CIV - iks!

[Albow]

I was just wondering if we know anything more specific about Civics yet? Like, what sort of bonuses will they deliver? (I know that emancipation increases unhappiness in other civs with slaves), but do we know anything else?

Like, will free market give more money and trade, or more production? or less health? what??

ALSO:

I'm worried! It sounds like although there are 5 options in each category, you only get them slowly as tech progresses. This means, although eventually you will have lots of choice and flexibility, in ancient era you will be stuck with very limited options!! ARGH!

I also hope they don't make a certain combination kick ass, so that eventually you only select a set (just like now, in Civ, you only really choose Comm for war and Demo for peace) - I'd hate to see it turn into choose XYZ each and every time, cos XYZ is the best combo ...

My $0.02

 

[Invisible Rhino]

I agree. I actually like how it is in civ 3 where you have benefits and advantages to each one. I mean, if it is completely customizable does that mean we can make a democarcy with no war weariness or a facism without xenophobia and intolerance? I hope not. But we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[ainwood]

One problem with the existing governments is that there is often a 'one size fits all' approach where you (often) go to republic and stay in it for ever.

One thing I really hope is that the number of civics options really remove this one size fits all mentality. Each will hav strengths and weaknesses, so that you will be more inclined to change as the game progresses.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

You're right of course, Ainwood. There was nothing more frustrating than being in the Industrial/Modern Age and seeing that ALL nations were either Democracy, if at peace, or Communism if at war. Even if you modded the game to have over half a dozen new governments in that age, it still tended to come done to these two choices. Civics opens up ALL new options in the game IMO.
Also, the fact that different AI's favour different Civics options means that we will probably see more variety in 'governments' throughout the game.
Also, to put minds at ease, I am almost certain that choices in one Civic area will probably disallow a choice in another civic area.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[mastertyguy]

My opinion is that, in the same situation, the AI will tend to use always the same civics.

 

[warpstorm]

If properly implemented each choice would have plusses and minuses.

 

[Midwinter]

Well, it worked okay in SMAC. Dem\Planned was great for pop-booming, Dem\FM\Wealth for cash, Fundy was good when at war, and Dem\Green for when you got large and needed the efficiency. Santiago would sometimes take PS early on, while PS\Planned was the best choice for Yang... Zak, however, could never take Fundy, even when at war.

If done in a similar way, it should end up with different options being better for various situations, with certain civs finding certain options better for them (eg, going Dem early was usually good, but it killed Morgan, was impossible for Yang, wasn't always the option of choice for Santiago, and could have been left in place of Fundy for anyone embroiled in an early-ish war).

I'm hoping certain civs will have Civics options they can't (or very rarely) take, as well as ones they're pre-disposed towards. I'm also looking forward to a potential 5x5 set of government options, as opposed to 4x4 (3x4, really, given how far up the tech tree the Future Society options were).

However, I'd love some more specific information as to what they'll be\do.

 

[Albow]

Midwinter:

That, is, at the core, my concern! Is it really gonna be 5x5? (my guess is no, esp if Aussie is right and some choices block others) - in which case, you really get right back to Dem v Com!! ARGH! Because you'll have to choose civic options A,B,C for peace and XYZ for war! Why is that any more flexible, its the same, and just as disappointing ...

I'm hoping that the decisions are far more reaching than simply war vs peace and that civics can give ad and dis in a whole host of areas ...

 

[Thunderfall]

Here is the civics screen I captured from the GameReactor video:

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Thanks for that Thunderfall, though it IS very hard to make out any details!

@Albow. When I said some might mutually exlude others, I simply refered to the MOST extreme selections-and even THIS may not prove to be the case. I am sure that it will be possible to have a Democracy which both suppresses religious freedom AND engages in slavery, just as I am sure that you will be able to have a Communist State which has freedom of speech and an emancipated population. We also know that these choices WILL have a much more wide-ranging impact than what is good for war and what is good for peace.
The point, though, is that rather than have a '1-size fits all' government type-as you had in Civ1-3, we can now tailor governments in very particular ways. This will prove MUCH more flexible and open to variety than the previous system, IMHO.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Meleager]

Hopefully with 5*5*5*5*5 (thats 3125) options it wont be a problem. I wonder how anarchy will work? 1 turn anarchy for every point you move a slider?

 

[kitsquad]

Hopefully with 5*5*5*5*5 (thats 3125) options it wont be a problem. I wonder how anarchy will work? 1 turn anarchy for every point you move a slider?

u mean work stoppages

 

[Meleager]

yep I mean work stoppages. They change from slavery to emacap... (argh freedom) so all the slaves decided to have a holiday for a few turns before they go back to work

 

[PriestOfDiscord]

Hopefully with 5*5*5*5*5 (thats 3125) options it wont be a problem.

I wonder (as with everything else in the game) how modable this is. In SMAC the social engineering system, like everything else about that game, was pretty set into stone. Hopefully Firaxis will allow modders (and the inevitable future expansion packs) to add even more options into the civics system.

 

[Meleager]

more than 3125 options? Crikey! I feel sorry for the poor AI trying to figure it all out.

 

[GoodGame]

I was just wondering if we know anything more specific about Civics yet? Like, what sort of bonuses will they deliver? (I know that emancipation increases unhappiness in other civs with slaves), but do we know anything else?

Like, will free market give more money and trade, or more production? or less health? what??

lol

Time will tell .... time will tell.



A

LSO:

I'm worried! It sounds like although there are 5 options in each category, you only get them slowly as tech progresses. This means, although eventually you will have lots of choice and flexibility, in ancient era you will be stuck with very limited options!! ARGH!

I also hope they don't make a certain combination kick ass, so that eventually you only select a set (just like now, in Civ, you only really choose Comm for war and Demo for peace) - I'd hate to see it turn into choose XYZ each and every time, cos XYZ is the best combo ...

My $0.02

For the realism side of the house, the ancients shouldn't have oodles of choices. Something like monarcy, despotism, tribal, city-states is about all they need. City-state federation (league) and Repulic/Empire for late bronze/early iron age. Free market won't exist for a long while if a stable monarchy is needed to invent the money for it in the first place.

Some early religions might spawn some interesting political philosophies, OTOH.

With probably 4-5 choices per civic at least, there'll be like 12 to 20 possible government configs, not counting mods.

 

[GoodGame]

With probably 4-5 choices per civic at least, there'll be like 12 to 20 possible government configs, not counting mods.

So on a bell curve with like 10% of the choices being optimal, there probably will be 2 to 3 'governments' that will be all-weather best. But it'll probably work that the others will be best for managing phases in a civ's development.

 

[GoodGame]

So on a bell curve with like 10% of the choices being optimal, there probably will be 2 to 3 'governments' that will be all-weather best. But it'll probably work that the others will be best for managing phases in a civ's development.

Oops sorry for displaying bad probability theory.

It'd be like 5 to the 5th power.

 

[Meleager]

3125 choices - already stated

 

[Albow]

I agree that not all options should be available right from the start, obviously. In ancient age, however, they knew what democracy was, and what communal living was - these concepts aren't just modern world. What is modern is mass society ... so I'd want to see at least some choices opening up quickly.

I'm really looking forward to this aspect. Keep posting when you find new info!