Darksaber1
Secret Emperor
Well, this went of topic. Like a chemical-train wreck.
Civ 5 Testers group ... AKA I HATE YOU GUYZ !!!
- Thread starter arcticnightwolf
- Start date
Wow! You cared about spaniards, even when you don't speak it?.
Indeed, they solved the WinXP crash. Now the funny part is that I get to the intro part, then the game CTD without crash report, nothing.
But mainly they solved the WinXP problem ASAP as I've read that some Spanish users were going to file a lawsuit againts 2K for fake advertisment, (Box says it supports WinXP on all languages).
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,448
Why? If the box says it works than it should work.
Otherwise you are cheating the people who bought it.
It's only fair that that the system protects the customer for once.
Otherwise you are cheating the people who bought it.
It's only fair that that the system protects the customer for once.
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
They did not fix it because a lawsuit was threatened. In fact, that was never mentioned in the tester forums.
They fixed it because they want to put out a good product.
They fixed it because they want to put out a good product.
Company-"Alright, our new game came out!"
Customer-"YESSSSSS......Oh wait, there's a glitch that makes it not work on certain setups!"
-"Ohhorsehocky, lemme fix that real quick..."
-"SUESUESUESUESUESUESUESUE"
-"Christ, we fixed it, calm the
down..."If they refused to fix it, THEN a lawsuit would be appropriate.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,448
You do know that they did not in fact sue.
They just threatened it. And in the end it does not matter.
It might have not even contributed, who knows. But the fact that the option exists is enough.
It is refreshing to hear that the customer can actually do something these days. Considering how we are being raped by companies that impose their whims on consumers. Especially in the PC game industry.
PPQ_Purple
Purple Cube
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2008
- Messages
- 5,448
So forcing steam is ok?
Ubisoft DRM is ok?
Releasing things with bugs galore (and civ 5 was on the better side compared to how some things come out) is ok?
Depraving the consumer of any quality (think Vista) is ok?
I can go on with this all day...
Pirating has nothing to do with it. Since it does not include customers at all.
Note that I made a distinction between customers and consumers and used the term customer. As in a consumer that actually paid.
Pirates often even get a superior product, since cracks tend to remove the idiotic DRM requirements. Sort of makes me, you (presumably) and anyone else honest look ******ed don't you think?
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
I'm just going to say one more thing: None of what you listed is forced on you. If you dislike what the developer does, do not purchase the product. Nothing is holding you down and forcing you to buy it; Ergo, the rape analogy is false.
With that said, let's drop the subject. Neither side is willing to budge at all, it is not a fruitful discussion, move it to the offtopic forums please.
With that said, let's drop the subject. Neither side is willing to budge at all, it is not a fruitful discussion, move it to the offtopic forums please.
EugeneStyles
Prince
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
- 307
This entire topic is off-topic. "I HATE YOU GUYZ FOR TESTING CIV V" has nothing to do with RifE...
Jester Fool
Emperor
I just figured it as a spam thread (interesting one though). Okay, back on topic. I hate you guyz for testing Civ V? Nope. Boring. Valk, what do you want to talk about in this thread?
Valkrionn
The Hamster King
Oh, I don't care at all. I'd just prefer to keep the arguments and flaming somewhere else; It's all been discussed to death in this thread. 
I have this image... And I like it.
It is only for video but I think the analogy works for games.
As it was once said, in many cases, pirated version have less drawbacks than bought versions (not counting the drawback of having to pay, but that cannot be considered a real drawback when you are paying the right price)
(ex : I bougth cIV when released... then years later I wanted BTS as FFH moved to BTS. But, as it was 1-2 years after BTS release (I had a "no-gaming year") the only BTS available on the market were BTS-warlord-cIV compilations for $40+. Well I could find BTS alone on US market.. but with $5-$10 shipping and handling costs.
Why would I buy a new, out of the industries box, version? it costs more, impose that I get warlords and cIV ...
In the end I bought an e-bay, already used, version, $15 but I got BTS and cIV... that I already had.)
It would have been really really 1) quicker, 2) easier, (3) cheaper) to DL a pirated version (that would even already have the 3.17 patch in the .rar achive and thus I wouldn't have to dl it). (well, steam would have been as efficient If I had it... but I don't)
So, maybe if the industry was willing to sell "pirated-quality" version... why not ?
joking aside, developped piracy is a by-product of the internet. But even before the internet you found pirated games/videos on the black-market.
I'd rather the companies learn to be better than pirated versions than try to DRM me to death (and steam is a drm. thus I don't like it even if I will have to learn to live with it).
(as a side note, Blizzard did it very well for WoW.... but I think they are trying to us with SC.)
It is only for video but I think the analogy works for games.
As it was once said, in many cases, pirated version have less drawbacks than bought versions (not counting the drawback of having to pay, but that cannot be considered a real drawback when you are paying the right price)
(ex : I bougth cIV when released... then years later I wanted BTS as FFH moved to BTS. But, as it was 1-2 years after BTS release (I had a "no-gaming year") the only BTS available on the market were BTS-warlord-cIV compilations for $40+. Well I could find BTS alone on US market.. but with $5-$10 shipping and handling costs.
Why would I buy a new, out of the industries box, version? it costs more, impose that I get warlords and cIV ...
In the end I bought an e-bay, already used, version, $15 but I got BTS and cIV... that I already had.)
It would have been really really 1) quicker, 2) easier, (3) cheaper) to DL a pirated version (that would even already have the 3.17 patch in the .rar achive and thus I wouldn't have to dl it). (well, steam would have been as efficient If I had it... but I don't)
So, maybe if the industry was willing to sell "pirated-quality" version... why not ?
joking aside, developped piracy is a by-product of the internet. But even before the internet you found pirated games/videos on the black-market.
I'd rather the companies learn to be better than pirated versions than try to DRM me to death (and steam is a drm. thus I don't like it even if I will have to learn to live with it).
(as a side note, Blizzard did it very well for WoW.... but I think they are trying to
us with SC.)Attachments
EugeneStyles
Prince
- Joined
- May 21, 2007
- Messages
- 307
False. Steam is not DRM. Steam is a distribution method. Steam may include or facilitate DRM, but that's separate. In the rest of your post, you talk about the inconveniences associated with being a real paying customer of a legitimate product (which I agree with... it's stupid to harrass your legitimate customers that much). Steam, even when the product does include DRM, doesn't really apply because it's more convenient than other ways of buying a product (and in most cases, more convenient than pirating - I get notified of specials and new releases, I have my info already loaded into my account - most of the time, it's click and play, couldn't be simpler).
Does it come with the drawback of losing right of first sale? Yes, that is a drawback. Does it facilitate the use of DRM? I guess so, though I'm not sure how it does so anymore than you could do with physical media. But one thing you can't call it is inconvenient...
Eugenstyle.
My mistake. Steam is not a DRM. but it is a DRM-like tool.
you add a third party program in your PC ; your ownership of the game is not full. if your account is deleted for any reason, you lose your game ownership ; if you lose your internet connection, can you play ? can you re-install the game ? (for a mutiplayer / online game you have to have internet, but for a 1player game ?) ?
Can your brother play with your game (on your own PC) if you don't want to give him your steam account ?....etc. Can you install the game on multiples PC in the same house network to play a multiplayer LAN without having to have multiples accounts of the game ?
...etc
Can you resell / or give/loan the game to somebody else ?. (this is one of the important caracteristation of property rights.) (EDIT, I searched and found that it was what you call "right of first sale") IMO, such a negation of a basic individual right is a major drawback.
If I have not "first-sale right", I'm not an owner ; thus it becomes a lease, with no rent as I pay only once.
As it is an infinit lease, shouldn't I be offered a partial refund price if I give back the product quickly ? (the refund price being an rough inversed proportion of the duration I used the product)
Does that happen ? no.
Then, what is the legal definition of the transaction between me and steam ? not a lease, not a sale... not a rent, not a subscription...etc
What are the legal rights and consummer guaranties for such a not-sale/not-rent transaction...etc
if a game is distributed only through steam, it is a monoploy of distribution, and I hate monopolies.
Where you are right ithat it has few of the harassement of standard DRM, but it has other drawback. Those are not immediatly perceptible and maybe are never thought about by most peoples. But In the end, maybe those are worse in a way.
And remember that different countries have different laws ; thus, the transaction through steam has different legal meaning in the US than in France, Spain, Germany, China, Japan...etc
My mistake. Steam is not a DRM. but it is a DRM-like tool.
you add a third party program in your PC ; your ownership of the game is not full. if your account is deleted for any reason, you lose your game ownership ; if you lose your internet connection, can you play ? can you re-install the game ? (for a mutiplayer / online game you have to have internet, but for a 1player game ?) ?
Can your brother play with your game (on your own PC) if you don't want to give him your steam account ?....etc. Can you install the game on multiples PC in the same house network to play a multiplayer LAN without having to have multiples accounts of the game ?
...etc
Can you resell / or give/loan the game to somebody else ?. (this is one of the important caracteristation of property rights.) (EDIT, I searched and found that it was what you call "right of first sale") IMO, such a negation of a basic individual right is a major drawback.
If I have not "first-sale right", I'm not an owner ; thus it becomes a lease, with no rent as I pay only once.
As it is an infinit lease, shouldn't I be offered a partial refund price if I give back the product quickly ? (the refund price being an rough inversed proportion of the duration I used the product)
Does that happen ? no.
Then, what is the legal definition of the transaction between me and steam ? not a lease, not a sale... not a rent, not a subscription...etc
What are the legal rights and consummer guaranties for such a not-sale/not-rent transaction...etc
if a game is distributed only through steam, it is a monoploy of distribution, and I hate monopolies.
Where you are right ithat it has few of the harassement of standard DRM, but it has other drawback. Those are not immediatly perceptible and maybe are never thought about by most peoples. But In the end, maybe those are worse in a way.
And remember that different countries have different laws ; thus, the transaction through steam has different legal meaning in the US than in France, Spain, Germany, China, Japan...etc
Just my two cents: I bought Half-life 2 the day it came out - love that game. Years later, I bought The Orange Box, which comes with a copy of half-life 2. Steam noticed that I 'owned' two copies and allowed me to gift the full game to anyone I knew.
They certainly didn't have to do that, and they gained a lot of goodwill with that act. Valve is not the perfect company, but they are a pretty damn good one.
They certainly didn't have to do that, and they gained a lot of goodwill with that act. Valve is not the perfect company, but they are a pretty damn good one.
Similar threads
