranged so you can an easy kill.
-In my modern era game (king) the AI built no tanks, no modern armor, no mech infantry... only mobile sams and gunships. They had a huge rich empire with all resourses.
-The patch that fixed AI giving everything away when losing a war went too far... now they will never give you any gold/cities no matter how badly you are beating them.
-Units that shouldn't be able to hurt air can... frigates and anti tank guns for example.
-Cannons etc can bombard helicopters and hurt them-badly. Makes no sense... maybe if they had happen to land, but its dumb imo.
-Helicopters cant fly over any water, even coast. I know you guys fixed this in RoM, I'm sure you will again.
-Destroyers are way too weak vs frigates... balance is one thing, but come on... a destroyer should be unbeatable vs a frigate.
-Destroyers and battleships bombard is way too weak, they are rather worthless. Personally I'd double the bombard strength on both.
-Helicopter gunships can capture cities, and can use roads.. broken and way over powered.
-Capturing cities is a joke now. Id love to see it get harder, and I'd love to see partisans from Civ 2 back! Maybe after you capture a city depending on its size rebels can spawn in a few tiles near the city. they would be weaker then normal units but have a hefty + combat VS cities (they know the streets/enterances of thier city plus have the backing of the non violent citizens) so would have to be dealt with quickly.
-AI is very slow to build wonders past the ancient age, I had no trouble getting ever wonder I wanted on King. While I could easily beat the AI in Civ 4 on king/emp I always had to budget my wonders, couldn't get them all. Now its cake.
-Special resources are too weak. A cow pasture for example on grassland is 3 food 1 hammer.. a farm after cival service/fertalizer is 4 food.. pastures, camps, and iron mines needs a boost imo.
-Many civ special abilities need a boost. For America, the + 1 sight is actually quite nice, but I think tile price reduction should be increased to 50% up from 25%. The Ottoman ability to capture barb ships and make them theirs is the correct idea.. between 1450-1600's the ottomans used tons of pirates.. but its really a weak ability... maybe something in the same idea but boosted in strength?
-Barbarians can get destroyers... I don't need to explain how idiotic this is. I'd suggest a new unit for barbarians for the modern era, "gun boat" or something.. could be a large speed boat with a soviet era 23mm AA gun or something on it... something abundant and the pirates could actually get and be dangerous with.
-Many civics (whatever they are called now) need a boost. Last I checked, USA/Western Europe owned the commies, however in Civ 5 the labor/commie route is amazing, and would crush an empire using the liberty/freedom route. For example, the production boost in liberty is 1 hammer a city... Communism is 5... granted Communism is longer to get to and further down the tree but come on... could at least be 3 and 5.
-Things take much longer to build now. On marathon setting in Civ 4, my best cities could build modern armor in 4-3 turns, maybe 2 if it was in an amazing spot. How my very, very best city takes like 12 turns to build one on marathon. Again, granted now 1 modern armor = like 5+ in civ 4, but I still think production is a bit weak. My suggestion is cities start off a bit stronger, like start at a base of 5 hammers instead of 2, or forest/hills give a base of 1 extra hammer, or an early production boosting tile improvement that can be built on plains/grassland is added into the game.
-Wealth is now useless, even in a size 20 city with great production it was only giving me 5 gold per turn when using wealth. gold per hammer needs to be tripled/quadrupled imo.
I know you guys are probably all set on the tech tree and know what you are doing there, as I won't input much on that issue. I posted this in the Civ 5 known issues thread in the Civ 5 discussion, but that I would post problems I have found here as well, maybe you guys can fix it before the dev's do. I know you guys aren't a fan of wooden ships hurting steel ones or archers beating infantry just as I am not.
It's not actually an "AI problem" but I wonder if you would mod it so that the AI doesn't pack cities so tightly together? Its stupid for late game and its ugly, maybe make a 3 tile min rather then 2?
Here are problems I have found:
-Air units have no scouting ability like in Civ 4. This is an absolutely required ability for air, as you can't bomb what you cant see, and sending in slow land units to die for you planes is moronic.
-American minutemen ability to treat all tiles as 1 move makes it so they cant use roads.. this is a really bad thing. The unit is underpowered even if this is fixed, a knight is 18 and can move 2 times in forest/hills aswell just because it has more movement, who cares if it takes 1-2 more turns to build?
-AI is horrible at defending its workers, workers don't run away, they just stand to be captured 1 by 1.
-AI settlers are often captured by barbarians, and as Lanstro pointed out, barbs are really weak.
-AI is awful at naval combat/getting across the water/founding cities on islands
-AI is awful at combat, they will move ranged units right next to your melee/non ranged so you can an easy kill.
-In my modern era game (king) the AI built no tanks, no modern armor, no mech infantry... only mobile sams and gunships. They had a huge rich empire with all resourses.
-The patch that fixed AI giving everything away when losing a war went too far... now they will never give you any gold/cities no matter how badly you are beating them.
-Units that shouldn't be able to hurt air can... frigates and anti tank guns for example.
-Cannons etc can bombard helicopters and hurt them-badly. Makes no sense... maybe if they had happen to land, but its dumb imo.
-Helicopters cant fly over any water, even coast. I know you guys fixed this in RoM, I'm sure you will again.
-Destroyers are way too weak vs frigates... balance is one thing, but come on... a destroyer should be unbeatable vs a frigate.
-Destroyers and battleships bombard is way too weak, they are rather worthless. Personally I'd double the bombard strength on both.
-Helicopter gunships can capture cities, and can use roads.. broken and way over powered.
-Capturing cities is a joke now. Id love to see it get harder, and I'd love to see partisans from Civ 2 back! Maybe after you capture a city depending on its size rebels can spawn in a few tiles near the city. they would be weaker then normal units but have a hefty + combat VS cities (they know the streets/enterances of thier city plus have the backing of the non violent citizens) so would have to be dealt with quickly.
-AI is very slow to build wonders past the ancient age, I had no trouble getting ever wonder I wanted on King. While I could easily beat the AI in Civ 4 on king/emp I always had to budget my wonders, couldn't get them all. Now its cake.
-Special resources are too weak. A cow pasture for example on grassland is 3 food 1 hammer.. a farm after cival service/fertalizer is 4 food.. pastures, camps, and iron mines needs a boost imo.
-Many civ special abilities need a boost. For America, the + 1 sight is actually quite nice, but I think tile price reduction should be increased to 50% up from 25%. The Ottoman ability to capture barb ships and make them theirs is the correct idea.. between 1450-1600's the ottomans used tons of pirates.. but its really a weak ability... maybe something in the same idea but boosted in strength?
-Barbarians can get destroyers... I don't need to explain how idiotic this is. I'd suggest a new unit for barbarians for the modern era, "gun boat" or something.. could be a large speed boat with a soviet era 23mm AA gun or something on it... something abundant and the pirates could actually get and be dangerous with.
-Many civics (whatever they are called now) need a boost. Last I checked, USA/Western Europe owned the commies, however in Civ 5 the labor/commie route is amazing, and would crush an empire using the liberty/freedom route. For example, the production boost in liberty is 1 hammer a city... Communism is 5... granted Communism is longer to get to and further down the tree but come on... could at least be 3 and 5.
-Things take much longer to build now. On marathon setting in Civ 4, my best cities could build modern armor in 4-3 turns, maybe 2 if it was in an amazing spot. How my very, very best city takes like 12 turns to build one on marathon. Again, granted now 1 modern armor = like 5+ in civ 4, but I still think production is a bit weak. My suggestion is cities start off a bit stronger, like start at a base of 5 hammers instead of 2, or forest/hills give a base of 1 extra hammer, or an early production boosting tile improvement that can be built on plains/grassland is added into the game.
-Wealth is now useless, even in a size 20 city with great production it was only giving me 5 gold per turn when using wealth. gold per hammer needs to be tripled/quadrupled imo.
Afforess
The White Wizard
There are a lot of factions here, posting their own mutually exclusive ideas about RoM for Civ5 should be. (BTW, are we using RoM for the title? It might be too easily confused with the Civ4 mod. A new title should be in order...)
We're going to end up splitting over core vision and ideas. Frankly we've just got way too many ideas floating about, and I'm the only C++ guru here.
I'm suggesting one of two ideas:
Compartmentalized Design. We break into several groups. One covers the Stone and Ancient eras. The next the Classical and Medieval Eras. The next the Ren. and Industrial. The last covers the modern and future eras. Each group works towards building that era up, and we merge them together. Obviously some content will need to be cut in the merge, but it should allow us to maximize what each group achieves. Ideally, each group would have 2-3 members, and at least 1 person proficient in XML. Art designers, translators, and SDK coding would be shared amongst the groups, as needed.
Selective Design. With Zappara as a leading designer, he breaks down his vision for the mod, and creates a list of priority changes needed from the idea pool. People begin tackling projects on the priority list, with top priority's first. This method allows Zappara to retain ultimate control over the mod and what goes in, but might make a few of you guys unhappy.
Honestly, Selective Design might be best, since Zap and I are the only people here have succeeded with a project of this scale.
At any rate, we need to curb the in-fighting about ideas, and start forming a list of top priorities.
We're going to end up splitting over core vision and ideas. Frankly we've just got way too many ideas floating about, and I'm the only C++ guru here.
I'm suggesting one of two ideas:
Compartmentalized Design. We break into several groups. One covers the Stone and Ancient eras. The next the Classical and Medieval Eras. The next the Ren. and Industrial. The last covers the modern and future eras. Each group works towards building that era up, and we merge them together. Obviously some content will need to be cut in the merge, but it should allow us to maximize what each group achieves. Ideally, each group would have 2-3 members, and at least 1 person proficient in XML. Art designers, translators, and SDK coding would be shared amongst the groups, as needed.
Selective Design. With Zappara as a leading designer, he breaks down his vision for the mod, and creates a list of priority changes needed from the idea pool. People begin tackling projects on the priority list, with top priority's first. This method allows Zappara to retain ultimate control over the mod and what goes in, but might make a few of you guys unhappy.
Honestly, Selective Design might be best, since Zap and I are the only people here have succeeded with a project of this scale.
At any rate, we need to curb the in-fighting about ideas, and start forming a list of top priorities.
I get you guys will be mainly modding the game like RoM to have more techs/units, but are you able to improve the AI? ATM its quite poor, and if a moder or the games Devs don't fix it, it will be hard to have fun no matter how good a mod is. There are some major problems with how the AI handles its ranged units and uses its navy/lac of ability to do naval invasions and settle islands in the ocean.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
At least in the Civ universe
Selective design is good.
On another front I have just accidentally got myself a short term contract which means I will have to learn Java and get a small system up and running in two to three months. So I am not sure how much use I will be. We have not even gotten to the pay discussion, that's how accidental it is.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well i would like to help with the overall design. However if i had to pick on focusing on a single era I would want to focus on the Prehistoric and Galactic Era. They seem to need the most help since we have not made them before. I know Civ_Fuhrer is going to be doing ATOM for Civ5 so getting him working on the Galactic Era in this mod would be key to getting that era in.
Then we have people like Killtech which were really good at the upgrade chain stuff, and then GeneralStaff with his Early Buildings and Nukes. Overall I think each of us have some stuff we are good at and could contribute to the project with our own interests and specialties.
Remember everyone here is doing it voluntarily so its much easier to get them working on a part of the project they are passionate about than to assign them something they might not even want to work on. That's not to say we will not have to always like what we are contributing, I am just saying that it is much easier to get people to contribute if they wanted to make it in the first place.
Then we have people like Killtech which were really good at the upgrade chain stuff, and then GeneralStaff with his Early Buildings and Nukes. Overall I think each of us have some stuff we are good at and could contribute to the project with our own interests and specialties.
Remember everyone here is doing it voluntarily so its much easier to get them working on a part of the project they are passionate about than to assign them something they might not even want to work on. That's not to say we will not have to always like what we are contributing, I am just saying that it is much easier to get people to contribute if they wanted to make it in the first place.
Afforess
The White Wizard
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well it seems to me that the high priority items would be core stuff like ...
1. How many Eras and which ones? Before even even do the techs we need to agree on the eras.
2. New Factors such as Health, Water, Crime, Flammability, Garbage, etc. it much easier to include them from the beginning that it is to add them later.
3. Core Civics how will they work with the social policies? Will they be combine into one or be separate?
4. AI. It just really needs help in so many areas.
5. Civ4 Favorites such as revolutions or other factors that define RoM from other mods.
In addition I think we are actually dwelling too much on the combat and the whole 1UPT. In the long run i don't think it will matter either way if you have one unit or a stack. We know there are going to be units fighting each other and that's all we need to know right now for the wider picture.
We could always name it "Zivilization" for Zappara.
os79
Deity
What about this priority:
#1 AI always, from the start until the final version many years in future
#2 One tech per era each new version
#3 Extreme caution of additions of buildings/units. We want an intelligent flow of units. That mean we want to have unit upgrade paths to always be beautiful, even if we have to redo xml in order to do that.
#4 C++ features added in from time to time, and above priorities adjusted to best synthesize the new features.
#5 LUA features added in, ditto the above for this
#6 Translations, ongoing until the final version
That should be enough GENERAL! priorities. We will break each priority into practical goals later when we get skilled with modding and get more concise ideas.
#1 AI always, from the start until the final version many years in future
#2 One tech per era each new version
#3 Extreme caution of additions of buildings/units. We want an intelligent flow of units. That mean we want to have unit upgrade paths to always be beautiful, even if we have to redo xml in order to do that.
#4 C++ features added in from time to time, and above priorities adjusted to best synthesize the new features.
#5 LUA features added in, ditto the above for this
#6 Translations, ongoing until the final version
That should be enough GENERAL! priorities. We will break each priority into practical goals later when we get skilled with modding and get more concise ideas.
AI is one of my priorities.
Cool, can't wait, I'm sure the game will be hugely improved.. if you make ancient/medevil unable to hurt modern units and wooden ships unable to shoot down my jet fighters like in Civ 4 RoM that would be amazing too
... the stuff that needs to be fixed by modders really amazes me.. why the game ships with a frigate able to kill a jet is just beyond me.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
What do you mean by "beautiful"?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
I thing he means that they any new buildings etc should fit in nicely not breaking other parts of the mod and should fill a void. The latter is the easiest but making them "play nicely" with existing everything is harder.
os79
Deity
What Dancing Hoskuld said .
.AdamMorva
Chieftain
Hi Afforess, Zappara and the rest of the RoM crew,
I've just found out that you are doing a RoM for Civ5 and all I wanted to say:
YES,, YES. I love you guys. RoM: A New Dawn is the single best thing that happened to Civ4 and you'll hopefully make Civ5 enjoyable. The fate of the universe rests in your awesome coding skills.
I've just found out that you are doing a RoM for Civ5 and all I wanted to say:
YES,
, YES. I love you guys. RoM: A New Dawn is the single best thing that happened to Civ4 and you'll hopefully make Civ5 enjoyable. The fate of the universe rests in your awesome coding skills.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Well I think that's why we are planning stuff out now. So we can put lots of stuff in that all "play nicely" with each other. For example the Prehistoric Era stuff would ideally not effect the game play if you had started in the Ancient Era. However I think there should be some incentive to to play the Prehistoric Era. Perhaps it can give you some special tech or prerequisites for later things you could not otherwise obtain if you skipped that Era.
-------------------
Anywho I had another idea. I always loved the Assimilation feature in Civ4 AND where you get the special buildings and units that the city you took over had. However now we have the whole city state thing. Back when I was modding for Civ4 AND I was trying to implement a system where if you made a wonder you would get a naive tribe. Much like the Native Embassy system set up in "Age of Empire 3". However this city state system is even better!! If you take over a city state then depending upon what city state it is you can produce special units, buildings and maybe even gain access to hidden techs!
Here are some examples from "Age of Empire 3". Note that icons would be already created from these and possibly even stats! I also tried to get it as close to the original game as possible but some bonuses had to be changed for Civ. Feel free to change them or think of new ones.
City States as Native Tribes
Apache
Special Unit: Apache Cavalry (Replaces Calvary)
Techs:
- Apache Cactus (+1 Food from Desert tiles)
- Apache Raiders (200% More Gold from Pillaging)
- Apache Endurance (Apache Cavalry get +1 Movement)
Carib
Special Unit: Carib Blowgunner (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Carib Kasiri Beer (+10% gold from Brewery)
- Carib Garifuna Drums (Archers do 100% more damage vs workers)
- Carib Ambush Party (Explorers gain +50% attack)
Cherokee
Special Unit: Cherokee Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Cherokee War Dance (20% easier to gain relations with city states)
- Cherokee Basket Weaving (-50% cost of Markets)
- Sequoyah's Cherokee Syllabary (Get a free Settler)
Cheyenne
Special Unit: Cheyenne Rider (Replaces Horseman)
Techs:
- Cheyenne Hunting Grounds (+10% more Food from Deer Resource)
- Cheyenne Horse Trading (Calvary build 40% faster)
- Cheyenne Fury (Cheyenne Rider do +100% more damage vs Calvary)
Comanche
Special Unit: Comanche Horse Archer (Replaces Horse Archer)
Techs:
- Comanche Horse Breeding (Calvary +10% HP)
- Comanche Trade Language (+10% more foreign trade)
- Comanche Mustangs (Comanche Horse Archer get +1 Movement)
Cree
Special Units: Cree Tracker (Replaces Scout), Cree Coureur des Bois (Replaces Settler)
Techs:
- Cree Textile Craftsmanship (10% more Gold from Sheep Resource)
- Cree Kinship (Cree Tracker cost 50% less to build)
- Cree Tanning (Infantry and Calvary get +5% more HP)
Huron
Special Units: Huron Mantlet (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Huron Fish Wedding (10% more Food from Fish Resource)
- Huron Sun Ceremony (Huron Mantlet build 50% faster)
- Huron Trade Dominance (Produces a free Huron Mantlet every 10 turns up to 300 turns)
Incas
Special Units: Incan Bolas Warrior (Replaces Archer), Incan Huaminca (replaces Spearman)
Techs:
- Incan Road Building (Roads cost 50% less to build)
- Incan Metalworking (10% more Gold from Gold and Silver Resources)
- Incan Chasquis Messengers (Scouts get +1 Movement)
Klamath
Special Units: Klamath Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Klamath Strategy (Klamath Rifleman do 25% more damage)
- Klamath Huckleberry Feast (+1 Food to all cities)
- Klamath Work Ethos (Workers work 5% faster)
Mapuche
Special Units: Mapuche Ironwood Clubman (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Mapuche Ad-mapu (All Units cost are 20% cheaper to produce)
- Mapuche Tactics (Melee have +50% vs Siege Weapons)
- Mapuche Treaty of Quillin (+100 gold every 20 turns up to 300 turns)
Maya
Special Units: Maya Holcan Spearman (Replaces Spearman), Plumed Archer (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Mayan Cotton Armor (+20% HP for Melee)
- Mayan Calendar (+50% Food from Farms)
- Mayan Astronomy (Astronomy tech research cost 50% less)
Navajo
Special Units: Navajo Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Navajo Weaving (+10% more Gold from Cotton Resource)
- Navajo Shepherds (+10% more Gold from Sheep Resource)
- Navajo Craftsmanship (-10% Maintenance)
Nootka
Special Units: Nootka Clubman (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Nootka Bark Clothing (Workers get +50% HP)
- Nootka Potlatch (Nootka Clubman build 50% faster and 10% cheaper)
- Nootka Woodcarving (Fishing Boats cost 50% less to build)
Seminole
Special Units: Seminole Sharktooth Bowman (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Seminole Guerrilla Wars (Seminole Sharktooth Bowman +300% vs City Attack)
- Seminole Bowery (Archer attack +35%)
- Swamp People (Seminole Sharktooth Bowman get no movement penalty for Marshes/Bogs)
Tupi
Special Units: Tupi Blackwood Archer (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Tupi Poison Arrow Frogs (All archers +10% Damage)
- Tupi Animal Lore (100% vs Animal Units)
- Tupi Forest Burning (Workers clear/chop forest or jungle 50% Faster)
Zapotec
Special Units: Zapotec Lightning Warrior (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Zapotec Food of the Gods (Farms produce 10% more food)
- Zapotec Cult of the Dead (Zapotec Lightning Warrior do 20% more damage)
- Zapotec Cloud People (Hills give +1 Production)
There are more for the minor Asian and European civilizations but I will get to those later.
EDIT: Ok here are the other "tribes".
Bhakti Temple
Special Units: Tiger Claw (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Yoga (Melee units damage +5% more)
- Reinforced Gauntlets (Tiger Claws get +50% HP)
- Vegetarianism (Farms produce 40% more food)
Jesuit Temple
Special Units: Conquistador (Replaces Knight)
Techs:
- Flying Buttress (City +20% defenses)
- Smokeless Powder (Gunpowder Units have +30% attack)
- Christian School (+15% more research)
Shaolin Temple
Special Units: Rattan Shield (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Clenched Fists (Archers +25% vs Melee)
- Wood Clearing (Workers clear/chop forest 20% Faster)
- Dim Mark (Rattan Shield have 50% more damage)
Sufi Mosque
Special Units: War Elephant (Replaces War Elephant) [Needs a Better Unit]
Techs:
- Pilgrimage (Mosques cost 50% less to build)
- Fasting (Workers work 10% faster but -40% hit points)
- Sharia (Workers produce 50% faster)
Udasi Temple
Special Units: Chakram (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Sikh Gurus (Explorers get 50% more hit points and damage)
- Punjabi New Year (+10% more food from Rice Resource)
- Army of the Pure (Chakram can see 20% farther)
Zen Temple
Special Units: Sohei (Replaces Pikeman)
Techs:
- Zen Meditation (Meditation tech research cost 50% less)
- Master Lessons (Melee unit damage +10%)
- Meritocracy (Unit upgrades are 20% cheaper)
*phew* Ok so those were the rest I think.aybe not the best for a city state but perhaps a new type of map feature where diffrent regions can have their own far off temple in the middle or nowhere.
I think the bonuses need a lot of work but this gives something for us to work on and improve. I could totally see this done for other minor civilizations around the world.
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Anywho I had another idea. I always loved the Assimilation feature in Civ4 AND where you get the special buildings and units that the city you took over had. However now we have the whole city state thing. Back when I was modding for Civ4 AND I was trying to implement a system where if you made a wonder you would get a naive tribe. Much like the Native Embassy system set up in "Age of Empire 3". However this city state system is even better!! If you take over a city state then depending upon what city state it is you can produce special units, buildings and maybe even gain access to hidden techs!
Here are some examples from "Age of Empire 3". Note that icons would be already created from these and possibly even stats! I also tried to get it as close to the original game as possible but some bonuses had to be changed for Civ. Feel free to change them or think of new ones.
City States as Native Tribes
Apache
Special Unit: Apache Cavalry (Replaces Calvary)
Techs:
- Apache Cactus (+1 Food from Desert tiles)
- Apache Raiders (200% More Gold from Pillaging)
- Apache Endurance (Apache Cavalry get +1 Movement)
Carib
Special Unit: Carib Blowgunner (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Carib Kasiri Beer (+10% gold from Brewery)
- Carib Garifuna Drums (Archers do 100% more damage vs workers)
- Carib Ambush Party (Explorers gain +50% attack)
Cherokee
Special Unit: Cherokee Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Cherokee War Dance (20% easier to gain relations with city states)
- Cherokee Basket Weaving (-50% cost of Markets)
- Sequoyah's Cherokee Syllabary (Get a free Settler)
Cheyenne
Special Unit: Cheyenne Rider (Replaces Horseman)
Techs:
- Cheyenne Hunting Grounds (+10% more Food from Deer Resource)
- Cheyenne Horse Trading (Calvary build 40% faster)
- Cheyenne Fury (Cheyenne Rider do +100% more damage vs Calvary)
Comanche
Special Unit: Comanche Horse Archer (Replaces Horse Archer)
Techs:
- Comanche Horse Breeding (Calvary +10% HP)
- Comanche Trade Language (+10% more foreign trade)
- Comanche Mustangs (Comanche Horse Archer get +1 Movement)
Cree
Special Units: Cree Tracker (Replaces Scout), Cree Coureur des Bois (Replaces Settler)
Techs:
- Cree Textile Craftsmanship (10% more Gold from Sheep Resource)
- Cree Kinship (Cree Tracker cost 50% less to build)
- Cree Tanning (Infantry and Calvary get +5% more HP)
Huron
Special Units: Huron Mantlet (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Huron Fish Wedding (10% more Food from Fish Resource)
- Huron Sun Ceremony (Huron Mantlet build 50% faster)
- Huron Trade Dominance (Produces a free Huron Mantlet every 10 turns up to 300 turns)
Incas
Special Units: Incan Bolas Warrior (Replaces Archer), Incan Huaminca (replaces Spearman)
Techs:
- Incan Road Building (Roads cost 50% less to build)
- Incan Metalworking (10% more Gold from Gold and Silver Resources)
- Incan Chasquis Messengers (Scouts get +1 Movement)
Klamath
Special Units: Klamath Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Klamath Strategy (Klamath Rifleman do 25% more damage)
- Klamath Huckleberry Feast (+1 Food to all cities)
- Klamath Work Ethos (Workers work 5% faster)
Mapuche
Special Units: Mapuche Ironwood Clubman (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Mapuche Ad-mapu (All Units cost are 20% cheaper to produce)
- Mapuche Tactics (Melee have +50% vs Siege Weapons)
- Mapuche Treaty of Quillin (+100 gold every 20 turns up to 300 turns)
Maya
Special Units: Maya Holcan Spearman (Replaces Spearman), Plumed Archer (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Mayan Cotton Armor (+20% HP for Melee)
- Mayan Calendar (+50% Food from Farms)
- Mayan Astronomy (Astronomy tech research cost 50% less)
Navajo
Special Units: Navajo Rifleman (Replaces Rifleman)
Techs:
- Navajo Weaving (+10% more Gold from Cotton Resource)
- Navajo Shepherds (+10% more Gold from Sheep Resource)
- Navajo Craftsmanship (-10% Maintenance)
Nootka
Special Units: Nootka Clubman (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Nootka Bark Clothing (Workers get +50% HP)
- Nootka Potlatch (Nootka Clubman build 50% faster and 10% cheaper)
- Nootka Woodcarving (Fishing Boats cost 50% less to build)
Seminole
Special Units: Seminole Sharktooth Bowman (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Seminole Guerrilla Wars (Seminole Sharktooth Bowman +300% vs City Attack)
- Seminole Bowery (Archer attack +35%)
- Swamp People (Seminole Sharktooth Bowman get no movement penalty for Marshes/Bogs)
Tupi
Special Units: Tupi Blackwood Archer (Replaces Archer)
Techs:
- Tupi Poison Arrow Frogs (All archers +10% Damage)
- Tupi Animal Lore (100% vs Animal Units)
- Tupi Forest Burning (Workers clear/chop forest or jungle 50% Faster)
Zapotec
Special Units: Zapotec Lightning Warrior (Replaces Warrior)
Techs:
- Zapotec Food of the Gods (Farms produce 10% more food)
- Zapotec Cult of the Dead (Zapotec Lightning Warrior do 20% more damage)
- Zapotec Cloud People (Hills give +1 Production)
There are more for the minor Asian and European civilizations but I will get to those later.
EDIT: Ok here are the other "tribes".
Bhakti Temple
Special Units: Tiger Claw (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Yoga (Melee units damage +5% more)
- Reinforced Gauntlets (Tiger Claws get +50% HP)
- Vegetarianism (Farms produce 40% more food)
Jesuit Temple
Special Units: Conquistador (Replaces Knight)
Techs:
- Flying Buttress (City +20% defenses)
- Smokeless Powder (Gunpowder Units have +30% attack)
- Christian School (+15% more research)
Shaolin Temple
Special Units: Rattan Shield (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Clenched Fists (Archers +25% vs Melee)
- Wood Clearing (Workers clear/chop forest 20% Faster)
- Dim Mark (Rattan Shield have 50% more damage)
Sufi Mosque
Special Units: War Elephant (Replaces War Elephant) [Needs a Better Unit]
Techs:
- Pilgrimage (Mosques cost 50% less to build)
- Fasting (Workers work 10% faster but -40% hit points)
- Sharia (Workers produce 50% faster)
Udasi Temple
Special Units: Chakram (Replaces Swordsman)
Techs:
- Sikh Gurus (Explorers get 50% more hit points and damage)
- Punjabi New Year (+10% more food from Rice Resource)
- Army of the Pure (Chakram can see 20% farther)
Zen Temple
Special Units: Sohei (Replaces Pikeman)
Techs:
- Zen Meditation (Meditation tech research cost 50% less)
- Master Lessons (Melee unit damage +10%)
- Meritocracy (Unit upgrades are 20% cheaper)
*phew* Ok so those were the rest I think.aybe not the best for a city state but perhaps a new type of map feature where diffrent regions can have their own far off temple in the middle or nowhere.
I think the bonuses need a lot of work but this gives something for us to work on and improve. I could totally see this done for other minor civilizations around the world.
Would that be the Truth in Genesis place or Hovind's ridiculous dinosaur park? So far no dinosaur fossils have been found that are more recent than 65 Ma. Claiming otherwise is just wishful thinking at best.
I've thought also that we could use a new name for Civ 5 mod instead of using RoM again... though it's hard to think good alternative name
Rule the World? Kings and Emperors? One More Turn? Fabulous Freetime Killer? Another thing - I don't think you guys have realized how different the mod system is really in Civ 5... it's now just like Morrowind/Oblivion, ie. you can enable all kinds of mods at the same time thus there will be conflicts among mods that change the tech tree etc. It's like installing every mod into custom assets folder... I'm not sure if this is a good or bag thing really but it helps us in a way as we could release the mod as separate modules (like I mentioned earlier) and players could then choose what modules to use to create their own favorite game setup...
Edit: Made my first civ 5 mod with modbuddy
I like Fabulous Freetime Killer.I've thought also that we could use a new name for Civ 5 mod instead of using RoM again... though it's hard to think good alternative name
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