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Civ Illustrated #1 (Know Your Enemy)

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Kaitzilla, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Usually I play without vassal states. I knew that the whole vassal state thing is broken, just did not know how bad it actually is.
     
  2. Folket

    Folket Chieftain

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    I think it would be more broken if vassals refused to trade with their masters. I really do not understand why you think this is broken.
     
  3. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    I did not mean trading. Its mechanichs is weird and even illogical at times. Besides, AI plays by different rules that give it huge advantage. Similar to espionage - almost useless on higher difficulty levels.
     
  4. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    I have some issues with vassals too, particularly the auto-DOWs when somebody you are not at war with, maybe even sharing a way with, gets a vassal. But this auto-friendly status makes sense. Also important to notice that it only happens with peace vassals.
     
  5. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    Yeah, that wonderful feeling when your enemy won't capitulate but will peace-vassal to someone big, who already has some vassals...
     
  6. Pangaea

    Pangaea Rock N Roller

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    Yep. Like that beast you're trying your best not to annoy because they'd crush you. Then the horns...
     
  7. intutama

    intutama Chieftain

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    I think it would be nice if there were some diplomatic feedback for vassalization. Maybe a weak AI could contact you and say "We've begun pourparlers with the Zulu... Soon our new master will crush you!" just so you know they're going to get vassalized on the next turn.
     
  8. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    @Kaitzilla Could you possibly update the "Resist Capitulating" parts based on the new found info from latest SGOTM. Instead of the x/10 value, it could show directly the multiplier of average power they need to be below. The current numbers don't really give any info, except that some are easier and some are harder to capitulate.
     
    sampsa likes this.
  9. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    America!
    Don't have a lot of time right now, but I will change this as you've suggested.
    Probably another link.
     
  10. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    I DOWed on the previous turn and Hatty is already willing to capitulate. There hasn't even been much fighting yet. That's really weird because usually even the most prone to cap/vassal would only cap after loosing a couple of cities. What could have caused that? Is there something special about Hatty regarding capitulation? Haven't played with her much.
    May be its just power ratio (>2.07)? Usually I don't have that much power.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    I've capped AIs without ever taking a city..in fact in some cases I specifically don't make efforts to attack their borders. I just wait for them to send units and kill them off. It boils down to war success, power ratio, and leader's willingness to capitulate. I don't know the exact calculations.. some here sure do..but Hatty has a high willingness. Your power is more than ample for the cause. So you probably won enough battles initially to put her over the edge....stealing workers counts too.
     
  12. WastinTime

    WastinTime Chieftain Supporter

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    You need 40 war success points
    10 = city capture
    4 = unit kill
    3 = (I think) is a defensive win
    1 = additional units that got killed automatically (galley in a city, 2nd worker on a tile, etc.)

    So if you take a city with archer, galley, settler in it, you get 16 war success (10 city + 4 archer + 1 galley + 1 settler)
     
  13. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    I captured a few workers and probably killed ~10 combat units (mostly the ones that attacked my SoD), thats roughly 40 points. Never calculated such stuff, and it just did not feel like much. Probably, because total kills count was nearing 300... I'm never going to play large map again. The amount of fighting and every turn routine is insane and I'm going to have ~30 more cities in the end:crazyeye:
    Then there all sorts of problems that you'll never have on a smaller map, like keeping Mansa trading when you have -7 from 'you declared war on our friend'.
     
  14. Anysense

    Anysense Chieftain

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    How come I can bribe Mansa at annoyed? Does "aggressive AI" affect bribing thresholds? Another curious thing: Cathy being my vassal and the worst enemy of Mansa does not stop him trading with me. Would he trade if he was furious with Cathy?
    Spoiler :
    Civ4ScreenShot1183.JPG
    Civ4ScreenShot1184.JPG
     
  15. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    While we're at it, does anyone have a sheet telling the minimum number of turns you have to wait before each AI is willing to talk?

    @Anysense what you see is most likely due to Mansa's attitude towards your vassals -- he is actually cautious towards you, not annoyed. Looks like a nice game.
     
  16. elitetroops

    elitetroops Chieftain

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    Not really a sheet, you need a formula that takes into account your war success, their war success and their iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold value from leaderheadinfos.xml (or whatever that file is called).

    RefuseDuration = iRefuseToTalkWarThreshold * {20+(80*AIWarSuccess*2/HumanSuccess)}/100

    The xml variable varies between 5 (De Gaulle) and 12 (Sitting Bull), with most leaders at 6, 8 or 10.

    Formula only applies if you declared war. If they declare on you, double the duration.
     
  17. Pedro78

    Pedro78 Chieftain

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    Explains a lot of things. Thanks!
     

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