Civ Discussion - Silla

Please do. I couldn't test it in antiquity since I could not get any allies. I had 1 ally sent a trade route to a non-capital in exploration age, but didn't see any change upon slotting this tradition.

Worked in exploration for me; got a trade route coming into Daegu worth 18 gold, after slotting the tradition I got extra production and food to match:
1759619499956.png


Some thoughts, now that I finished antiquity.

First off, I did not appreciate how Sangdaedeung (the merchant) works - I thought it's a minimum of 5 gold when neutral, and then 10 at friendly and 15 at helpful, but no, it's +5 per a rating point. That means that at the maximum relationship (90), plopping down a trade route generates 450 gold. Combined with the diplomacy points they can put out, and the extra trade range and resource slots they get, I was happily spamming the routes to every allied settlement and city state I could find. I ended up with 37/20 economic score as a result, four well-developed cities, five towns with all the warehouse buildings, and the highest combined gold, science & culture per turn I've seen yet (though playing science Himiko definitely helped with those, too).

Secondly, this was definitely the best case scenario I could have - I shared my continent with Ibn Battuta and Jose Rizal, both extremely easy to befriend, so after disposing of a couple of naughty indepent powers, I could ignore military development completely and focus on city building. I feel they need that kind of start, because best parts of their kit do not carry over; automatic trade routes between capitals, extra trade range, extra slots in towns are all crucial to making their kit work, so you need to get a good starting state into exploration, cause the actual traditions won't help much. They're a bit like Normans in that regard.

Thirdly, their unique district is excellent, both in terms of the results and in the requirements - getting a spot that's both rough terrain and surrounded by mountains or natural wonders is far from guaranteed, so it pushes you into some interesting decisions. Do you want the extra resource slot, or the extra influence? If you don't have the mountains or wonders, how much adjacency can you generate with wonders? It feels nice to play it, given that influence is the reward. It also makes getting spots like this feel really good:
1759620271125.png

Lastly, they will be very volatile civ to play, I reckon. Relying not just on getting lasting alliances, but also alliances that result into trade routes beyond antiquity, is very finnicky - but if you can get them, that extra food and production can really superchange you. On the flipside, if you find yourself on the receiving end of a warring neighbor, there's very little to help you. So still no idea how strong they really are. But they are fun.
 
the golden road is quite strong for science so is the gold per resource. to be able to build emille bell early is nice. i played as isabella so you have a lot of gold to buy settlers and only do 1 war to get another capital so you have loads of targets to trade. the range unit is very strong offensive but a bit weak in defence. but i fought vs egypt who can walk over rivers so the movement did not really pay out. they are not as strong as pietati archers in civ 6 since rough terrain stops them from attacking. nonetheless they managed to take out egypt early and they are normally among the harder civs to target.
also i feel like all the extra gold helps you to get 3 cities faster to compete with science on deity. on marathon culture is really hard to compete in. despite u getting culture for kills.
 
I enjoyed my game with them well enough but there aren't any aspects of their kit jumping out at me to convince me they're not just outclassed as an antiquity culture/diplo pick by Greece. Hwarang strategies could be interesting with leaders who buff cavalry.
 
Worked in exploration for me; got a trade route coming into Daegu worth 18 gold, after slotting the tradition I got extra production and food to match:
View attachment 744249

Some thoughts, now that I finished antiquity.

First off, I did not appreciate how Sangdaedeung (the merchant) works - I thought it's a minimum of 5 gold when neutral, and then 10 at friendly and 15 at helpful, but no, it's +5 per a rating point. That means that at the maximum relationship (90), plopping down a trade route generates 450 gold. Combined with the diplomacy points they can put out, and the extra trade range and resource slots they get, I was happily spamming the routes to every allied settlement and city state I could find. I ended up with 37/20 economic score as a result, four well-developed cities, five towns with all the warehouse buildings, and the highest combined gold, science & culture per turn I've seen yet (though playing science Himiko definitely helped with those, too).

Secondly, this was definitely the best case scenario I could have - I shared my continent with Ibn Battuta and Jose Rizal, both extremely easy to befriend, so after disposing of a couple of naughty indepent powers, I could ignore military development completely and focus on city building. I feel they need that kind of start, because best parts of their kit do not carry over; automatic trade routes between capitals, extra trade range, extra slots in towns are all crucial to making their kit work, so you need to get a good starting state into exploration, cause the actual traditions won't help much. They're a bit like Normans in that regard.

Thirdly, their unique district is excellent, both in terms of the results and in the requirements - getting a spot that's both rough terrain and surrounded by mountains or natural wonders is far from guaranteed, so it pushes you into some interesting decisions. Do you want the extra resource slot, or the extra influence? If you don't have the mountains or wonders, how much adjacency can you generate with wonders? It feels nice to play it, given that influence is the reward. It also makes getting spots like this feel really good:
View attachment 744250
Lastly, they will be very volatile civ to play, I reckon. Relying not just on getting lasting alliances, but also alliances that result into trade routes beyond antiquity, is very finnicky - but if you can get them, that extra food and production can really superchange you. On the flipside, if you find yourself on the receiving end of a warring neighbor, there's very little to help you. So still no idea how strong they really are. But they are fun.

I played through to give them a real chance, and they definitely pair super well with Himiko. Being able to accept every endeavor gives you the leg up you need to stay friendly. I played on a standard map and got my 3 allies in antiquity, before I ran into a little trouble before Freddy decided to really shake up the world. In the end, I joined Freddy in a war, but then the next turn when that brought in my allies I had to break up with 2 of them. Although thankfully I could stay friendly with both, so as long as it doesn't end up making me choose in that conflict anytime in the near future, I think it will work out well for me.

But yeah, getting +450 gold relatively early in antiquity is such a crazy bonus. And yeah, despite the preview of the policy card not working, my capital is one of the best production antiquity capitals ever because of those routes to it. It will be curious to see how the exploration works with them, because agreed at a glance their traditions are really going to struggle. I don't use that many trade outposts, so I can't imagine that a couple gold and influence will ever be valuable to me. Science from imported resources at least is a nice little semi-passive bonus though, and being able to get like +6 or +8 happiness in each town just from an altar or temple actually can be pretty huge in going above settlement limits.

The civ on the whole is very hit or miss. I tried them last week, and basically ended up friends with nobody and fighting wars on both sides of my continent. It's the only game I ended up abandoning after getting some decent action in, because I got to the exploration age and was being attacked on multiple sides with really no way to fight it all off. They'll be a lot better in the future if they give a way to not basically be forced to join allied wars, and you can actually thread the needle diplomatically.
 
Hello Civ Fans,

Regarding Silla do you need to play friendly or neutral so you can get the trade routes set up quickly? Alliances take a long time to form for me at least so i don't see the bonus so much from Silla. Doesn't seem like you want take out any cities but always be friendly. That is going to war defeats the bonuses from playing Silla?

All thoughts are welcomed.

Brew God
 
You can get to alliance faster by offering or supporting endeavors. Also always offer friendly greeting in the early game. It's best to pick who you will have a hard time allying with for war.
 
They seem solid enough from the one game I've played with them, but I have a hard time imagining myself picking them over Greece for diplo games, or Aksum or Mississippi for economic games.
 
Short question: whereto are the +food and +production granted once one has the policy card "Strategic Allies" equipped? Which cities / towns do profit by them?
 
Short question: whereto are the +food and +production granted once one has the policy card "Strategic Allies" equipped? Which cities / towns do profit by them?
Presumably the settlement the trade route is sent to. (you get trade income from trade routes that your allies send to you to get your resources..not ones you send to your allies to get their resources)
 
I tried Silla again... And found the AI makes this Civ really hard to work with. 2 games I had a friendly AI that I started working towards allying. Agenda that matched, good relations. Things going up... Then the AI decdies to start forward settling, espionaging or rejecting overtures for no reason. And there goes all the alliance abilities Silla has... This is the most frustrating civ design in the game IMO.
 
I tried Silla again... And found the AI makes this Civ really hard to work with. 2 games I had a friendly AI that I started working towards allying. Agenda that matched, good relations. Things going up... Then the AI decdies to start forward settling, espionaging or rejecting overtures for no reason. And there goes all the alliance abilities Silla has... This is the most frustrating civ design in the game IMO.

It's really hard to play a civ that relies on other people to do stuff. You can be going great, and then all of a sudden, things break out into chaos. Or you have games where you maybe want to play for chaos, but it's all sunshine and lollipops
 
It's really hard to play a civ that relies on other people to do stuff. You can be going great, and then all of a sudden, things break out into chaos. Or you have games where you maybe want to play for chaos, but it's all sunshine and lollipops
I was venting somewhat. But it's very difficult to plan around abilities like theirs...

And you only get a single age to get it right. Over the longer arc of a game their abilities would probably be less frustrating (Himiko works a lot better for example)
 
Well they only have 2 “ally” abilities (3 if you count the relationship bonus merchant) and one is a Tradition. So you have a while to benefit from it.
 
Last edited:
Well they only have 2 “ally” abilities (3if you count the relationship binus merchant) and one is a Tradition. So you have a while to benefit from it.
True but not all abilities are made equal. Especially in Silla's case.
 
At least their tradition is guaranteed to work if they get an ally in that age, but getting an ally is not a guarantee by any means.
 
I tried Silla again... And found the AI makes this Civ really hard to work with. 2 games I had a friendly AI that I started working towards allying. Agenda that matched, good relations. Things going up... Then the AI decdies to start forward settling, espionaging or rejecting overtures for no reason. And there goes all the alliance abilities Silla has... This is the most frustrating civ design in the game IMO.
It definitely irks me that the AI can tank a relationship with you through their own actions with no input from the player. I feel like I should at least get some say as to whether or not I'm all that upset about them settling a certain spot or failing to spy on me. It is definitely frustrated to try and put a bunch of work into making a friend only to see them do everything they can to hurt the relationship.

This is one place where I feel the game should easily be able to improve - I should be able to spend influence to prevent the AI from spying/forward settling/converting my towns for X amount of turns.
 
It definitely irks me that the AI can tank a relationship with you through their own actions with no input from the player. I feel like I should at least get some say as to whether or not I'm all that upset about them settling a certain spot or failing to spy on me. It is definitely frustrated to try and put a bunch of work into making a friend only to see them do everything they can to hurt the relationship.

This is one place where I feel the game should easily be able to improve - I should be able to spend influence to prevent the AI from spying/forward settling/converting my towns for X amount of turns.
There should definitely be some more options like the Greeting… they can spend influence to counter it but if you spend enough the relationship won’t get worse.
 
It definitely irks me that the AI can tank a relationship with you through their own actions with no input from the player. I feel like I should at least get some say as to whether or not I'm all that upset about them settling a certain spot or failing to spy on me. It is definitely frustrated to try and put a bunch of work into making a friend only to see them do everything they can to hurt the relationship.

This is one place where I feel the game should easily be able to improve - I should be able to spend influence to prevent the AI from spying/forward settling/converting my towns for X amount of turns.
I think it's one of the genuinely interesting design decisions of Civ 7; in Civ 6, it was very easy to passively keep friends forever past a certain point. Even if they forward settled you, you had ways of taking their cities without violence or upset. And I definitely gravitated towards playing either all-out war or entirely peaceful games past the first 80-odd turns. But - bearing in mind what Civ games try to emulate - that's not really how things go with real empires, and it also makes for a somewhat safe and predictable game. As a player, we might not mind getting spied on (I appreciate it, honestly, it's free influence). But it's fine if the game model says that the citizens of our empire to; it pushes for a more volatile diplomacy by design, and can occassionally create interesting scenarios. It gives us a reason to maintain an army even when at peace, like any empire would.

Definitely fair to say that it makes for a very volatile civ design for Silla, definitely worth docking them some points for it. They're nowhere near the best - but I think diplomacy on the whole was meant to shake things up, and it has shook things up.
 
I think for me part of the problem is how schizophrenic the AI can seem. The amount of times an AI sends me an endeavour, I support it, send one back and they reject it... It's tough to balance the AI being too loyal versus being too cut-throat, but at the moment the AI feels more chaotic than either...
 
I think for me part of the problem is how schizophrenic the AI can seem. The amount of times an AI sends me an endeavour, I support it, send one back and they reject it... It's tough to balance the AI being too loyal versus being too cut-throat, but at the moment the AI feels more chaotic than either...
That does seem wasteful…sending then rejecting wastes more of their influence than just sending and accepting or not sending to begin with.
 
Back
Top Bottom